If someone points a gun at you & fires 8 rounds, would that be classed as attempted murder (or if you're killed - Murder)?

London shoot-out footage released

..."both in north London, were found not guilty of attempted murder but guilty of possessing a firearm and ammunition with intent to endanger life."

We can't damage their fragile ego now can we?

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For those who argue for gun control, read this & weep...

8 Children found dead in Cairns, Australia - reportedly stabbed

For those who argue for gun control, read this & weep...

8 Children found dead in Cairns, Australia - reportedly stabbed

And very likely another illegal firearm involved again. :-(

It is believed that they were stabbed but police not confirming anything until the coroner's report is made available.

America has a crazy control problem ...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/12/19/us-appeals-court-deems-gun-law-unconstitutional/

A federal appeals court in Cincinnati deemed a law unconstitutional that kept a Michigan man who was committed to a mental institution from owning a gun.

The three-judge panel of the Sixth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals unanimously ruled that a federal ban on gun ownership for those who have been committed to a mental institution violated the Second Amendment rights of 73-year-old Clifford Charles Tyler.

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Update:

Who needs guns!

America has a crazy control problem ...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/12/19/us-appeals-court-deems-gun-law-unconstitutional/

A federal appeals court in Cincinnati deemed a law unconstitutional that kept a Michigan man who was committed to a mental institution from owning a gun.

The three-judge panel of the Sixth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals unanimously ruled that a federal ban on gun ownership for those who have been committed to a mental institution violated the Second Amendment rights of 73-year-old Clifford Charles Tyler.

The headlines was not the decision.

It was a narrow decision regarding the ability to Petition THIS State, regarding you are now sane.

This State did not have The Mechanism to allow a person, committed for a few days, over 30 years ago, to have him declared sane (if he is) for the purpose to obtain a Firearms Permit.

The Court only ruled that this State MUST have this Mechanism in place.

Not about giving Mentally Ill persons the Right To...

Uh, no. Until they rewrite the law (I assume they will) any mentally ill person can buy a gun. The headline is technically correct, it just doesn't make the assumption. Today the law is not in effect, in the sixth circuit.

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any mentally ill person can buy a gun

Then There 'is' Hope. GOoD GOD, There 'is' Hope.

For This Country.

Yep.

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

But, back to the double standard on violence...

Dead is Dead. The murder victim is still dead, no matter if they were killed by an Uzi or a Baseball Bat.

Still not apparent?
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/police-officer-in-missouri-shot-killed-man-who-pulled-gun/ar-BBhaJGD
Will he immediately shot and kill boy with Baseball Bat?

To stop man with Baseball Bat is enough to shoot his legs and not take his life...

But, back to the double standard on violence...

Dead is Dead. The murder victim is still dead, no matter if they were killed by an Uzi or a Baseball Bat.

Still not apparent?
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/police-officer-in-missouri-shot-killed-man-who-pulled-gun/ar-BBhaJGD
Will he immediately shot and kill boy with Baseball Bat?

To stop man with Baseball Bat is enough to shoot his legs and not take his life...

Not advocating, and never shot, a person holding, in a threating manner a baseball bat, nor knife.

If he 'charges' you, he gets shot, 'Center Mass'.

'Leg Shots' are a Hollywood Fantasy.

Hope you are never in a Grand Jury, deciding if an aged grandmother, or anyone else, should stand trial for not shooting the attacker in the legs.

I would aslo add the hand shot and or the shoulder shot. Both Hollywood and TV BS.
If some one is intent on doing you physical harm or death. You dont wound him. You end the threat. Center of mass is where you aim. And even that cant guarentee you win. Humans can take terrible damage and still kill you.

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[/quote]

Old James

'Leg Shots' are a Hollywood Fantasy.

Except that in other countries the police does get trained to aim for the legs. I know the Dutch police is trained like that (although not in cases where they are charged by a suspect).

'Leg Shots' are a Hollywood Fantasy.

Except that in other countries the police does get trained to aim for the legs. I know the Dutch police is trained like that (although not in cases where they are charged by a suspect).

The Dutch are a Gun Culture, where over 100 Million People Own Guns?
The Dutch Police Routinely, in their 'Inner City's', confront Armed, Murdering, Gang Member Thugs, shooting at, or threating them?
Different Culture, Experience and Necessary Response.
What 'Works' for One Culture, may not be transferrable to Another.
Correct?

Sweden, Finland, Norway and Canada have a "gun Culture" where many peoples owns guns just like the US.
But not so many fatal shootings.
Strange...

Is 'Gun Culture' Europe the same?

