Double standard on violence #2

Message boards : Politics : Double standard on violence #2
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 . . . 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1607936 - Posted: 2 Dec 2014, 0:07:55 UTC - in response to Message 1607920.  

Answer this question...

A gun, fully loaded, lying on a table with no one in sight...

...Is that gun dangerous?

Before you answer that try this:

There is a pile of explosive sitting on a table with no one on sight ...

...Is that pile of explosive dangerous?

That would depend on whether or not the detonator is active.

No, wrong answer. You didn't ask what the explosive was. Not all are stable. But you may assume a primer charge is in place.

So what is it doing on the table?

It is in the chamber of that gun you put on the table.

The question was: What is the explosive doing on the table...

...or are you subtly saying the explosive is in the cartridge which is in the gun?

What, sitting. Why, you are beginning to understand.
ID: 1607936 · Report as offensive
Sirius B Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 24877
Credit: 3,081,182
RAC: 7
Ireland
Message 1607945 - Posted: 2 Dec 2014, 0:42:09 UTC - in response to Message 1607936.  

Answer this question...

A gun, fully loaded, lying on a table with no one in sight...

...Is that gun dangerous?

Before you answer that try this:

There is a pile of explosive sitting on a table with no one on sight ...

...Is that pile of explosive dangerous?

That would depend on whether or not the detonator is active.

No, wrong answer. You didn't ask what the explosive was. Not all are stable. But you may assume a primer charge is in place.

So what is it doing on the table?

It is in the chamber of that gun you put on the table.

The question was: What is the explosive doing on the table...

...or are you subtly saying the explosive is in the cartridge which is in the gun?

What, sitting. Why, you are beginning to understand.

LOL. With "loaded" questions like that, we'll be seeing hell freeze over before they get answered adequately.
ID: 1607945 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1607960 - Posted: 2 Dec 2014, 2:10:30 UTC - in response to Message 1607945.  

LOL. With "loaded" questions like that, we'll be seeing hell freeze over before they get answered adequately.

As I'd note the "room" implies a building, and given time buildings fall down. So you wanted to hear you loaded gun presented no risk, it does not. There is risk, but the incremental additional risk is rather small, but not zero. Far less than a mental patient in the room with the gun presents.

Just a reminder, there are no absolutes, be they rest frames, temperatures, or "loaded" questions.
ID: 1607960 · Report as offensive
Profile James Sotherden
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 May 99
Posts: 10436
Credit: 110,373,059
RAC: 54
United States
Message 1608053 - Posted: 2 Dec 2014, 7:56:36 UTC - in response to Message 1607643.  

Мишель...

After you fire a 9MM handgun: Then return to this Thread, and Post your experience. You may be shocked how easy it is to fire rapidly.

Hardly. I know how fast a semi auto can fire.

The recoil is very limited and the Report (sound) is not like the Hollywood Movies. There is no BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!, BANG! BANG! BANG!, nor related sound effects. It is just a pop, pop, pop.

Again, I know what they sound like (sound is one of the few things games do get right about guns). And sure, recoil isn't like firing one of those handcannons. But those arent the only things that affect accuracy. I mean, have you ever tried just holding a gun steady? I've tried, and I can't do it. I mean its not like Im waving it all over the place, but Im pretty sure I'd have a lot of trouble keeping it straight. I would need training before I would be accurate with a 9mm. And mind you, I did this with an airsoft gun, a cheap one. Those things are plastic and weigh nothing. I can imagine that if I were to try this with a real 9mm gun, fully loaded, my accuracy would be even worse. And if I were to be in a stressful situation (like someone pointing a gun at me and yelling), yeah no way I could hit anything beyond point blank range.

Hell, even take a look at Darren Wilson. The guy shot 12 shots and only hit 6 times. And he was shooting at pretty much point blank range and he is supposed to have at least some basic fire arm training. So, guns in the hands of untrained, 12 year olds? Yeah, if they are going to hit anything, its more likely by accident.

REAL LIFE EXPERIENCES are not what you believe.

You refuse to LEARN anything from those with Training and Experience.

Oh no, you forget that I have my own experiences as well.

