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Profile Siran d'Vel'nahr
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Message 1602555 - Posted: 19 Nov 2014, 15:43:19 UTC - in response to Message 1602534.  

Greetings Gents,

Something new has come to my attention on this topic. More on that in a bit. First of all:

[ snip ]

Here's the new thing:

My light is no longer on steady without any flickering. Why, you ask? Got me! But here's what happened. There was 1 Microsoft update this morning so I ran it. It required a re-boot (usually a single update does not, from my experience) so I re-booted. Voila! I'm now thinking that perhaps there was a problem with a previous Microsoft update and this single one fixed that. Possible?

Thanks for all the ideas guys, I'll let you know if this thing goes back to being lit solid or if this issue has been resolved.

Keep on BOINCing...! :)



One of my business partners is VERY untechnical (and the business is of a technical type!). When a client calls in with an issue and the call gets to him, his first suggestion is always 'Have your tried rebooting your PC?'

;-)

Greetings PKnowles,

Yep, one would be surprised as to how re-booting a PC can cure some ills. But, the question one would have to ask oneself is: "What caused the ill to begin with?"

Re-booting was about the third thing I tried in order to fix this ill. By the way, the light is still acting normally since that Microsoft update and re-boot this morning. That's been at least 5 hours now. Woohoo! :)

If the light is still acting normally, after 24 hours, I would say this ill has been cured. ;)

Keep on BOINCing...! :)
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Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
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Message 1602574 - Posted: 19 Nov 2014, 16:34:53 UTC - in response to Message 1602534.  

One of my business partners is VERY untechnical (and the business is of a technical type!). When a client calls in with an issue and the call gets to him, his first suggestion is always 'Have your tried rebooting your PC?'

Well, actually that's what one should try as a first thing, it fixes at least 95% of all computer problems. I wouldn't spend time on anything else before I've tried that.
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Message 1602603 - Posted: 19 Nov 2014, 17:57:59 UTC

Greetings Gents,

Well, bad news. The light is solid again, no flicker to indicate disk read/write. I surmise that the Microsoft update had nothing to do with the issue or the temporary fix. It's back to my original theory of the controller... :(

My plan of getting a new MB and CPU is still on, just more urgently than earlier this morning.

Thanks guys! :)

Keep on BOINCing...! :)
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
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Message 1602619 - Posted: 19 Nov 2014, 18:27:46 UTC

I did not specify in my suggestion that there was a disc in the optical drive, or that the drive was even being used. All I said is that the light is on when there is a pending, "active" I/O operation on the controller. That could be as simple as the controller asking the optical drive "hey, are you still there? Are you available for access/use if I need you?" If the drive doesn't respond, that is an I/O request that is still in progress, and the light will be on.

As I said at the end of my post.. try unplugging the SATA cable for the optical drive. See if that resolves the issue. Could just be the optical drive, never know until you rule it out.
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Message 1602664 - Posted: 19 Nov 2014, 19:56:35 UTC - in response to Message 1602619.  

I did not specify in my suggestion that there was a disc in the optical drive, or that the drive was even being used. All I said is that the light is on when there is a pending, "active" I/O operation on the controller. That could be as simple as the controller asking the optical drive "hey, are you still there? Are you available for access/use if I need you?" If the drive doesn't respond, that is an I/O request that is still in progress, and the light will be on.

As I said at the end of my post.. try unplugging the SATA cable for the optical drive. See if that resolves the issue. Could just be the optical drive, never know until you rule it out.

Greetings,

Oops! My bad. :( That was meant for BilBg. He had asked if there was a disk in the drive.

The thing about the optical drive is I have had it for 3 or 4 months now and this light issue only started a couple days ago. I have done 3 backups using this new drive. Why would this issue not show up months ago instead of a couple days ago? What you say about the controller makes sense but then does not. I don't have my CD/DVD burner app running. There should be no "pending I/O operation" where the optical drive is concerned.

If I remove the cable, I will have to wait 6 to 9 hours to see if that will "fix" the issue. The issue goes away with a re-boot. I'll do it tomorrow when I have more time to deal with it.

My apologies on the "disk in the drive" assumption. :)

Keep on BOINCing...! :)
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
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Message 1602790 - Posted: 20 Nov 2014, 0:52:29 UTC

It's worth a shot to try it out. When troubleshooting, start with the simplest ideas, which tend to be the physical ones. Unplug the optical drive and see if there is any change. If not, then one can assume it's not the HDD either.. so maybe drivers for the controller.

Do you use the ones from the board/system maker's website, or do you let drivers come through Windows Update?
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Message 1602948 - Posted: 20 Nov 2014, 7:46:44 UTC - in response to Message 1602664.  

Why would this issue not show up months ago instead of a couple days ago?

It may be bad SATA cable or bad contact of cable 'pins' to DVD or to motherboard.