In 2013 it was found 87 cases of lethal violence in Sweden.
How many of those are gun related I dont know.
Most of them are probably killed by knifes.
About 10 millions are living in Sweden.
In 75 percent of cases of lethal violence, the involved know each other.
Police killings are about one per year.

Chicago has less than 3 millions citizens.
If the 'US killing culture' where about the same as Sweden it would be less than 250 victims per year!

The Dutch are a Gun Culture, where over 100 Million People Own Guns?

The Dutch Police Routinely, in their 'Inner City's', confront Armed, Murdering, Gang Member Thugs, shooting at, or threating them?

Different Culture, Experience and Necessary Response.

What 'Works' for One Culture, may not be transferrable to Another.

Correct?

Yes and no. The Netherlands doesn't have a gun problem, nor do we have so many people live in abject poverty that gang's have become such a major problem. And as a result, police are in far less situations where guns become a necessary option. On top of that, police are trained to deescalate first and when they shoot a civilian there will automatically be an investigation to see if it was justified.

That said, the Dutch police is still trained to shoot at center mass in cases where they are under attack and their life is in danger. Same as the American police. The difference here is that they are also trained to aim for the legs in cases where they are not in danger. Are you saying that this can't be done in the US? That American police officers are somehow fundamentally incapable of being trained in this manner? Because I don't buy that.

The Dutch are a Gun Culture, where over 100 Million People Own Guns?

The Dutch Police Routinely, in their 'Inner City's', confront Armed, Murdering, Gang Member Thugs, shooting at, or threating them?

Different Culture, Experience and Necessary Response.

What 'Works' for One Culture, may not be transferrable to Another.

Correct?

Yes and no. The Netherlands doesn't have a gun problem, nor do we have so many people live in abject poverty that gang's have become such a major problem. And as a result, police are in far less situations where guns become a necessary option. On top of that, police are trained to deescalate first and when they shoot a civilian there will automatically be an investigation to see if it was justified.

That said, the Dutch police is still trained to shoot at center mass in cases where they are under attack and their life is in danger. Same as the American police. The difference here is that they are also trained to aim for the legs in cases where they are not in danger. Are you saying that this can't be done in the US? That American police officers are somehow fundamentally incapable of being trained in this manner? Because I don't buy that.

Trained to aim for the legs? Yes of course but in a real situation?
I'm also trained as a conscript when doing guard duty to aim for the legs.
But I'm quite sure that in a real situation I would aim for the body.
No time to Think...

The use of 'Deadly Physical Force' (shooting), can ONLY be used, in America, to Protect One's, or Another's LIFE.

The Dutch police are trained to SHOOT at another person, when their, or another's life, is NOT in Danger?

THAT is a CRIME in The USA.

Under certain circumstances yes.

Besides, while technically in the US officers are only allowed to shoot when its necessary to protect one's life or the lives of bystanders, reality has shown that police shoot people who are not a threat to anyone. Including young children. The police has legally gotten away with murder on numerous occasions.

The use of 'Deadly Physical Force' (shooting), can ONLY be used, in America, to Protect One's, or Another's LIFE.
The Dutch police are trained to SHOOT at another person, when their, or another's life, is NOT in Danger?
THAT is a CRIME in The USA.

Under certain circumstances yes.
Besides, while technically in the US officers are only allowed to shoot when its necessary to protect one's life or the lives of bystanders, reality has shown that police shoot people who are not a threat to anyone. Including young children. The police has legally gotten away with murder on numerous occasions.

What? The police has legally gotten away with murder on numerous occasions?
I hope you know what the legal definition of murder and manslaughter is.
In the western world it's the same definition and law enforcement is about the same.

What? The police has legally gotten away with murder on numerous occasions?
I hope you know what the legal definition of murder and manslaughter is.
In the western world it's the same definition and law enforcement is about the same.

Well fine, they get away with manslaughter. Not much better really.

What? The police has legally gotten away with murder on numerous occasions?
I hope you know what the legal definition of murder and manslaughter is.
In the western world it's the same definition and law enforcement is about the same.

Well fine, they get away with manslaughter. Not much better really.

Specifically...

Which Murder's/Manslaughter's, are you referring to?

Have you not been paying attention to the news lately? Didn't read the New York times for I dunno? the past few months? Not aware of why there are protests all over the country? Yeah, those cases of manslaughter.

What? The police has legally gotten away with murder on numerous occasions?
I hope you know what the legal definition of murder and manslaughter is.
In the western world it's the same definition and law enforcement is about the same.

Well fine, they get away with manslaughter. Not much better really.

What would you expect? Law enforcement without the ability to protect themself and to protect innocent Citizens?
Yes it's sometimes manslaughter but the alternative...