Goodbye to more freedoms, liberties and privacy

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Profile Robert Waite
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Message 1592983 - Posted: 27 Oct 2014, 15:30:40 UTC

I swear the right wingers keep files filled with their extremist wish lists ready to be presented as legislation at the very moment something happens.

Some lonely loser gave Prime Minister Harper the opportunity to open the "INCREASED SURVEILLANCE" file and slap it on the table, all the while acting like he and a few ministers worked tirelessly to craft the bill.
No.
The lonely loser with a gun is just the pretext for more police state laws.
Our governments keep repeating that we will not be intimidated and we will not give in to terror.

What the hell do they call this if it isn't giving in?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ottawa-shooting-harper-government-wants-to-make-terror-arrests-easier-1.2811571

Our Prime Minister had a fairly close experience with the gun laws he has been promoting and I thought he might have had a change of direction while pondering his fate while hiding in a meeting room with chairs piled against the door.
I'll even go further and say he probably peed his trousers too.

But I digress.
The point I'm making is how quickly rightist governments seem to have an entire package of laws drawn up after any incidents that relate to whatever the government has on it's agenda.
This opportunist collection of bobble-heads is going to put Canadians further into a surveillance police state without even a passing thought about the ramifications,
I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Profile Robert Waite
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Message 1592991 - Posted: 27 Oct 2014, 16:21:39 UTC

I'm pleased to see not everyone going over the top with this...

http://www.canada.com/News/canada/Government+exploits+attacks+military+push+security+agenda/10326560/story.html

I'm feeling so damned manipulated right now.
Both national news services are running live reports from the funeral of the murdered reservist soldier.
The government has sickeningly placed this victim of a lunatic/fanatic as their poster-boy for why we need less privacy and freedom.

Who would dare argue when so many flags are waving?
Who would dare point out the cynicism while so many grieve?
I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Message 1592996 - Posted: 27 Oct 2014, 16:53:47 UTC

Worst is that its completely unnecessary. I mean, this lone nutjob was already on a government watch list. Hell, the reason he did this is because he was on that watch list. More anti terror laws are not gonna help unless you legalize picking up people because they might do something. But that would be the start of a real police state.
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Message 1593005 - Posted: 27 Oct 2014, 17:07:24 UTC

Welcome to fear for fear's sake.
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Message 1593041 - Posted: 27 Oct 2014, 18:22:45 UTC - in response to Message 1592996.  

Worst is that its completely unnecessary. I mean, this lone nutjob was already on a government watch list. Hell, the reason he did this is because he was on that watch list. More anti terror laws are not gonna help unless you legalize picking up people because they might do something. But that would be the start of a real police state.

Hollywood did an excellent film of that...

...you might recall "Minority Report".
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Message 1593196 - Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 0:18:13 UTC - in response to Message 1592991.  

I have been warning you , your P.M is made of the same skit as our P.M ,next election kick the S.O.B out
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Message 1593392 - Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 8:49:03 UTC
Last modified: 28 Oct 2014, 8:49:31 UTC

I have a spiffing idea...

Lets;


    Not watch potential terrorists
    Not watch organised criminal gangs
    Not gather intelligence on foreign powers who may spy on us and endanger our national security



Now I am all for ensuring a state does not move too far down the road of a controlling dictatorship with some smattering of democracy, but there comes a point when to enjoy our freedoms we must accept the state has to take certain, controlled, actions in order to protect the state and it's citizens.

I would agree that there is a fine line between monitoring, control and a semblance of a police state, but the left wing idea of doing nothing is simply not an acceptable position either.

The irony of this is that that many left wing policies of the past are partly to blame for the current state of affairs, however I would also add that many more right wing foreign policies are just as to blame in all western nations.

So instead of blaming the left or the right, why doesn't everyone simply grow the hell up and start communicating to evolve a solution that meets all the concerns of all parties...


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Message 1593748 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 8:38:35 UTC - in response to Message 1593392.  

Now I am all for ensuring a state does not move too far down the road of a controlling dictatorship with some smattering of democracy, but there comes a point when to enjoy our freedoms we must accept the state has to take certain, controlled, actions in order to protect the state and it's citizens.

I would agree that there is a fine line between monitoring, control and a semblance of a police state, but the left wing idea of doing nothing is simply not an acceptable position either.

The irony of this is that that many left wing policies of the past are partly to blame for the current state of affairs, however I would also add that many more right wing foreign policies are just as to blame in all western nations.

So instead of blaming the left or the right, why doesn't everyone simply grow the hell up and start communicating to evolve a solution that meets all the concerns of all parties...

The current policies are good enough. Canada already has all the policies in place to monitor and track potential terrorists, like they did with the guy that ended up shooting this soldier and attacking parliament. He was on a watchlist and thats why he couldn't get a passport to go to Syria or Libya or whatever, to join the extremists.

What would more government surveillance have done to prevent this?

Furthermore, lets not overstate the threat of terrorism. So yeah, there have been two attacks in Canada now and two people have died. Compared to the dozen of other things that can kill people, terrorism is only an extremely minor insignificant threat. Yet the standard response is to take far reaching measures that significantly breach peoples privacy to combat a threat that is only so minor.
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Message 1593809 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 12:38:58 UTC - in response to Message 1593392.  

but there comes a point when to enjoy our freedoms we must accept the state has to take certain, controlled, actions in order to protect the state and it's citizens.


