Pulses, but too bright for pulsar. ET beacon? (new nuSTAR discovery)

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Message 1583551 - Posted: 8 Oct 2014, 18:13:27 UTC

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Message 1583585 - Posted: 8 Oct 2014, 19:15:24 UTC

Too bright to be anything other than a pulsar, if the source is actually in that other galaxy. The official nuSTAR site is certainly indicating it's an extremely strong pulsar.

That level of high-energy X-rays of course rules out any thought of life as we know it in the vicinity of the source.
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Message 1583589 - Posted: 8 Oct 2014, 19:22:27 UTC - in response to Message 1583585.  
Last modified: 8 Oct 2014, 19:23:25 UTC

Well, brightness rather from black hole than pulsar, quite strange object.
I mean if it's black hole still, then pulses are artifical => beacon. Surely no life near but this doesn't rules out artifical origin (if civilization advanced enough to master SUCH beacon... ;) )
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Message 1583698 - Posted: 8 Oct 2014, 22:31:10 UTC
Last modified: 8 Oct 2014, 22:35:44 UTC

There is a serous problem with this object. At only about 1.5 solar masses, it would have to draw in more surrounding material than a much more massive object, a black hole, does. Otherwise, there is no known way to account for the high energy x-rays observed from it. These are about ten times as intense, as in a typical pulsar.
The possibility that this is an example of stellar engineering by some super-advanced extraterrestrial race can not be ruled out at this point. They could have arranged to force-feed the pulsar with much larger amounts of material than could be expected in a natural astrophysical scenario.
That could make for a very conspicuous beacon, of sorts. It might serve some other purpose, or a combination of purposes.
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Message 1583869 - Posted: 9 Oct 2014, 10:32:44 UTC - in response to Message 1583698.  

That could make for a very conspicuous beacon,


One would presume that the "Signal" would have been monitored to see if it contained any modulation or other forms of information.
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Message 1583959 - Posted: 9 Oct 2014, 15:52:08 UTC
Last modified: 9 Oct 2014, 15:55:56 UTC

Pulsars typically have certain transient changes entrained in their pulsings. These could be considered modulations, of a sort. Explanations for some of these changes have been proposed. They are assumed to have something to do with changing physical conditions on rotating neutron stars.
Modulations indicating intelligent intervention may be fairly subtle, and are not generally expected. For both reasons, I suspect that finding these modulations would take some time, should they actually exist.

The information given out about this object indicates a pulse repetition rate of 1.37 seconds, which is fairly typical for a pulsar. Should this period change over the short term, in a manner unlike that of other pulsars, a case might be made for the intelligent intervention of a technically advanced extraterrestrial race.
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Message 1585334 - Posted: 11 Oct 2014, 17:07:58 UTC

As we have seen, in accretion pulsars, which this object is assumed to be, an unusually high x-ray output should indicate a very large amount of in-falling matter from its companion star. This should also mean that this matter will impart a high rate of spin to this object, yet it appears to rotate at the quite leisurely rate, for pulsars, of 1.37 seconds.
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Message 1589435 - Posted: 20 Oct 2014, 21:10:00 UTC

It is also possible that this could be a small stellar mass black hole with a distinct magnetic field still that happens to be creating jets that sweep acroos our line of sight rather akin to a standard Pulsar. It could be a Magnetar or it could be something that sits at the very upper edge of Neutron stars and the lowest limit for singularities.

I get rather tired of everything we can't explain being a black hole, such a lazy get out of jail free card that. I am sure research will soon prove what the cause of this unusually bright object is and then we will all know it is not an alien beacon!!
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Message 1589712 - Posted: 21 Oct 2014, 13:12:13 UTC - in response to Message 1583698.  

There is a serous problem with this object. At only about 1.5 solar masses, it would have to draw in more surrounding material than a much more massive object, a black hole, does. Otherwise, there is no known way to account for the high energy x-rays observed from it. These are about ten times as intense, as in a typical pulsar.
The possibility that this is an example of stellar engineering by some super-advanced extraterrestrial race can not be ruled out at this point. They could have arranged to force-feed the pulsar with much larger amounts of material than could be expected in a natural astrophysical scenario.
That could make for a very conspicuous beacon, of sorts. It might serve some other purpose, or a combination of purposes.



If the technology exists to do that, why use a SOL beacon? We don't warn ants of imminent danger.

If it is not a natural object, is this confirmation that the SOL is absolute?

or, maybe it's a trap? A duck blind...

Lt
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Message 1591427 - Posted: 24 Oct 2014, 16:20:01 UTC - in response to Message 1589435.  
Last modified: 24 Oct 2014, 16:20:38 UTC

It is also possible that this could be a small stellar mass black hole with a distinct magnetic field still that happens to be creating jets that sweep acroos our line of sight rather akin to a standard Pulsar. It could be a Magnetar or it could be something that sits at the very upper edge of Neutron stars and the lowest limit for singularities.

