As we all perhaps know, the amount of jobs available for people is steadily and rapidly decreasing. Thanks to massive innovations in the field of robotics and artificial intelligence, people are losing their jobs because computers and robots can do it better and cheaper.

But this poses a problem for the fundamental basis of our capitalist system, which is mass consumption. If people don't have jobs, and therefor don't have an income, they can't consume and the economy collapses.

So some people have proposed a nice alternative to welfare, namely the 'basic income'. This is a monthly payment everyone gets, with no strings attached. It would replace food stamps, welfare and all other social security programs and just leave you with this.

Do you think this would work?

As we all perhaps know, the amount of jobs available for people is steadily and rapidly decreasing. Thanks to massive innovations in the field of robotics and artificial intelligence, people are losing their jobs because computers and robots can do it better and cheaper.

But this poses a problem for the fundamental basis of our capitalist system, which is mass consumption. If people don't have jobs, and therefor don't have an income, they can't consume and the economy collapses.

So some people have proposed a nice alternative to welfare, namely the 'basic income'. This is a monthly payment everyone gets, with no strings attached. It would replace food stamps, welfare and all other social security programs and just leave you with this.

Do you think this would work?

A very good idea.
People tend to work for others anyway:)

Do you think this would work?

No it does not work. Where is the money going to come from ? It is going to come from the gainfully employed. It is a disincentive to get off of our toucases and get to work. Here in the united socialist republic of America we see what a disastrous effect is evidenced by creating an idle class out of 15% of our populace.

To those in need I would have the government supply surplus food to Church-run soup kitchens for which they could deduct the costs from their property and income taxes. Eating three bowls of slop each day to sustain life would be a spur to get a job and improve one's lot in life.

Do you think this would work?

No it does not work. Where is the money going to come from ?

Think again:)
Where does money comes from?
Even poor people pays taxes.
Why?

Do you think this would work?

No it does not work. Where is the money going to come from ?

Think again:)
Where does money comes from?
Even poor people pays taxes.
Why?

Not in Amerika! There they get earned income credit!

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Do you think this would work?

No it does not work. Where is the money going to come from ?

Think again:)
Where does money comes from?
Even poor people pays taxes.
Why?

Not in Amerika! There they get earned income credit!

?
But poor people consumes a LOT.
In fact a sort of a reverse Robin Hood tax!
It is called Value Added Tax. VAT MOMS.

Money comes from Consumption. No Consumption - No Money to Distribute.

The opposite is also true. No money - no consumption. At the same time, if you relieve peoples poverty by giving them essentially 'free' money, they can consume more as well, thus giving the economy a boost.

No it does not work. Where is the money going to come from ? It is going to come from the gainfully employed. It is a disincentive to get off of our toucases and get to work. Here in the united socialist republic of America we see what a disastrous effect is evidenced by creating an idle class out of 15% of our populace.

To those in need I would have the government supply surplus food to Church-run soup kitchens for which they could deduct the costs from their property and income taxes. Eating three bowls of slop each day to sustain life would be a spur to get a job and improve one's lot in life.

You work of an entirely flawed, blatantly wrong presumption, namely that poor people don't work and are poor because they dont work. Most poor people work harder and more hours than those rich people. Its just that it doesn't pay enough to cover their basic expenses. And then there is also the problem that we are moving toward the second age of the machine, aka the time were robots and computers have become so smart and cheap that they will replace pretty much all human labor. Now, tell me, what good are such inhuman incentives when there are literally no jobs. When we reached a point where 25-50% of the population is structurally unemployed because there are no jobs for them to do. An incentive 'to get a job' is pointless when those jobs just do not exist.

Another flawed premise you are assuming is that people like sitting on their ass all day. I can tell you from experience that doing that would make you depressed within a month. The vast majority of people would be bored out of their mind in no time. Providing them with a stable income would actually be an incentive for them to work. Perhaps they wouldn't work in the traditional sense, for money, but who knows. They might take care of their sick parents. They might start a hobby and find out they are pretty good painters. They might take up going to school again. By providing them with a stable basic income, you reduce the risk for people to be creative and try something new.

It should be noted that this has been tried in Canada in the 70's in a small town somewhere in Manitoba, and what they actually found was that people didnt stop working, and their health improved significantly.

Isn't this communism? Wasn't it already given a go? There are always strings attached to money that is just given to you by the government. Many people I know would gladly sit around doing nothing if provided with enough income to feed and shelter themselves. Then they would take that income and buy drugs. I know because it is already happening. Maybe in a perfect world such a system would work but this is far from being a perfect world.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Isn't this communism? Wasn't it already given a go? There are always strings attached to money that is just given to you by the government. Many people I know would gladly sit around doing nothing if provided with enough income to feed and shelter themselves. Then they would take that income and buy drugs. I know because it is already happening. Maybe in a perfect world such a system would work but this is far from being a perfect world.

+1

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Money comes from Consumption. No Consumption - No Money to Distribute.

