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Profile Fred J. Verster
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Message 1591217 - Posted: 24 Oct 2014, 6:18:51 UTC - in response to Message 1591054.  
Last modified: 24 Oct 2014, 6:46:06 UTC

Hi, I started some 6 weeks ago crunching SETI MB 7.0 & 7.03 and AP 7.04 WU's.
Running stock app. BOINC 7.2.42 on an I7-2600 and 2 ATI 5870 GPU's.

offset=0&show_names=0&state=0&appid=20

show_names=0&state=0&appid=20

I hope my links are correct?!
Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
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Message 1591295 - Posted: 24 Oct 2014, 10:09:00 UTC
Last modified: 24 Oct 2014, 10:09:16 UTC

OK; with the release of AP 7, I upgraded Lunatics from 0.41 to 0.43. I suspended all projects, and exited BOINC to make changes to app_config.xml. Modified app_config.xml to allow 2 AP 6 and 7 WU's to crunch at a time on my NVIDIA GTX760. Then, restarted BOINC, and resumed all projects, and hit Update on SETI and Beta.

Still, SETI and Beta show that they will only crunch 1 at a time. WHY??? How long does it take for the change in app_config.xml to take effect???

app_config.xml - (SETI Main)

<app_config>
<app>
<name>astropulse_v7</name>
<max_concurrent>2</max_concurrent>
<gpu_versions>
<gpu_usage>.5</gpu_usage>
<cpu_usage>.5</cpu_usage>
</gpu_versions>
</app>
<app>
<name>astropulse_v6</name>
<max_concurrent>2</max_concurrent>
<gpu_versions>
<gpu_usage>.5</gpu_usage>
<cpu_usage>.5</cpu_usage>
</gpu_versions>
</app>
<app>
<name>setiathome_v7</name>
<max_concurrent>3</max_concurrent>
<gpu_versions>
<gpu_usage>0.33</gpu_usage>
<cpu_usage>0.04</cpu_usage>
</gpu_versions>
</app>
</app_config>


app_config.xml - (SETI Beta)

<app_config>
<app>
<name>astropulse_v6</name>
<max_concurrent>2</max_concurrent>
<gpu_versions>
<gpu_usage>.5</gpu_usage>
<cpu_usage>.5</cpu_usage>
</gpu_versions>
</app>
<app>
<name>astropulse_v7</name>
<max_concurrent>2</max_concurrent>
<gpu_versions>
<gpu_usage>.5</gpu_usage>
<cpu_usage>.5</cpu_usage>
</gpu_versions>
</app>
<app>
<name>setiathome_v7</name>
<max_concurrent>3</max_concurrent>
<gpu_versions>
<gpu_usage>.33</gpu_usage>
<cpu_usage>0.04</cpu_usage>
</gpu_versions>
</app>
</app_config>


Have I done something wrong? Or, does it just take awhile for BOINC to update what the app_config.xml says should be crunched???


Thanks everyone.


TL
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Message 1591297 - Posted: 24 Oct 2014, 10:20:58 UTC - in response to Message 1591295.  

Still, SETI and Beta show that they will only crunch 1 at a time.

Please confirm that you mean that Seti and Seti Beta are both crunching one Wu at a time, at the same time,

Or that Seti Or Seti Beta Crunches one Wu at a time, ie one or the other.

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Message 1591428 - Posted: 24 Oct 2014, 16:20:02 UTC - in response to Message 1591295.  

Seems to me that the <max_concurrent> lines might be your problem. If I recall, that limits the total number of tasks that the application (i.e., astropulse_v7, astropulse_v6, setiathome_v7) can run on your machine, not the total number for a given GPU. You should probably remove those lines.
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Message 1591458 - Posted: 24 Oct 2014, 17:22:09 UTC

Also, where did you put those app_config files?

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Message 1591484 - Posted: 24 Oct 2014, 18:33:33 UTC - in response to Message 1591466.  

Hmm, AP WU's from 2014 tapes seems to be extremely noisy, at least those I have crunched today (unfortunately with totally new settings for today on the GPU).

A majority of all the ones I have crunched so far today, have a very high pulse count.

Since many of them are still waiting for a wingman, I do not know if there's an issue with my GPU, or if they really are that noisy.

Time will tell I guess....

I have been seeing a large volume of high pulses and blanking recently.
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Message 1591688 - Posted: 25 Oct 2014, 1:53:13 UTC - in response to Message 1591297.  

Still, SETI and Beta show that they will only crunch 1 at a time.

Please confirm that you mean that Seti and Seti Beta are both crunching one Wu at a time, at the same time,

Or that Seti Or Seti Beta Crunches one Wu at a time, ie one or the other.

Claggy


Claggy,

My SETI Main for MB crunches 3 WU's at a time; as set by my app_config.xml. I wanted to set my app_config.xml to also crunch 2 AP WU's at a time - be they AP 6 or AP 7. (See app_config.xml in last post.) I thought I set the app_config.xml correctly to achieve this goal.