I get rather tired of everything we can't explain being a black hole, such a lazy get out of jail free card that. I am sure research will soon prove what the cause of this unusually bright object is and then we will all know it is not an alien beacon!!

I agree, that a magnetar is a possible explanation for this object. I find it interesting, though, that all known magnetars have spin rates in the range of ~ 5 to 12 seconds, whereas this newly discovered object rotates in only 1.37 seconds. I doubt that a stellar mass black hole is involved, as the mass of this object is only ~ 1.5 times that of our Sun. A black hole, it seems, should be substantially more massive than that.
I am not so sure that research will prove that this object is [/i]not[i] an extraterrestrial beacon, or an example of some form of advanced astro-engineering.
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Message 1591446 - Posted: 24 Oct 2014, 16:49:04 UTC - in response to Message 1589712.  
Last modified: 24 Oct 2014, 16:51:03 UTC

There is a serous problem with this object. At only about 1.5 solar masses, it would have to draw in more surrounding material than a much more massive object, a black hole, does. Otherwise, there is no known way to account for the high energy x-rays observed from it. These are about ten times as intense, as in a typical pulsar.
The possibility that this is an example of stellar engineering by some super-advanced extraterrestrial race can not be ruled out at this point. They could have arranged to force-feed the pulsar with much larger amounts of material than could be expected in a natural astrophysical scenario.
That could make for a very conspicuous beacon, of sorts. It might serve some other purpose, or a combination of purposes.



If the technology exists to do that, why use a SOL beacon? We don't warn ants of imminent danger.

If it is not a natural object, is this confirmation that the SOL is absolute?

or, maybe it's a trap? A duck blind...

Lt

A beacon with a signal limited to the speed of light seems appropriate for communicating with a civilization at our level of technology. We are not, I believe, able to detect superluminal signals, at least we never have, to my knowledge. Modifying the energy signature of a pulsar to announce their presence does not, it seems, demonstrate that effective faster than light signaling is impossible.
This is not necessarily a case comparable to humans communicating with ants. There is presumably a developmental continuum in the galaxy, ranging from civilizations less technically able than our own, up to super-advanced ones. A civilization a mere thousand years our senior might not think of us as 'ants', but as an interesting fledgling race.

As for warning us of danger, I'm not clear about what the danger is, to which you refer. I am not aware of any grounds for thinking that a beacon would be a trap of some sort. We have already made ourselves conspicuous to any galaxy traveling species.
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Message 1592953 - Posted: 27 Oct 2014, 14:00:32 UTC - in response to Message 1591446.  

Don't you think that u look at this from only 2 angles:
1. they are modifieing the pulsar so they can signal sthg
2. that is a new astronomical phenomenon

Though the 2nd one is (maybe) correct. The 1st one doesn't give me any indication that it's sane.
Why?
Well, why would someone alter the pulses from it's star? What does that so called "advanced civilization" GAIN by getting a stronger & quicker spin of pulsar?
Example: you don't buy gasoline to waste it on some donuts & burn offs...you buy gasoline to drive from A to B...preferably in a nice & quick way...

So, unless you give me an idea what pulsar can generate for the civilization, there is no signaling...they pretty much want to make a society which is hungry for energy as efficent as they can get.... ;)
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Message 1593097 - Posted: 27 Oct 2014, 20:52:56 UTC - in response to Message 1592953.  

Don't you think that u look at this from only 2 angles:
1. they are modifieing the pulsar so they can signal sthg
2. that is a new astronomical phenomenon

Though the 2nd one is (maybe) correct. The 1st one doesn't give me any indication that it's sane.
Why?
Well, why would someone alter the pulses from it's star? What does that so called "advanced civilization" GAIN by getting a stronger & quicker spin of pulsar?
Example: you don't buy gasoline to waste it on some donuts & burn offs...you buy gasoline to drive from A to B...preferably in a nice & quick way...

So, unless you give me an idea what pulsar can generate for the civilization, there is no signaling...they pretty much want to make a society which is hungry for energy as efficent as they can get.... ;)


This object could be a newly observed astronomical phenomenon. Perhaps a pulsar transitioning into a magnetar. We know little about such transitions, so don't really know if they should look like this object or not. We would have to assume that a very strong magnetic field is already present around the pulsar, in order to account for the energy output.
The concentration of a great deal of energy in a very small space like this always suggests the very interesting [/i] possibility of an astroengineering project. The steady pulsing and very high power output could serve as an attention getting beacon. As I have suggested above, there may be intelligent content subtly modulating these x ray emissions. We might, with sufficient attention, discover these.

The pulsations of the object have not necessarily been speeded up. I merely noted that they are occurring at a faster rate than in magnetars. They are at a fairly typical rate for an ordinary pulsar.