Some DVD drives (or motherboard controllers?) make the LED always ON when they are opened. (and the device may 'think' it is opened even when you see it as closed)
If you open/close the DVD drive what happens to the LED on the computer case?


I don't have my CD/DVD burner app running. There should be no "pending I/O operation" where the optical drive is concerned.

No need to have any special 'app', Windows itself may poll the DVD from time to time.
In 'Safely remove' icon (on Windows XP) I see my DVD drive listed for 'removal'


If I remove the cable, I will have to wait 6 to 9 hours to see if that will "fix" the issue.

So what? Do you use the DVD every day?


The issue goes away with a re-boot.

On every re-boot or is random?
 


- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 
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Message 1603136 - Posted: 20 Nov 2014, 15:48:38 UTC - in response to Message 1602790.  

It's worth a shot to try it out. When troubleshooting, start with the simplest ideas, which tend to be the physical ones. Unplug the optical drive and see if there is any change. If not, then one can assume it's not the HDD either.. so maybe drivers for the controller.

Do you use the ones from the board/system maker's website, or do you let drivers come through Windows Update?

Greetings,

As of 9:30 this morning, 20-ish minutes ago, I am running without a SATA cable on my optical drive. Right now the light is acting normally.

The diagnostic tool from Western Digital has already ruled out my HDDs as having any problems.

When I build a PC I install all appropriate drivers from the MB CD. Any others may come from Microsoft updates.

I will post a message here whether or not the light status changes. :) Honestly, I'm hoping that the light changes to on solid because I so desperately want a new MB and CPU. :) I'm tired of the i7-860. It has to be monitored continuously to prevent it from overheating.

Keep on BOINCing...! :)
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath
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Message 1603145 - Posted: 20 Nov 2014, 16:05:16 UTC - in response to Message 1602948.  

Why would this issue not show up months ago instead of a couple days ago?

It may be bad SATA cable or bad contact of cable 'pins' to DVD or to motherboard.

Some DVD drives (or motherboard controllers?) make the LED always ON when they are opened. (and the device may 'think' it is opened even when you see it as closed)
1. -> If you open/close the DVD drive what happens to the LED on the computer case?


I don't have my CD/DVD burner app running. There should be no "pending I/O operation" where the optical drive is concerned.

No need to have any special 'app', Windows itself may poll the DVD from time to time.
In 'Safely remove' icon (on Windows XP) I see my DVD drive listed for 'removal'


If I remove the cable, I will have to wait 6 to 9 hours to see if that will "fix" the issue.

2. -> So what? Do you use the DVD every day?


The issue goes away with a re-boot.

3. -> On every re-boot or is random?


1. If I have no disk in the optical drive, nothing happens with the access indicator light when it is opened and closed.. If, however, I have a disk in the drive and close it, the light will flicker as it is looking for an appropriate app to access the disk.

2. No need to get so snarky. If you would have read and quoted that WHOLE line of text you would have read that I was going to run with the cable off today. As I am doing right now. See what happens when you do not read everything in a message?

3. The issue happens with each and every re-boot I have done since the issue was discovered 3 or 4 days ago.

Keep on BOINCing...! :)
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath
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Message 1603517 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 9:22:12 UTC - in response to Message 1603145.  

2. No need to get so snarky. If you would have read and quoted that WHOLE line of text you would have read that I was going to run with the cable off today. As I am doing right now. See what happens when you do not read everything in a message?

The rest of the line:
"The issue goes away with a re-boot. I'll do it tomorrow when I have more time to deal with it."

Since it comes directly after 'a re-boot' I was thinking it refers to 'a re-boot'
 


- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 
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Message 1603519 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 9:30:33 UTC - in response to Message 1603136.  

I'm tired of the i7-860. It has to be monitored continuously to prevent it from overheating.

TThrottle - and no need to 'monitor continuously' by eye
Set the highest temperature you want and CPU will not go over it (auto for BOINC apps, to 'TThrottle' for all other programs/processes make 'Rules')
 


- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 
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Message 1603546 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 10:59:01 UTC - in response to Message 1603136.  

The diagnostic tool from Western Digital has already ruled out my HDDs as having any problems.

When I build a PC I install all appropriate drivers from the MB CD. Any others may come from Microsoft updates.

I will post a message here whether or not the light status changes. :) Honestly, I'm hoping that the light changes to on solid because I so desperately want a new MB and CPU. :) I'm tired of the i7-860. It has to be monitored continuously to prevent it from overheating.

Maybe you should first decide, if you actually want help to save your current system or you want us to tell you, that you should buy a new one. Because the light is apparently not an issue if the hard drives can be accessed without any issues (confirmed by the diagnostic tool) and you also don't notice anything, when the light is "solid on". If it really disturbs you, disconnect the LED and you won't see it anymore.