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Message 1591691 - Posted: 25 Oct 2014, 1:57:05 UTC - in response to Message 1591458.  

Also, where did you put those app_config files?



For SETI Main:

C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\BOINC\projects\setiathome.berkeley.edu


For SETI Beta:

C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\BOINC\projects\setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu_beta


They work fine for MB; I flawlessly get 3 Wu's crunching at a time for SETI Main and Beta. I just want to get them working for AP as well.


TL
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Message 1591692 - Posted: 25 Oct 2014, 1:59:26 UTC - in response to Message 1591428.  

Seems to me that the <max_concurrent> lines might be your problem. If I recall, that limits the total number of tasks that the application (i.e., astropulse_v7, astropulse_v6, setiathome_v7) can run on your machine, not the total number for a given GPU. You should probably remove those lines.


Jeff,

I got the <max_current> lines from Joe Segur when I asked about creating an app_config.xml for Beta. The changes I made to the app_config.xml for MB for Main and Beta work flawlessly. They should also work, then, for AP - shouldn't they???


TL
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Message 1591694 - Posted: 25 Oct 2014, 2:11:20 UTC - in response to Message 1591692.  

Seems to me that the <max_concurrent> lines might be your problem. If I recall, that limits the total number of tasks that the application (i.e., astropulse_v7, astropulse_v6, setiathome_v7) can run on your machine, not the total number for a given GPU. You should probably remove those lines.


Jeff,

I got the <max_current> lines from Joe Segur when I asked about creating an app_config.xml for Beta. The changes I made to the app_config.xml for MB for Main and Beta work flawlessly. They should also work, then, for AP - shouldn't they???


TL

Yeah, I guess if you only have the one GPU and you're not running any APs on your CPU, it shouldn't make any difference.
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Message 1591705 - Posted: 25 Oct 2014, 2:39:47 UTC - in response to Message 1591694.  

Seems to me that the <max_concurrent> lines might be your problem. If I recall, that limits the total number of tasks that the application (i.e., astropulse_v7, astropulse_v6, setiathome_v7) can run on your machine, not the total number for a given GPU. You should probably remove those lines.


Jeff,

I got the <max_current> lines from Joe Segur when I asked about creating an app_config.xml for Beta. The changes I made to the app_config.xml for MB for Main and Beta work flawlessly. They should also work, then, for AP - shouldn't they???


TL

Yeah, I guess if you only have the one GPU and you're not running any APs on your CPU, it shouldn't make any difference.


Yes, I'm only crunching GPU, no CPU is used; except to feed the GPU. :-)
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Message 1591707 - Posted: 25 Oct 2014, 3:02:27 UTC - in response to Message 1591705.  

Seems to me that the <max_concurrent> lines might be your problem. If I recall, that limits the total number of tasks that the application (i.e., astropulse_v7, astropulse_v6, setiathome_v7) can run on your machine, not the total number for a given GPU. You should probably remove those lines.


Jeff,

I got the <max_current> lines from Joe Segur when I asked about creating an app_config.xml for Beta. The changes I made to the app_config.xml for MB for Main and Beta work flawlessly. They should also work, then, for AP - shouldn't they???


TL

Yeah, I guess if you only have the one GPU and you're not running any APs on your CPU, it shouldn't make any difference.


Yes, I'm only crunching GPU, no CPU is used; except to feed the GPU. :-)

I believe for each task you run you need to have one CPU core free. Of course I am only talking about tasks related to this thread
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Message 1591729 - Posted: 25 Oct 2014, 4:03:25 UTC - in response to Message 1591705.  
Last modified: 25 Oct 2014, 4:13:02 UTC

You didn't mention whether, when a single AP task is running on your gpu, an MB task is also running. Based on your app_config.xml, I'd expect that to be the case.

I've found that BOINC is sometimes unpredictable when a host is running mixed AP and MB, and the <gpu_usage> values are different for the two types. On my T7400, which currently has a GTX 780, a GTX 670, and a GTX 660, I've tried to set up the app_config.xml to run either 3 MB tasks on each GPU, or 1 AP and 2 MB tasks, which I've found makes about the most efficient use of those GPUs.

Theoretically, <gpu_usage> of .34 for the AP and .33 for the MB should do that, and it does.....most of the time. When an AP comes to the top of the queue, it will start up when an MB finishes, if there isn't already an AP running on that GPU. Once all 3 GPUs have a single AP running, BOINC will usually bypass APs and replace an MB that finishes with the next MB in line. However, sometimes it doesn't do that. In those cases, when an MB finishes on a GPU that already has an AP running, it won't start the next MB but will instead wait until the last MB finishes and then launch a second AP on that GPU, which makes that GPU noticeably underutilized.