There might be other uses far these intense x rays. What these uses might be isn't clear. Perhaps these X rays can be converted into useful energy by an extraterrestrial civilization. There is every possibility that we could not comprehend the technology of a civilization in space that is thousands or millions of years our senior.
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Message 1596343 - Posted: 3 Nov 2014, 7:11:02 UTC - in response to Message 1593097.  

Don't you think that u look at this from only 2 angles:
1. they are modifieing the pulsar so they can signal sthg
2. that is a new astronomical phenomenon

Though the 2nd one is (maybe) correct. The 1st one doesn't give me any indication that it's sane.
Why?
Well, why would someone alter the pulses from it's star? What does that so called "advanced civilization" GAIN by getting a stronger & quicker spin of pulsar?
Example: you don't buy gasoline to waste it on some donuts & burn offs...you buy gasoline to drive from A to B...preferably in a nice & quick way...

So, unless you give me an idea what pulsar can generate for the civilization, there is no signaling...they pretty much want to make a society which is hungry for energy as efficent as they can get.... ;)


This object could be a newly observed astronomical phenomenon. Perhaps a pulsar transitioning into a magnetar. We know little about such transitions, so don't really know if they should look like this object or not. We would have to assume that a very strong magnetic field is already present around the pulsar, in order to account for the energy output.
The concentration of a great deal of energy in a very small space like this always suggests the very interesting [/i] possibility of an astroengineering project. The steady pulsing and very high power output could serve as an attention getting beacon. As I have suggested above, there may be intelligent content subtly modulating these x ray emissions. We might, with sufficient attention, discover these.

The pulsations of the object have not necessarily been speeded up. I merely noted that they are occurring at a faster rate than in magnetars. They are at a fairly typical rate for an ordinary pulsar.

There might be other uses far these intense x rays. What these uses might be isn't clear. Perhaps these X rays can be converted into useful energy by an extraterrestrial civilization. There is every possibility that we could not comprehend the technology of a civilization in space that is thousands or millions of years our senior.


U r forgeting one small thing: "war device"!
Iit might also be some war weapon that modifies pulsar to emit more Xrays...and kill the civilization on that system! Not all advanced civilizations r peacefull, which history suggests of our man kind...why do we expect Utopia from an advanced alien civilzation?

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Message 1596354 - Posted: 3 Nov 2014, 8:03:05 UTC - in response to Message 1596343.  
Last modified: 3 Nov 2014, 8:10:13 UTC

Not all advanced civilizations r peacefull, which history suggests of our man kind...why do we expect Utopia from an advanced alien civilzation?

I would say the history of own civilization just proves reverse.
Being in wars still we much less advanced than we could be. I would not name our civilization "advanced" in almost any sense of this word.
Quite possibe there is some kind of natural selection exists for civilizations to become stellar one. And our civilization fails it spectracularly so far.

EDIT: why I think such natural selection takes place: just cause our ansestors should cooperate or die w/o food to successfully solve tasks outside own planet planetary-wise cooperation required. Until it will be reached not too much could be done. And once it will be reached corresponding behavioral changes will be so deeply embedded in planetary culture that "war device" will be bad joke not acceptable in respectable society. Just look at our culture to understand how far we from stars...
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Message 1596460 - Posted: 3 Nov 2014, 15:20:20 UTC

Bearing in mind what has been written, it seems unlikely that this pulsar would be in the same solar system as that of the supposed civilization, which might have modified it to serve as a communications device. A pulsar is a neutron star. It has collapsed in on itself and ended its life as main sequence star. Main sequence stars are believed, with very good reason, to necessary for habitable planets.
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Message 1596529 - Posted: 3 Nov 2014, 18:03:57 UTC - in response to Message 1596460.  

Bearing in mind what has been written, it seems unlikely that this pulsar would be in the same solar system as that of the supposed civilization, which might have modified it to serve as a communications device. A pulsar is a neutron star. It has collapsed in on itself and ended its life as main sequence star. Main sequence stars are believed, with very good reason, to necessary for habitable planets.


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Message 1597073 - Posted: 5 Nov 2014, 6:48:09 UTC - in response to Message 1596460.  

Bearing in mind what has been written, it seems unlikely that this pulsar would be in the same solar system as that of the supposed civilization, which might have modified it to serve as a communications device. A pulsar is a neutron star. It has collapsed in on itself and ended its life as main sequence star. Main sequence stars are believed, with very good reason, to necessary for habitable planets.


Notice that tha beacon might be:
1. a trap, for curious
2. a warning signal, like lighthouse
3. a beacon signal, for some civilization...some orientational device in space!
4. a war star weapon, of some advanced civilization
5. natural phenomenon, that we don't know about

causion first & then we can build from that.

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Message 1629778 - Posted: 19 Jan 2015, 12:49:26 UTC - in response to Message 1597073.  
Last modified: 19 Jan 2015, 12:50:02 UTC


causion first & then we can build from that.


Yeah, that's why we will not be interstellar race at least for next few generations. Demolish then study remnants - safest way...
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