And if you want to buy a new system anyway, why do you need to monitor this one so much? If it burns up, then you have your reason to get a new one.
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Message 1603559 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 11:17:38 UTC

Greetings Gents,

I do believe I have figured this issue out. After disconnecting my optical drive at 9:30am Eastern yesterday, the light was doing it's normal thing as of 4:30 this morning. I consulted my MB user manual and believe I have things in order.

This MB has 3 sets of SATA headers:
6 Intel - SATA1 thru SATA6 for RAID purposes. Using Intel drivers. I don't do RAID, but I do have my HDDs in SATA1 and 2.

2 Marvell - SATA_6G_1 and SATA_6G_2. Using Marvell drivers. I have an external connector connected on SATA_6G_1. Was connected to the next one...

1 JMicron - SATA_E1. Using JMicron drivers. I now have the optical drive connected here. I believe I had this on the Intel side before.

As of this writing, everything seems good to go. I'm thinking, however, that I should have my 2 HDDs on the Marvell connections. Would this be a reasonable assumption since both drives are 6G? Whew! Everything was much simpler with IDE/EIDE.


@BilBg: I use TThrottle and have been for what seems like forever since discovering it when I was trying to maintain the temp of the 860. That is why I stated that the i7-860 needs to be monitored continuously to prevent overheating. And what's with underlining words like "it" and "app"? Is that supposed to mean something to me? :\

Keep on BOINCing...! :)
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath
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Message 1603563 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 11:33:54 UTC - in response to Message 1603546.  

The diagnostic tool from Western Digital has already ruled out my HDDs as having any problems.

When I build a PC I install all appropriate drivers from the MB CD. Any others may come from Microsoft updates.

I will post a message here whether or not the light status changes. :) Honestly, I'm hoping that the light changes to on solid because I so desperately want a new MB and CPU. :) I'm tired of the i7-860. It has to be monitored continuously to prevent it from overheating.

Maybe you should first decide, if you actually want help to save your current system or you want us to tell you, that you should buy a new one. Because the light is apparently not an issue if the hard drives can be accessed without any issues (confirmed by the diagnostic tool) and you also don't notice anything, when the light is "solid on". If it really disturbs you, disconnect the LED and you won't see it anymore.

And if you want to buy a new system anyway, why do you need to monitor this one so much? If it burns up, then you have your reason to get a new one.

Greetings Link,

Since this system is the ONLY one I have, besides my laptop (which cannot do BOINC) and tablet (doing beta), I need to make sure it stays running good until I can afford to build a new one. Does that make sense? And the light IS an issue if it does not perform as it is supposed to. Disconnecting something because it is not performing properly is not the right answer.

I have been wanting to build a new box for quite some time. It is affording to do it that holds me back and causes me to seek help to prevent this system from having a fatal heart attack or brain aneurism. ;)

I'm retired now and have fixed income. I can only build a PC by piecemeal, buying one or 2 pieces at a time.

Keep on BOINCing...! :)
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath
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Message 1603568 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 11:49:49 UTC - in response to Message 1603145.  
Last modified: 21 Nov 2014, 11:52:14 UTC

Why would this issue not show up months ago instead of a couple days ago?

It may be bad SATA cable or bad contact of cable 'pins' to DVD or to motherboard.

Some DVD drives (or motherboard controllers?) make the LED always ON when they are opened. (and the device may 'think' it is opened even when you see it as closed)
1. -> If you open/close the DVD drive what happens to the LED on the computer case?


I don't have my CD/DVD burner app running. There should be no "pending I/O operation" where the optical drive is concerned.

No need to have any special 'app', Windows itself may poll the DVD from time to time.
In 'Safely remove' icon (on Windows XP) I see my DVD drive listed for 'removal'


If I remove the cable, I will have to wait 6 to 9 hours to see if that will "fix" the issue.

2. -> So what? Do you use the DVD every day?


The issue goes away with a re-boot.

3. -> On every re-boot or is random?


1. If I have no disk in the optical drive, nothing happens with the access indicator light when it is opened and closed.. If, however, I have a disk in the drive and close it, the light will flicker as it is looking for an appropriate app to access the disk.

2. No need to get so snarky. If you would have read and quoted that WHOLE line of text you would have read that I was going to run with the cable off today. As I am doing right now. See what happens when you do not read everything in a message?

3. The issue happens with each and every re-boot I have done since the issue was discovered 3 or 4 days ago.

Keep on BOINCing...! :)


When Windows updates are performed, *sometimes* (actually more often than not), they include a 'dotnet framework' aka common language runtime (clr) ) security update. This mandates a rebuild of the native binaries performed usually by a dotnet or clr optimisation service. This service can consume from some small percentage to 100% of system resources, from a few second, to several hours, depending on what you have installed. This will typicality light the HDD light on solid for the period, disappearing only after some substantial ontime with limited other activity.
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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Message 1603574 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 12:07:58 UTC - in response to Message 1603563.  