So, sometimes I just set both AP and MB <gpu_usage> values to .33 and take my chances that I won't wind up with 3 APs running at the same time on one GPU. That's usually not a problem when APs are scattered in the queue, as is usually the case, but every once in a while the scheduler sends a whole block of APs at once, or on consecutive work fetches.

In any event, with your settings, you might not be able to get 2 APs running at the same time unless the 2nd and 3rd MBs finish at exactly the same time, or if BOINC decides to wait for all MBs to finish in order to launch the 2nd AP.

EDIT: Actually, the more I think about it, the more it seems the difficulty might be in launching the first AP, since when a single MB finishes, it only frees up .33 of a GPU, while the AP needs .5 GPU to start. BOINC would have to wait for a second MB to finish before it could launch the AP.
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Message 1591734 - Posted: 25 Oct 2014, 4:23:38 UTC - in response to Message 1591707.  

Seems to me that the <max_concurrent> lines might be your problem. If I recall, that limits the total number of tasks that the application (i.e., astropulse_v7, astropulse_v6, setiathome_v7) can run on your machine, not the total number for a given GPU. You should probably remove those lines.


Jeff,

I got the <max_current> lines from Joe Segur when I asked about creating an app_config.xml for Beta. The changes I made to the app_config.xml for MB for Main and Beta work flawlessly. They should also work, then, for AP - shouldn't they???


TL

Yeah, I guess if you only have the one GPU and you're not running any APs on your CPU, it shouldn't make any difference.


Yes, I'm only crunching GPU, no CPU is used; except to feed the GPU. :-)

I believe for each task you run you need to have one CPU core free. Of course I am only talking about tasks related to this thread


I have a dual core CPU. One core feeds the GPU the other does nothing, I don't crunch on CPU at all; so, one core is ALWAYS free.
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Message 1591735 - Posted: 25 Oct 2014, 4:25:00 UTC - in response to Message 1591729.  

You didn't mention whether, when a single AP task is running on your gpu, an MB task is also running. Based on your app_config.xml, I'd expect that to be the case.

I've found that BOINC is sometimes unpredictable when a host is running mixed AP and MB, and the <gpu_usage> values are different for the two types. On my T7400, which currently has a GTX 780, a GTX 670, and a GTX 660, I've tried to set up the app_config.xml to run either 3 MB tasks on each GPU, or 1 AP and 2 MB tasks, which I've found makes about the most efficient use of those GPUs.

Theoretically, <gpu_usage> of .34 for the AP and .33 for the MB should do that, and it does.....most of the time. When an AP comes to the top of the queue, it will start up when an MB finishes, if there isn't already an AP running on that GPU. Once all 3 GPUs have a single AP running, BOINC will usually bypass APs and replace an MB that finishes with the next MB in line. However, sometimes it doesn't do that. In those cases, when an MB finishes on a GPU that already has an AP running, it won't start the next MB but will instead wait until the last MB finishes and then launch a second AP on that GPU, which makes that GPU noticeably underutilized.

So, sometimes I just set both AP and MB <gpu_usage> values to .33 and take my chances that I won't wind up with 3 APs running at the same time on one GPU. That's usually not a problem when APs are scattered in the queue, as is usually the case, but every once in a while the scheduler sends a whole block of APs at once, or on consecutive work fetches.

In any event, with your settings, you might not be able to get 2 APs running at the same time unless the 2nd and 3rd MBs finish at exactly the same time, or if BOINC decides to wait for all MBs to finish in order to launch the 2nd AP.

EDIT: Actually, the more I think about it, the more it seems the difficulty might be in launching the first AP, since when a single MB finishes, it only frees up .33 of a GPU, while the AP needs .5 GPU to start. BOINC would have to wait for a second MB to finish before it could launch the AP.


When AP runs MB doesn't. So, I would expect that 2 AP's could run at the same time when MB isn't doing anything.
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Message 1591739 - Posted: 25 Oct 2014, 4:37:52 UTC - in response to Message 1591735.  

When AP runs MB doesn't. So, I would expect that 2 AP's could run at the same time when MB isn't doing anything.

With your app_config settings, that seems odd. Are you sure BOINC is actually reading the app_config.xml file? When you start BOINC, or if you select "Read config files" on the Advanced menu, does your Event Log show a "Found app_config.xml" entry?
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Message 1591755 - Posted: 25 Oct 2014, 5:05:28 UTC - in response to Message 1591739.  

When AP runs MB doesn't. So, I would expect that 2 AP's could run at the same time when MB isn't doing anything.

With your app_config settings, that seems odd. Are you sure BOINC is actually reading the app_config.xml file? When you start BOINC, or if you select "Read config files" on the Advanced menu, does your Event Log show a "Found app_config.xml" entry?