Well your premis on on a heavier hand gun is false. The more mass the less movement you get. Back in my range days I could hold that Redhawk .44 magnum steady at 100 yards with iron sights. And hit 5 out of 6. My Ruger single six with the same lenght barrel ( 7 and 1/2 inches ) but in .22 rim fire My shots are about are all over the target at 50 yards. The differancs in weight is about two + pounds.
As far as the bang bang bang of a 9MM in a war game on a computer. ITs not even close to real life. I have never seen any gamer wearing ear protection while playing a game.
I made the mistake of shooting a .38 special with out ear prtotection only once!
You really need to go to a range and fire real firearms not airsoft ones or gamer ones.
Nothing wrong with air soft, Two of my grand kids have them. They are great for trigger control and safety lessons. Such as never sweeping a muzzel across your body or another persons.
At the Gunsite academy in AZ. There was one student with a single action colt in .45 cal who fired faster than a .45 colt 1911.
For double action pistols look up Gerry Michulek. He is the fastest today. The man can hit a playing card with all six shots in record time.
[/quote]

Old James
ID: 1608053 · Report as offensive
Мишель
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Nov 13
Posts: 3073
Credit: 87,868
RAC: 0
Netherlands
Message 1608115 - Posted: 2 Dec 2014, 11:55:26 UTC - in response to Message 1608053.  

Well your premis on on a heavier hand gun is false. The more mass the less movement you get. Back in my range days I could hold that Redhawk .44 magnum steady at 100 yards with iron sights. And hit 5 out of 6. My Ruger single six with the same lenght barrel ( 7 and 1/2 inches ) but in .22 rim fire My shots are about are all over the target at 50 yards. The differancs in weight is about two + pounds.

Doesn't a heavier gun tire you more quickly, making it harder to hold the gun steady when aiming?

Regardless, I'm a horrible shot. I would need serious training and much more gun experience in order to get my accuracy up. And I imagine that this is true for most people.


As far as the bang bang bang of a 9MM in a war game on a computer. ITs not even close to real life. I have never seen any gamer wearing ear protection while playing a game.
I made the mistake of shooting a .38 special with out ear prtotection only once!
You really need to go to a range and fire real firearms not airsoft ones or gamer ones.

Thats what I've been saying. Games are not real and their depiction of fire arms is unrealistic at best. Hence the idea that playing lots of games makes you a better shooter is just nonsense.
ID: 1608115 · Report as offensive
Profile MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Jun 02
Posts: 6895
Credit: 6,588,977
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1608213 - Posted: 2 Dec 2014, 20:27:10 UTC

Yep. Where 'is' Da OutRage?

Yep. White Man Slaughtered by 5 Teens(hammers), Up The Road Aways from August Incident and Recent No Indictment.

5 teens, I wonder what Color they Are? I Think I Know.

Yep.

And No One Cares in The Media('cept Fox) and No OutRage by InsaneHustlin'Hussein and His Minions.

Yep, Kill The White Man and Everyone Snores in The Media and At The 'White' House.

Yep.

Got Yep?

Yep.

' '

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
ID: 1608213 · Report as offensive
Profile James Sotherden
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 May 99
Posts: 10436
Credit: 110,373,059
RAC: 54
United States
Message 1608580 - Posted: 3 Dec 2014, 8:50:32 UTC - in response to Message 1608115.  

Well your premis on on a heavier hand gun is false. The more mass the less movement you get. Back in my range days I could hold that Redhawk .44 magnum steady at 100 yards with iron sights. And hit 5 out of 6. My Ruger single six with the same lenght barrel ( 7 and 1/2 inches ) but in .22 rim fire My shots are about are all over the target at 50 yards. The differancs in weight is about two + pounds.

Doesn't a heavier gun tire you more quickly, making it harder to hold the gun steady when aiming?

Regardless, I'm a horrible shot. I would need serious training and much more gun experience in order to get my accuracy up. And I imagine that this is true for most people.


