Breaking News

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : Breaking News
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

1 · 2 · Next

AuthorMessage
Sirius B Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 24877
Credit: 3,081,182
RAC: 7
Ireland
Message 1593575 - Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 23:26:40 UTC

ID: 1593575 · Report as offensive
Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 3387
Credit: 4,182,900
RAC: 10
United States
Message 1593589 - Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 23:55:17 UTC

Even after all the years of success rockets are still dangerous.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
ID: 1593589 · Report as offensive
Profile betreger Project Donor
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Jun 99
Posts: 11360
Credit: 29,581,041
RAC: 66
United States
Message 1593602 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 0:33:13 UTC

Very bad news but it was very spectacular.
ID: 1593602 · Report as offensive
Profile cov_route
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 13 Sep 12
Posts: 342
Credit: 10,270,618
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 1593609 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 0:47:58 UTC

Seems like something happened in the area of the main engines. Looks like there was a fire there, seems like something near the engines exploded, and thrust was lost. It settled back near the pad and blew up on impact. Not saying it was the main engines but something was going on in that zone.

The main engines are Russian NK-33's originally built for the Soviet N-1 moon program. They have been in storage for 30 or 40 years. The NK-33's are derivatives of the NK-15's that kept kept exploding on the N-1. Specifically the oxidizer pumps and plumbing. The plumbing is of course all different on the Antares. But it's an eerie echo of the N-1. If Nikolay Kuznetsov was still alive he'd be letting out a big sigh.
ID: 1593609 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1593700 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 5:51:41 UTC - in response to Message 1593609.  

Seems like something happened in the area of the main engines. Looks like there was a fire there, seems like something near the engines exploded, and thrust was lost. It settled back near the pad and blew up on impact. Not saying it was the main engines but something was going on in that zone.

The main engines are Russian NK-33's originally built for the Soviet N-1 moon program. They have been in storage for 30 or 40 years. The NK-33's are derivatives of the NK-15's that kept kept exploding on the N-1. Specifically the oxidizer pumps and plumbing. The plumbing is of course all different on the Antares. But it's an eerie echo of the N-1. If Nikolay Kuznetsov was still alive he'd be letting out a big sigh.

Watching the video, something happens at about 1.5 seconds after main engine start, before liftoff. It looks like a small explosion. I don't think is was a pyro firing to release something for flight as it looks far too big. I'm guessing a leak of some kind with the vapor flashing.

Yes, something nasty happened after a few seconds of flight. You can see how the flame changed from blue to orange. Almost looks like the oxidizer failed as the fire grows looking like the flame is trying to burn on the atmospheres oxygen. Obviously thrust fails and the rocket falls back along its flight path with a very reduced fire, almost like broken plumbing. Obviously when it hits the fuel tank splits open and we get the fireball and the second stage is ignited in the fireball.

I'm sure the what was captured in the telemetry. The why will be a lot harder to coax out.
ID: 1593700 · Report as offensive
Profile Julie
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 28 Oct 09
Posts: 34041
Credit: 18,883,157
RAC: 18
Belgium
Message 1593942 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 19:02:04 UTC

Somehow makes me think of that oxygen accident that happened during ground exercise of the Apollo Mission.
rOZZ
Music
Pictures
ID: 1593942 · Report as offensive
Profile Wiggo
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 34744
Credit: 261,360,520
RAC: 489
Australia
Message 1594123 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 23:51:01 UTC

Even modern Russian rocket engine designs have a bad habit of blowing up so why use a design that dates back to the 1960's?

http://www.news.com.au/technology/science/russian-engines-from-the-1960s-may-have-caused-antares-explosion/story-fnjwlcze-1227106766686

Even before Tuesday’s failure, Orbital Sciences had been reviewing alternatives to the Russian-made engines, Thompson said. The company recently had selected a different main propulsion system for use in a couple of years, and the switch may be accelerated if the Russian engines prove to be the culprit, he said.

The AJ26 engines — modified and tested in the U.S. — originally were designed for the massive Soviet rockets meant to take cosmonauts to the moon during the late 1960s.

Three years ago, an AJ26 leaked kerosene fuel and ignited on the test stand at a NASA centre in Mississippi. Just this past May, another of the engines exploded during a test firing there.

In 2012, SpaceX’s billionaire founder and CEO, Elon Musk, called the Antares rocket “a punchline to a joke” because of the Russian engines. SpaceX, by contrast, makes its own rocket parts.

“I mean they start with engines that were literally made in the ‘60s and, like, packed away in Siberia somewhere,” Musk said in an interview with Wired magazine.

Cheers.
ID: 1594123 · Report as offensive
Profile betreger Project Donor
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Jun 99
Posts: 11360
Credit: 29,581,041
RAC: 66
United States
Message 1594139 - Posted: 30 Oct 2014, 0:25:55 UTC - in response to Message 1594123.  

Tuesday’s flight was insured.