I got BOINC to finally re-read the app_config.xml. It is now crunching 2 AP WU's at a time. I will monitor for any problems.

Thanks everyone. :-)
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Message 1591760 - Posted: 25 Oct 2014, 5:19:25 UTC - in response to Message 1591729.  

You didn't mention whether, when a single AP task is running on your gpu, an MB task is also running. Based on your app_config.xml, I'd expect that to be the case.

I've found that BOINC is sometimes unpredictable when a host is running mixed AP and MB, and the <gpu_usage> values are different for the two types. On my T7400, which currently has a GTX 780, a GTX 670, and a GTX 660, I've tried to set up the app_config.xml to run either 3 MB tasks on each GPU, or 1 AP and 2 MB tasks, which I've found makes about the most efficient use of those GPUs.

Theoretically, <gpu_usage> of .34 for the AP and .33 for the MB should do that, and it does.....most of the time. When an AP comes to the top of the queue, it will start up when an MB finishes, if there isn't already an AP running on that GPU. Once all 3 GPUs have a single AP running, BOINC will usually bypass APs and replace an MB that finishes with the next MB in line. However, sometimes it doesn't do that. In those cases, when an MB finishes on a GPU that already has an AP running, it won't start the next MB but will instead wait until the last MB finishes and then launch a second AP on that GPU, which makes that GPU noticeably underutilized.

So, sometimes I just set both AP and MB <gpu_usage> values to .33 and take my chances that I won't wind up with 3 APs running at the same time on one GPU. That's usually not a problem when APs are scattered in the queue, as is usually the case, but every once in a while the scheduler sends a whole block of APs at once, or on consecutive work fetches.

In any event, with your settings, you might not be able to get 2 APs running at the same time unless the 2nd and 3rd MBs finish at exactly the same time, or if BOINC decides to wait for all MBs to finish in order to launch the 2nd AP.

EDIT: Actually, the more I think about it, the more it seems the difficulty might be in launching the first AP, since when a single MB finishes, it only frees up .33 of a GPU, while the AP needs .5 GPU to start. BOINC would have to wait for a second MB to finish before it could launch the AP.


Scenario one Running 3 MB:
0.33 + 0.33 + 0-33 = 0-99. Now one MB quits -> only 0.33 + 0.33 = 0.66 running -> can start new AP. Now running 0.33+0.33+0.34=1.00 .

Scenario two Running one AP and two MB:
0.34 + 0.33 + 0.33 = 1.00- Now one MB finishes. Runnung 0.34 + 0.33 = 0.67. Can start a new MB or if an AP is scheduled to run next must wait for more free GPU.

Three: running 2 AP = 0.68. Must wait. After the other AP finishes can start AP or MB.
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Message 1591761 - Posted: 25 Oct 2014, 5:20:33 UTC - in response to Message 1591755.  

When AP runs MB doesn't. So, I would expect that 2 AP's could run at the same time when MB isn't doing anything.

With your app_config settings, that seems odd. Are you sure BOINC is actually reading the app_config.xml file? When you start BOINC, or if you select "Read config files" on the Advanced menu, does your Event Log show a "Found app_config.xml" entry?


I got BOINC to finally re-read the app_config.xml. It is now crunching 2 AP WU's at a time. I will monitor for any problems.

Thanks everyone. :-)

You're welcome. Glad you got it sorted out.
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Message 1591767 - Posted: 25 Oct 2014, 5:44:41 UTC - in response to Message 1591760.  

Scenario one Running 3 MB:
0.33 + 0.33 + 0-33 = 0-99. Now one MB quits -> only 0.33 + 0.33 = 0.66 running -> can start new AP. Now running 0.33+0.33+0.34=1.00 .

Scenario two Running one AP and two MB:
0.34 + 0.33 + 0.33 = 1.00- Now one MB finishes. Runnung 0.34 + 0.33 = 0.67. Can start a new MB or if an AP is scheduled to run next must wait for more free GPU.

Three: running 2 AP = 0.68. Must wait. After the other AP finishes can start AP or MB.

Scenarios one and three behave as expected. It's the "Scenario two" where BOINC is inconsistent. Most of the time, it will start a new MB whether or not an AP is the next task at the top of the queue (which is what I assume you mean by "scheduled"). That AP (and sometimes several APs) will remain in a "Ready to start" status until another AP finishes and frees up that .34 GPU. MBs that are lower in the queue will be started ahead of the APs if only .33 is available. Normally, the only time 2 APs run on a single GPU is when the 2 MBs running with the first AP happen to finish simultaneously (or nearly so).

But every once in awhile, BOINC lets an MB finish without starting another task of any kind. On rare occasions, it will actually do that on two different GPUs. Then, when the final MB finishes on one of the GPUs, it will go ahead and start a second AP on that GPU while simultaneously starting the next available MB on the second GPU. I've never been able to identify a pattern in any of this. :^)
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