As far as the bang bang bang of a 9MM in a war game on a computer. ITs not even close to real life. I have never seen any gamer wearing ear protection while playing a game.
I made the mistake of shooting a .38 special with out ear prtotection only once!
You really need to go to a range and fire real firearms not airsoft ones or gamer ones.

Thats what I've been saying. Games are not real and their depiction of fire arms is unrealistic at best. Hence the idea that playing lots of games makes you a better shooter is just nonsense.

Well yeah it does get tiresome, If you try to hold it for 5 minutes with out shooting.
Try holding a one pound weight wiht your arm strecthed out for 5 minutes.
The whole point is to acguire your target and hit center of mass. That means that what ever you are shooting at you hit center of mass.
[/quote]

Old James
ID: 1608580 · Report as offensive
Profile Wiggo
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 34744
Credit: 261,360,520
RAC: 489
Australia
Message 1610126 - Posted: 7 Dec 2014, 0:58:43 UTC

Then there are the bored young people with revolvers. :-(

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/ohio-police-confirm-rashaun-mccrae-died-playing-russian-roueltte/story-fnh81jut-1227147393055

OHIO police have confirmed that an 18 year old man who died last week had been playing Russian roulette.
ID: 1610126 · Report as offensive
Profile betreger Project Donor
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Jun 99
Posts: 11360
Credit: 29,581,041
RAC: 66
United States
Message 1610128 - Posted: 7 Dec 2014, 1:13:05 UTC - in response to Message 1610126.  

Then there are the bored young people with revolvers. :-(

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/ohio-police-confirm-rashaun-mccrae-died-playing-russian-roueltte/story-fnh81jut-1227147393055

OHIO police have confirmed that an 18 year old man who died last week had been playing Russian roulette.

That is a Darwin thing.
ID: 1610128 · Report as offensive
Profile The Simonator
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 18 Nov 04
Posts: 5700
Credit: 3,855,702
RAC: 50
United Kingdom
Message 1610777 - Posted: 8 Dec 2014, 12:07:09 UTC - in response to Message 1610126.  

Then there are the bored young people with revolvers. :-(

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/ohio-police-confirm-rashaun-mccrae-died-playing-russian-roueltte/story-fnh81jut-1227147393055

OHIO police have confirmed that an 18 year old man who died last week had been playing Russian roulette.

Natural selection!
Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.
ID: 1610777 · Report as offensive
Profile KWSN - MajorKong
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 5 Jan 00
Posts: 2892
Credit: 1,499,890
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1612301 - Posted: 11 Dec 2014, 17:35:52 UTC - in response to Message 1612242.  

INTRESTING:

Pew found that 52 percent of Americans say Second Amendment rights are more important than gun control

Pew found 54 percent of blacks now say firearms protect people from being victims of crimes, compared to 41 percent who say they are a public safety risk. Just two years ago, only 29 percent of blacks said guns were a public safety boon.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/10/support-gun-rights-highest-point-two-decades/#ixzz3LbJiaTDe

Black People. The Victims of Most Violent Crimes...

Perhaps there is no real 'Double standard on violence'.


You may have a valid point in this Clyde...


But the 'double standard' I was refering to when I started this series of threads was:

Why are murders using firearms considered different/worse than murders using other methods...


After all, murdered is murdered and just as wrong no mattered if the weapon used is a gun, a knife, a club, a motor vehicle, chemicals... or even bare hands...

Why?
ID: 1612301 · Report as offensive
Profile betreger Project Donor
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Jun 99
Posts: 11360
Credit: 29,581,041
RAC: 66
United States
Message 1612309 - Posted: 11 Dec 2014, 17:47:01 UTC - in response to Message 1612301.  

After all, murdered is murdered and just as wrong no mattered if the weapon used is a gun, a knife, a club, a motor vehicle, chemicals... or even bare hands...

Why?

Major as you very well know guns are a very efficient way to kill, bare hands and knives are less.
ID: 1612309 · Report as offensive
Profile betreger Project Donor
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Jun 99
Posts: 11360
Credit: 29,581,041
RAC: 66
United States
Message 1612429 - Posted: 11 Dec 2014, 22:33:19 UTC - in response to Message 1612328.  

