We are alone in the universe

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Profile tullio
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Message 1644761 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 2:48:26 UTC - in response to Message 1644633.  

The ITER project in France is an international project. It has so far cost 15 billion dollars and is going to cost another 10 billions without producing a single watt of power. It is just a "proof of concept" experiment in plasma confinement according to the Tokamak line of design. Another experiment, of much lesser cost, is being built in Moscow by an Italian-Russian cooperative effort. It should cost 250 million dollars. It is a design along the ALCATOR machine built at MIT by Bruno Coppi and is called IGNITOR.
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Message 1644846 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 9:35:24 UTC - in response to Message 1644751.  

Nuclear fission isn't clean, nuclear fusion, if mastered, will be clean.


True, that's what I meant.. Thanx for the rectification Bob.
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Message 1644861 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 10:39:50 UTC - in response to Message 1644846.  
Last modified: 21 Feb 2015, 10:42:19 UTC

What fusion produces are 14 MeV neutrons. Having worked with neutrons in my youth, I know they are bad beasts. They can destroy any material in a short time. So the "first wall" in a fusion reactor shall have to be substituted in a short time. But of course it will be radioactive, so the substitution shall have to be made by robots,not by human beings. So engineering problems in a fusion reactors will be huge, even when plasma physics problems are solved. Good luck.
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Message 1654024 - Posted: 18 Mar 2015, 7:02:10 UTC - in response to Message 1644761.  

The ITER project in France is an international project. It has so far cost 15 billion dollars and is going to cost another 10 billions without producing a single watt of power. It is just a "proof of concept" experiment in plasma confinement according to the Tokamak line of design. Another experiment, of much lesser cost, is being built in Moscow by an Italian-Russian cooperative effort. It should cost 250 million dollars. It is a design along the ALCATOR machine built at MIT by Bruno Coppi and is called IGNITOR.
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I first read about ITER in a New Yorker article. Seems like a frustrating project to be working on.
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Message 1654040 - Posted: 18 Mar 2015, 7:59:00 UTC - in response to Message 1644861.  

What fusion produces are 14 MeV neutrons. Having worked with neutrons in my youth, I know they are bad beasts. They can destroy any material in a short time. So the "first wall" in a fusion reactor shall have to be substituted in a short time. But of course it will be radioactive, so the substitution shall have to be made by robots,not by human beings. So engineering problems in a fusion reactors will be huge, even when plasma physics problems are solved. Good luck.
Tullio

Hence the need for helium 3. If what I read is correct the use of helium 3 greatly reduces the output of unwanted neutrons and will allow a much longer life of the containment vessel. But it is still true that you can't get something for nothing.
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Message 1654099 - Posted: 18 Mar 2015, 11:58:54 UTC

I've read on La Repubblica paper that scientists from the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory are now trying to detect cold neutrinos left by the Big Bang by an experiment called PTOLEMY. Maybe they have lost hope in nuclear fusion experiments where they developed a Tokamak called Adiabatic Toroidal Compressor and want to do research in cosmology and astrophysics.
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Message 1666935 - Posted: 18 Apr 2015, 19:01:58 UTC - in response to Message 1644861.  
Last modified: 18 Apr 2015, 19:03:00 UTC

What fusion produces are 14 MeV neutrons. Having worked with neutrons in my youth, I know they are bad beasts. They can destroy any material in a short time. So the "first wall" in a fusion reactor shall have to be substituted in a short time. But of course it will be radioactive, so the substitution shall have to be made by robots,not by human beings. So engineering problems in a fusion reactors will be huge, even when plasma physics problems are solved. Good luck.
Tullio


That's why the Sun doesn't have "walls"? :)

Instead of trying to contain fusion using magnetic walls, could we use gravity instead?
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Message 1666971 - Posted: 18 Apr 2015, 20:21:58 UTC

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Message 1666973 - Posted: 18 Apr 2015, 20:24:13 UTC - in response to Message 1666935.  

Instead of trying to contain fusion using magnetic walls, could we use gravity instead?

Sure, we just have to build a reactor several times the size of Jupiter. ;) Problem is, gravity is extremely weak unless huge masses are involved.
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Message 1666985 - Posted: 18 Apr 2015, 20:40:08 UTC - in response to Message 1666973.  
Last modified: 18 Apr 2015, 20:40:52 UTC

Instead of trying to contain fusion using magnetic walls, could we use gravity instead?

Sure, we just have to build a reactor several times the size of Jupiter. ;) Problem is, gravity is extremely weak unless huge masses are involved.


Was just pondering earlier how the asteroid belt never formed a planet due to Jupiters gravitational field..
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Message 1667855 - Posted: 21 Apr 2015, 1:37:32 UTC - in response to Message 1593216.  