Since this system is the ONLY one I have, besides my laptop (which cannot do BOINC) and tablet (doing beta), I need to make sure it stays running good until I can afford to build a new one. Does that make sense?

Yes, now it does, before I was unsure. Somehow your posts reminded me a bit of my father, when he wanted to buy him a new laptop... :D



And the light IS an issue if it does not perform as it is supposed to. Disconnecting something because it is not performing properly is not the right answer.

That depends on how you see it ;-) . I also have a laptop and a desktop computer, both quite old and honestly, in case like that, when everything else seems to work OK, I'd not bother much about an LED, which apparently shows something wrong. The LED function might be broken, the rest apparently still works, so I wouldn't think much about buying a new computer at that point. Sure, I'd try to fix it if possible, but if I couldn't, I'll let it run till it really fails (keeping an eye on it). And than I'd sit to the other one and search for replacement. That's the good thing about having two or more computers, if one fails, just move to the other one. But maybe that's just me...


Anyway, let's hope that moving the cables fixed the issue. If not, try first one drive, if that's OK, add another one and so on till you find which one is responsible for the LED issue (if that has not been sugested yet). Or are all drives absolutely necessary for this machine to run?
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Message 1603586 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 12:53:41 UTC - in response to Message 1603559.  

@BilBg: I use TThrottle ... That is why I stated that the i7-860 needs to be monitored continuously to prevent overheating.

Why?
(or you mean "needs to be monitored continuously" by TThrottle and not by you??)


And what's with underlining words like "it" and "app"? Is that supposed to mean something to me? :\

Of course. It shows to readers which word I am talking about


Disconnecting something because it is not performing properly is not the right answer

And your "plan of getting a new MB and CPU is still on, just more urgently than earlier this morning" just because of wrong LED info is "the right answer"?

Nobody said you have to "disconnect something" forever - this was only for test (which you did).
Next step was to suggest where to connect it (and you found the answer yourself following Cosmic_Ocean's "Moved the DVD drive to the second controller on that board and that problem was resolved")


From your first post:
"Any thoughts or suggestions on this would be greatly appreciated. :)"
So - did you used any suggestions or you come to the idea that DVD (or the connection to it) is the culprit (as it turned out to be) by yourself?
 


- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 
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Message 1603600 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 13:59:38 UTC - in response to Message 1603559.  

I'm thinking, however, that I should have my 2 HDDs on the Marvell connections. Would this be a reasonable assumption since both drives are 6G? Whew! Everything was much simpler with IDE/EIDE.


Regardless if the controllers on the drive are SATA 6G compatible, you will notice negligible speed improvement moving a standard HDD from a SATA 3G to a 6G controller due to the fact that the fastest HDD can only transfer at a top sustained speed of approximately 125-133MB/s (physics problem of getting data off a rotating disc reliably at high speed).

For the number lovers out there:

SATA 150 (1.5 Gigabits per second) maxes out at 0.1875 Gigabytes per second, or 192 Megabytes per second, or 1536 Megabits per second.

SATA 3G (3 Gigabits per second) maxes out at 0.375 Gigabytes per second, or 384 Megabytes per second, or 3072 Megabits per second.

SATA 6G (6 Gigabits per second) maxes out at 0.75 Gigabytes per second, or 768 Megabytes per second, or 6144 Megabits per second.


So as you can see from the numbers, the average mechanical hard drive can barely saturate a (sustained) SATA 150 (192MB/s) connection. This of course discounts burst speeds and other advantages of more advanced controllers, but in general the performance difference is negligible going from SATA 3G to 6G unless you are using Solid State hard drives.

tl;dr I wouldn't worry about moving the hard drives to a different controller unless you're using SSDs.
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Message 1603675 - Posted: 21 Nov 2014, 18:05:09 UTC

And don't forget the SATA cables connecting the drive(s) to the motherboard!
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Message 1603823 - Posted: 22 Nov 2014, 0:42:49 UTC - in response to Message 1603563.  

Siran could you please take a screen shot . But open your task manager and click on the cpu column to bring what ever is running to the top . Then take the screen shot

I have had this very problem and every time it has been some softwhare running in the background and it has not always shown up in the task manager as a process running above 5%

However there are some windows processes that will keep the light on unless you can turn these processes off

I looked at the version of windows you are running and it has the same version number as mine however mine is win7 home premium and yours is the professianal version so i have to ask you are you running a legit version or a hacked version .

If it is then there are many reasons why your getting this problem and i can't tell you here what to do to fix it .
I have run hacked versions of windows for over 10 yrs and know every problem that can happen but you will have to pm me for me to help if you are running a hacked version .

MY CURRENT SYSTEMS HAVE LEGIT VERSIONS RUNNING ON THEM NOW
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