Who will control and who will control controller?... Any additional right to make some unjustified actions given to some organization (government organization/department) just increase corruption inside corresponding organisation. Powerful organization starts to protect own power. And interests of usual citizens for which all that power was given never come into equation. And next we have falsified reports regarding nuclear or bio-weapons in some countries... or multi-millions submarine hunting quests just before new budget hearings.
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Message 1593815 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 13:06:36 UTC - in response to Message 1593809.  
Last modified: 29 Oct 2014, 13:10:53 UTC

but there comes a point when to enjoy our freedoms we must accept the state has to take certain, controlled, actions in order to protect the state and it's citizens.


Who will control and who will control controller?... Any additional right to make some unjustified actions given to some organization (government organization/department) just increase corruption inside corresponding organisation. Powerful organization starts to protect own power. And interests of usual citizens for which all that power was given never come into equation. And next we have falsified reports regarding nuclear or bio-weapons in some countries... or multi-millions submarine hunting quests just before new budget hearings.

Submarine hunt:)
Well our country has a long coastline to protect from evil enemies.
We want freedom, Liberty and privacy.
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Message 1593878 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 16:37:55 UTC

Where does the growth of the surveillance state end?
Every time some idiot with a gun or a bomb in his underwear makes the news, we loose more freedom.

The governments invaded our circle of freedom after those Saudis attacked the U.S. on Sept 11.
Surveillance and monitoring of citizens increased... but, you know, just enough to keep us safe.

Some crazed fanatical goat herder makes threats against Canadian citizens and, once again, surveillance and monitoring of citizens is increased.

A couple of mentally ill lost souls attack and kill Canadian soldiers and once again the security state steps up to further worm it's way into our lives.

Every time they take another bite out of our privacy, our freedoms and liberties, they use the same twisted logic that it's for our own safety and security.

Follow this logic to it's extreme conclusion and you find the surveillance/security state has placed us in small concrete cells surrounded by armed guards and cameras pointed at us 24 hrs a day.
We will certainly be safe then.
I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Message 1593884 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 16:50:00 UTC - in response to Message 1593878.  

I believe I said it would be unfortunate to see armed troops on our streets & got mocked...

For those that did the mocking...

...it's time the "Ivory Towers" got demolished!

Notice though, that they are protecting "the leaders"
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Message 1593886 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 16:52:30 UTC

Regarding the surveillance state, anyone paying even the smallest amount of attention knows that the increase in state monitoring of our private communications, our activities and our thoughts is already contracted out to the other partners.

Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States created an entity called Five Eyes.

Each individual country has laws that prevent the governments from spying on their own citizens. To get around such silly hindering laws, they formed this alliance of spy agencies.
Each member country spies on citizens of the other four members then passes the information back to the governments who's citizens are being watched.

Our leaders continue to speak publicly to us about our wonderful freedoms and democracies and how they must be protected from outside attacks. The dangers to our democracy and freedom are not coming from outside sources.
The danger is from within.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
Sinclair Lewis
I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Message 1593888 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 17:00:29 UTC - in response to Message 1593886.  

Regarding the surveillance state, anyone paying even the smallest amount of attention knows that the increase in state monitoring of our private communications, our activities and our thoughts is already contracted out to the other partners.

Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States created an entity called Five Eyes.

Each individual country has laws that prevent the governments from spying on their own citizens. To get around such silly hindering laws, they formed this alliance of spy agencies.
Each member country spies on citizens of the other four members then passes the information back to the governments who's citizens are being watched.

Our leaders continue to speak publicly to us about our wonderful freedoms and democracies and how they must be protected from outside attacks. The dangers to our democracy and freedom are not coming from outside sources.
The danger is from within.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
Sinclair Lewis

Been saying that for some time.
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Message 1593914 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 17:55:11 UTC - in response to Message 1593886.  

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
Sinclair Lewis

"It can't happen here" is the title of his book.
In Europe it have already started. Again!
Just look at France, Hungary and Greece.
And Sweden and UK for that matter.
As you say. The danger is from within.
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Message 1593917 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 18:02:32 UTC

Follow this logic to it's extreme conclusion and you find the surveillance/security state has placed us in small concrete cells surrounded by armed guards and cameras pointed at us 24 hrs a day.
We will certainly be safe then.


Boy Oh Boy, Dat Makes A LOT of SENSE.

Dr. HO HUM Rolls Eyes.

Concrete? Sounds GOoD. I Like Rock Hard Stuff. And DRum DRums HO HUM.

' '

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1593960 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 19:25:21 UTC

That's why I called it "EXTREME"

The point I'm making is they are chipping away freedoms with every incident and at some point there will be nothing left.
I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Message 1593993 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 20:11:34 UTC

*looking at thread title* Freedom is in your heart bro, liberty depends under which laws you fall under and privacy is a matter of self respect (imo) Carry on...
rOZZ
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Message 1594000 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 20:19:15 UTC

In Canada, first they came for my cell phone ...
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Message 1594001 - Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 20:20:15 UTC - in response to Message 1593960.  

That's why I called it "EXTREME"
The point I'm making is they are chipping away freedoms with every incident and at some point there will be nothing left.

Very much like "Animal Farm" by George Orwell.
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