I wonder what the premium was for the insurance.
ID: 1594139 · Report as offensive
Profile Wiggo
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 34744
Credit: 261,360,520
RAC: 489
Australia
Message 1594145 - Posted: 30 Oct 2014, 0:49:06 UTC - in response to Message 1594139.  

Tuesday’s flight was insured.

I wonder what the premium was for the insurance.

I bet that it's taken a huge increase for future flights using those engines.

Cheers.
ID: 1594145 · Report as offensive
Profile betreger Project Donor
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Jun 99
Posts: 11360
Credit: 29,581,041
RAC: 66
United States
Message 1594146 - Posted: 30 Oct 2014, 0:54:53 UTC - in response to Message 1594145.  

I bet that it's taken a huge increase for future flights using those engines.

Good guess.
ID: 1594146 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1594149 - Posted: 30 Oct 2014, 1:00:05 UTC

I heard trough the grapevine it is usually 50% of the payload value.
ID: 1594149 · Report as offensive
Profile cov_route
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 13 Sep 12
Posts: 342
Credit: 10,270,618
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 1594162 - Posted: 30 Oct 2014, 1:31:47 UTC

They could use an escape tower to save the payload when an unmanned rocket fails. I wonder if it would make economic sense.
ID: 1594162 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1594372 - Posted: 30 Oct 2014, 13:46:33 UTC - in response to Message 1594162.  

They could use an escape tower to save the payload when an unmanned rocket fails. I wonder if it would make economic sense.

Yes, no. Not the way the payload is sent up inside a faring.
ID: 1594372 · Report as offensive
Darth Beaver Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 20 Aug 99
Posts: 6728
Credit: 21,443,075
RAC: 3
Australia
Message 1594613 - Posted: 30 Oct 2014, 21:45:22 UTC

Don't ya just love Capitalism , lets contract the work out , says some boffin some where's .


The Russians have a sale on for there rocket Engines let's get them from the Russians and save a heap of money , says another boffin .


5..4..3..2..1..lift off ................um Everyone stay in your places there seems to be a problem

BOOOOOOOM !!

Capitalism wonderful...
ID: 1594613 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1594619 - Posted: 30 Oct 2014, 21:59:28 UTC - in response to Message 1594613.  

“I guess the question I'm asked the most often is: "When you were sitting in that capsule listening to the count-down, how did you feel?" Well, the answer to that one is easy. I felt exactly how you would feel if you were getting ready to launch and knew you were sitting on top of two million parts -- all built by the lowest bidder on a government contract.”
― John Glenn
ID: 1594619 · Report as offensive
Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 3387
Credit: 4,182,900
RAC: 10
United States
Message 1594693 - Posted: 31 Oct 2014, 1:16:39 UTC

The russians must be laughing all the way to the bank. The USA decides to terminate the shuttle program before a replacement is ready to fly, so we hitch rides on russian capsules at great expense and then, one of the "private" companies in an attempt to take a shortcut buys old unused russian rocket motors from a failed program.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
ID: 1594693 · Report as offensive
Profile tullio
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 04
Posts: 8797
Credit: 2,930,782
RAC: 1
Italy
Message 1594806 - Posted: 31 Oct 2014, 9:04:27 UTC - in response to Message 1594693.  

A Russian Progress cargo has just docked to the ISS. On November 23 a Soyuz rocket should ferry to the ISS a crew of three,an American, a Russian, and our Samantha Cristoforetti, ESA astronaut.
Tullio
ID: 1594806 · Report as offensive
Profile tullio
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 04
Posts: 8797
Credit: 2,930,782
RAC: 1
Italy
Message 1594874 - Posted: 31 Oct 2014, 12:55:10 UTC
Last modified: 31 Oct 2014, 13:02:52 UTC

NASA is building a new heavy launcher (the Space Launch System) and a new spacecraft. Orion. This will make its test flight on December 4,atop a Delta IV heavy launcher.
Tullio
ID: 1594874 · Report as offensive
Profile William Rothamel
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Oct 06
Posts: 3756
Credit: 1,999,735
RAC: 4
United States
Message 1594877 - Posted: 31 Oct 2014, 13:25:37 UTC - in response to Message 1594859.  
Last modified: 31 Oct 2014, 13:25:54 UTC

The only reason that Kennedy wanted to be first on the moon was to score a political point against the Kremlin during the Cold war.


Though I am not an overall fan of the Kennedy Clan, I will postulate that JFK was probably smart enough to realize that such an endeavor would move all technology (not just military) forward to the benefit of the United States and ultimately, everyone else.
ID: 1594877 · Report as offensive
Sirius B Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 24877
Credit: 3,081,182
RAC: 7
Ireland
Message 1594899 - Posted: 31 Oct 2014, 14:10:14 UTC - in response to Message 1594881.  

As you constantly keep reminding us of history, you got that one wrong. Russia got there first with Sputnik which only spurred the Yanks to do what they did. As for PR, it was a coup for the Russians.
ID: 1594899 · Report as offensive
1 · 2 · Next

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : Breaking News


 
©2024 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.