The opposite is also true. No money - no consumption. At the same time, if you relieve peoples poverty by giving them essentially 'free' money, they can consume more as well, thus giving the economy a boost.

Thats very true.
A perfect logical reasoning:)

"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch"
Milton Friedman

US 'call' it TANSTAAFL:)

Isn't this communism? Wasn't it already given a go? There are always strings attached to money that is just given to you by the government. Many people I know would gladly sit around doing nothing if provided with enough income to feed and shelter themselves. Then they would take that income and buy drugs. I know because it is already happening. Maybe in a perfect world such a system would work but this is far from being a perfect world.

No its not 'communism'. The free market and private property are not touched in any significant way. All that happens is that the various different handouts that currently exist for certain people living in certain conditions are replaced by one single handout given to everyone to supplement their income. The jobs that remain still remain so people have ways to increase their income that way, while the people that don't have a job (because the jobs no longer exist) at least have a guaranteed basic income.

And again, the idea that humans almost instantly revert to utter laziness when provided with the basic necessities is just nonsense. Try it yourself and see how quickly you would go insane. Being bored out of your mind is just incredibly...well, boring. Are there currently people not working, sitting on their ass and doing drugs? Yeah sure. But I think you got the causal relationship twisted around. Those people don't sit on their ass all day because they like doing drugs, they are doing drugs because they got no job, no perspective and have to sit on their ass all day. Drugs are a way to relieve the soul crushing, mind numbing boredom of not being able to do anything with your life.

Many people I know would gladly sit around doing nothing if provided with enough income to feed and shelter themselves. Then they would take that income and buy drugs. I know because it is already happening.

Nonsense!
But I live in Europe and dont see that.
Strange people you know...
Who are they?

Give some examples. I really want to know.

To those in need I would have the government supply surplus food to Church-run soup kitchens for which they could deduct the costs from their property and income taxes. Eating three bowls of slop each day to sustain life would be a spur to get a job and improve one's lot in life.

You are missing the basic premise of this thread which is that there are not enough jobs to go around.

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To those in need I would have the government supply surplus food to Church-run soup kitchens for which they could deduct the costs from their property and income taxes. Eating three bowls of slop each day to sustain life would be a spur to get a job and improve one's lot in life.

You are missing the basic premise of this thread which is that there are not enough jobs to go around.

Especially if you are 50+.
Then you are lost in spite of lots of professional experience.
In my profession its 40+
If you are a ballet dancer its 30+
Politicians can however 'work' until there 80+ !!!

Many people I know would gladly sit around doing nothing if provided with enough income to feed and shelter themselves. Then they would take that income and buy drugs. I know because it is already happening.

Nonsense!
But I live in Europe and dont see that.
Strange people you know...
Who are they?

Give some examples. I really want to know.

There is a whole sub culture here who are proud to live of benifits and see no reason why they should work. Even made a TV program about it.

You are very lucky to not have people like that :-)

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To those in need I would have the government supply surplus food to Church-run soup kitchens for which they could deduct the costs from their property and income taxes. Eating three bowls of slop each day to sustain life would be a spur to get a job and improve one's lot in life.

You are missing the basic premise of this thread which is that there are not enough jobs to go around.

Especially if you are 50+.
Then you are lost in spite of lots of professional experience.
In my profession its 40+
If you are a ballet dancer its 30+

Politicians can however 'work' until there 80+ !!!

namely that poor people don't work and are poor because they dont work. Most poor people work harder and more hours than those rich people

The Day I See No Trash Strewn All Over The Neighborhood, I Might Believe. The Working and Idle throw 'it' in My Bushes, Yard and Trees, I Guess, For The Fun of 'it'.

Welfare or Basic Income, Clean Up The Frakkin' Neighborhood.

Until People Do Basic 'Clean Up', I See No Hope for The Idle, no matter What Freebies They Get.

' '

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

There is a whole sub culture here who are proud to live of benifits and see no reason why they should work. Even made a TV program about it.

You are very lucky to not have people like that :-)

A sub culture whose size is greatly exaggerated by the right wing media to give credence to their hateful claims against poor people and people on benefits.

Many people I know would gladly sit around doing nothing if provided with enough income to feed and shelter themselves. Then they would take that income and buy drugs. I know because it is already happening.

Nonsense!
But I live in Europe and dont see that.
Strange people you know...
Who are they?

Give some examples. I really want to know.

There is a whole sub culture here who are proud to live of benifits and see no reason why they should work. Even made a TV program about it.

Even criminals get paid and pays tax when imprisoned.
Russian criminals love our prison system in Europe!!!



You are very lucky to not have people like that :-)

My sister Ann lives in Liverpool(!) (not much jobs there) with my nephew Matthew aged 20 something.
Ann have to look for jobs several times a year.
Once she had to go to Wales for work!

So who are these 'lucky' people doing 'nothing'?
Seems very boring to me.
Russian criminals perhaps serving time in prisons in Sweden or Britain doing NOTHING!!!!