Weve scoured the 1000 closest stars and of the 3500 exo-planets found only one in a goldilocks zone and only 455 lightyears away a 5 million mile trip. Life I hoped would be closer but these distances ensure ET wouldnt come this far to twinkle in our sky.
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Message 1667859 - Posted: 21 Apr 2015, 1:46:55 UTC - in response to Message 1667857.  

Weve scoured the 1000 closest stars and of the 3500 exo-planets found only one in a goldilocks zone and only 455 lightyears away a 5 million mile trip. Life I hoped would be closer but these distances ensure ET wouldnt come this far to twinkle in our sky.

5 million miles would be close. 455 LY is more like 5865696 million miles. Either way we won't be getting that far out for a very very long time, if ever.
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Message 1667991 - Posted: 21 Apr 2015, 9:55:52 UTC - in response to Message 1667859.  
Last modified: 21 Apr 2015, 9:57:23 UTC

Yes: the confluence of necessary conditions for life like ours to form is likely to be extremely rare in my estimation.

The fact that there are hundreds of billions of stars in our Galaxy and a hundred billion galaxies will allow one to surmise that there are, has been or will be other intelligent civilizations in our Universe.

Though it may not be likely; we all hope to some day just know for sure, that someone is there. Also that someone wants someone else to know about the fact that they exist or once existed.
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Message 1668032 - Posted: 21 Apr 2015, 12:36:40 UTC - in response to Message 1667855.  

Weve scoured the 1000 closest stars and of the 3500 exo-planets found only one in a goldilocks zone and only 455 lightyears away a 5 million mile trip. Life I hoped would be closer but these distances ensure ET wouldnt come this far to twinkle in our sky.

We found quite a few...& so much closer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_potentially_habitable_exoplanets#Table
;)


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Message 1668064 - Posted: 21 Apr 2015, 13:49:59 UTC - in response to Message 1668058.  

Though it may not be likely; we all hope to some day just know for sure, that someone is there. Also that someone wants someone else to know about the fact that they exist or once existed

Not exactly at the top of my list of life's must do's I have to say, but yeah, why not. So I learn tomorrow that there is a green blob of slime X light years away that can send messages. Hmm, interesting but is that going to enrich my life for evermore?

I would suggest that Seti is fast becoming just another social networking site like Facebook or Twitter. Anyone want to argue that point?


Why would you say that Chris?
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Message 1668075 - Posted: 21 Apr 2015, 14:26:46 UTC - in response to Message 1668058.  

Though it may not be likely; we all hope to some day just know for sure, that someone is there. Also that someone wants someone else to know about the fact that they exist or once existed

Not exactly at the top of my list of life's must do's I have to say, but yeah, why not. So I learn tomorrow that there is a green blob of slime X light years away that can send messages. Hmm, interesting but is that going to enrich my life for evermore?

I would suggest that Seti is fast becoming just another social networking site like Facebook or Twitter. Anyone want to argue that point?

Well when seti@home starts collecting data about me and tries to force me to friend everyone else here and is full of advertising I will start worrying about it being just another social network.
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Message 1668081 - Posted: 21 Apr 2015, 14:49:41 UTC - in response to Message 1668075.  

Though it may not be likely; we all hope to some day just know for sure, that someone is there. Also that someone wants someone else to know about the fact that they exist or once existed

Not exactly at the top of my list of life's must do's I have to say, but yeah, why not. So I learn tomorrow that there is a green blob of slime X light years away that can send messages. Hmm, interesting but is that going to enrich my life for evermore?

I would suggest that Seti is fast becoming just another social networking site like Facebook or Twitter. Anyone want to argue that point?

Well when seti@home starts collecting data about me and tries to force me to friend everyone else here and is full of advertising I will start worrying about it being just another social network.


Same here.
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Message 1668322 - Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 6:31:20 UTC - in response to Message 1668075.  

Though it may not be likely; we all hope to some day just know for sure, that someone is there. Also that someone wants someone else to know about the fact that they exist or once existed

Not exactly at the top of my list of life's must do's I have to say, but yeah, why not. So I learn tomorrow that there is a green blob of slime X light years away that can send messages. Hmm, interesting but is that going to enrich my life for evermore?

I would suggest that Seti is fast becoming just another social networking site like Facebook or Twitter. Anyone want to argue that point?

Well when seti@home starts collecting data about me and tries to force me to friend everyone else here and is full of advertising I will start worrying about it being just another social network.


Also, we would have to shag along, like all other Facebookers! :D


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Message 1668360 - Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 8:48:03 UTC - in response to Message 1668322.  

Whether we are alone in the universe in the sense of other beings similar to us in sentience is perhaps humankind's greatest question. It has the highest level of curiosity and religious significance.
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Message 1668379 - Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 10:23:56 UTC - in response to Message 1668360.  
Last modified: 22 Apr 2015, 10:27:43 UTC

Whether we are alone in the universe in the sense of other beings similar to us in sentience is perhaps humankind's greatest question. It has the highest level of curiosity and religious significance.


Unexplainable phenomena tend to wake the two above underlined terms.
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