Clyde you are being silly, if they were efficent armys and the police would use them.
ID: 1612429 · Report as offensive
Profile janneseti
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Oct 09
Posts: 14106
Credit: 655,366
RAC: 0
Sweden
Message 1612450 - Posted: 11 Dec 2014, 22:54:45 UTC - in response to Message 1612309.  
Last modified: 11 Dec 2014, 22:58:37 UTC

After all, murdered is murdered and just as wrong no mattered if the weapon used is a gun, a knife, a club, a motor vehicle, chemicals... or even bare hands...

Why?

Major as you very well know guns are a very efficient way to kill, bare hands and knives are less.

What?
Guns and knives do the same efficient way to kill.
A knife stabbing is probably more lethal than a gun wound.
ID: 1612450 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1612471 - Posted: 11 Dec 2014, 23:14:57 UTC - in response to Message 1612450.  

After all, murdered is murdered and just as wrong no mattered if the weapon used is a gun, a knife, a club, a motor vehicle, chemicals... or even bare hands...

Why?

Major as you very well know guns are a very efficient way to kill, bare hands and knives are less.

What?
Guns and knives do the same efficient way to kill.
A knife stabbing is probably more lethal than a gun wound.

Especially if you dip the knife in the same stuff you put on a punji stick.
ID: 1612471 · Report as offensive
Profile James Sotherden
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 May 99
Posts: 10436
Credit: 110,373,059
RAC: 54
United States
Message 1612657 - Posted: 12 Dec 2014, 8:05:13 UTC - in response to Message 1612429.  

Clyde you are being silly, if they were efficent armys and the police would use them.

They do use them. When your out of ammo in close quarters combat. You use what you have. A knife, Machette, Axe, And probaly the best an entrenching tool.
And if we are being honest here. id rather take a bullet to the heart or brain than have an arm hacked off and bleed out.
[/quote]

Old James
ID: 1612657 · Report as offensive
Profile Wiggo
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 34744
Credit: 261,360,520
RAC: 489
Australia
Message 1614353 - Posted: 15 Dec 2014, 20:59:51 UTC
Last modified: 15 Dec 2014, 21:00:27 UTC

Just in here.

A military veteran shoots and kills 6 family members, 3 others seriously wounded.

http://www.news.com.au/world/six-family-members-killed-by-military-veteran-in-us-shootings/story-fndir2ev-1227157546311

He's still "still at large" at the time of the report.

A very sad day.
ID: 1614353 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1614380 - Posted: 15 Dec 2014, 22:04:07 UTC - in response to Message 1614353.  

Just in here.

A military veteran shoots and kills 6 family members, 3 others seriously wounded.

http://www.news.com.au/world/six-family-members-killed-by-military-veteran-in-us-shootings/story-fndir2ev-1227157546311

He's still "still at large" at the time of the report.

A very sad day.

First thought is yet another VA failure.

My condolences to the families affected.
ID: 1614380 · Report as offensive
Sirius B Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 24877
Credit: 3,081,182
RAC: 7
Ireland
Message 1615972 - Posted: 18 Dec 2014, 22:05:13 UTC

If someone points a gun at you & fires 8 rounds, would that be classed as attempted murder (or if you're killed - Murder)?

London shoot-out footage released

..."both in north London, were found not guilty of attempted murder but guilty of possessing a firearm and ammunition with intent to endanger life."
ID: 1615972 · Report as offensive
Profile janneseti
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Oct 09
Posts: 14106
Credit: 655,366
RAC: 0
Sweden
Message 1615983 - Posted: 18 Dec 2014, 22:32:23 UTC - in response to Message 1615972.  
Last modified: 18 Dec 2014, 22:39:00 UTC

If someone points a gun at you & fires 8 rounds, would that be classed as attempted murder (or if you're killed - Murder)?
London shoot-out footage released
..."both in north London, were found not guilty of attempted murder but guilty of possessing a firearm and ammunition with intent to endanger life."

Probably classified as manslaughter if some one was killed.
In this case none where killed.
ID: 1615983 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 . . . 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · Next

Message boards : Politics : Double standard on violence #2


 
©2024 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.