Know thine enemy

Message boards : Politics : Know thine enemy
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile betreger Project Donor
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Jun 99
Posts: 11360
Credit: 29,581,041
RAC: 66
United States
Message 1567376 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 3:11:25 UTC - in response to Message 1567343.  

As my response to betreger points out, we should not focus on a "definition" so much as getting straight what Marx said. As I've been trying to say, if socialism is an enemy, one must know the enemy, not what some radio/TV host tells us about the enemy.

Sarge all soceties have a degree of socialism, ie public health, public education, transportaion, defense as examples. These are not the enemy. The question is how much is too much and how much is not enough.
ID: 1567376 · Report as offensive
Profile janneseti
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Oct 09
Posts: 14106
Credit: 655,366
RAC: 0
Sweden
Message 1567383 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 3:18:57 UTC - in response to Message 1567372.  
Last modified: 5 Sep 2014, 3:21:17 UTC

Posting to re-title.

Now I get it. Know your enemy:)

Sun Tzu
知彼知己,百戰不殆;不知彼而知己,一勝一負;不知彼,不知己,每戰必殆
It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.

Thanks Sarge for changing the name of the tread.
ID: 1567383 · Report as offensive
Profile Es99
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 23 Aug 05
Posts: 10874
Credit: 350,402
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 1567392 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 4:28:58 UTC - in response to Message 1567372.  

Posting to re-title.

Thank you. :)
Reality Internet Personality
ID: 1567392 · Report as offensive
Profile MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Jun 02
Posts: 6895
Credit: 6,588,977
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1567399 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 4:59:43 UTC

After All Other Countries Are Dust, China Will Still Be.

All isms Be Damned, China Will Continue On.

' '

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
ID: 1567399 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1567403 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 5:06:34 UTC
Last modified: 5 Sep 2014, 5:08:24 UTC

Ah, tons of words about socialism, not one chart.

As Sarge posed his original question about the USA, I make reference to some terms as they are perceived in the USA.

Most people think that there is a line that runs from the left to the right. That all people fall on that line and it explains all aspects. It doesn't and some then decided to connect left and right and try and make a circle as some very absolute positions simply would not fit.

The real problem is there is more than one dimension to the political spectrum.

A liberal believes in very strong government control of the pocket book. A conservative believes in essentially no government control of the pocket book. If this was on only measure then it would be a line. However a liberal believes in essentially no government control of "the bedroom." A conservative believes is strong government control of "the bedroom." Again if this was the only measure it would be a line.

What has happened is that the one dimensional line has become a two dimensional plane, and our two scales are at right angles. To chart this we end up with an economic choice line and a social choice line. But they aren't the X and Y, but they run at 45 degrees to those axis.

The Y axis is easy to name, it is a measure of government control. It runs from anarchy to statism. It is the other line that is our traditional left to right line. It runs from socialism to conservatism.

Before we go farther, take a crude quiz to figure out which quadrant you personally fall. (There are many other more detailed quizzes on the net.)

In any case you now have some idea where you fall on the plane. So where do others fall? Unfortunately, not everyone draws the map with the axis in the smae direction.

Two samples.

However this is not the end of the story. You need another dimension, making it a cube.


However the two dimensional is good enough for answering the question: What is socialism.

Socialism and statism are the same. The central planning of your life.

I know that is a lot to absorb, so I'll let it digest. Some of you may now understand a bit, when I say I'm orthogonal or as the dictionary says "at right angles."
ID: 1567403 · Report as offensive
Profile Es99
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 23 Aug 05
Posts: 10874
Credit: 350,402
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 1567423 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 6:36:46 UTC - in response to Message 1567410.  

As Sarge posed his original question about the USA, I make reference to some terms as they are perceived in the USA.

Most people think that there is a line that runs from the left to the right. That all people fall on that line and it explains all aspects. It doesn't and some then decided to connect left and right and try and make a circle as some very absolute positions simply would not fit.

Most American's I know, fall somewhere in The Middle.

They agree with some Conservative Principals, and agree with some Liberal Principals. Americans 'Pick and Choose'.

Americans, by in large, do not follow European Beliefs regarding 'I Am a Socialist', 'I Am a Conservative', etc.

That is why it is sometimes difficult for American and Europeans, to discuss these issues.

Did you take the quiz? Lets just see how far away from Hitler you actually are.

I've done it before and I come out bottom left near Noam Chomsky.
Reality Internet Personality
ID: 1567423 · Report as offensive
Мишель
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Nov 13
Posts: 3073
Credit: 87,868
RAC: 0
Netherlands
Message 1567433 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 7:10:15 UTC - in response to Message 1567410.  

Americans, by in large, do not follow European Beliefs regarding 'I Am a Socialist', 'I Am a Conservative', etc.

If they are so fluid, then why do so many vote for either the democratic or republican party, without ever changing and regardless of who is running?
ID: 1567433 · Report as offensive
Мишель
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Nov 13
Posts: 3073
Credit: 87,868
RAC: 0
Netherlands
Message 1567435 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 7:17:14 UTC - in response to Message 1567182.  

Who says that the two can't coexist? A constitution sets out the broad principles to which the government has to abide, but a constitution doesn't cover every aspect of government policies, nor does it say much about the day to day operations of the government. Thats where bureaucrats come in.

Michel You are banging on open doors.
Bureaucrats are not elected. They work for any administration, left or right or neo-nazi. As long they are paid they are happy.
Thats why I posted the sketch 'Yes, Prime Minister' from BBC

And '297902'
Stability? 'This provides Stability and in the long run saves resources from being squandered through erratic changes in policy'.
Look at Russia and Ukraina.

No, again not entirely. Bureaucrats have their own agenda, and they will push for that agenda as much as they can. Its foolish to assume that bureaucrats just work and are otherwise completely a-political.

Also, not every form of government can effectively set up a bureaucracy. Indeed, Russia is a perfect example of a defunct bureaucracy. Due to the rampant corruption within the Russian government apparatus, the bureaucracy there is filled with incompetent idiots who only got there due to corruption and not because of any actual skills.
ID: 1567435 · Report as offensive
Мишель
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Nov 13
Posts: 3073
Credit: 87,868
RAC: 0
Netherlands
Message 1567438 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 7:23:18 UTC - in response to Message 1567325.  

You are assuming a Large National Government, Internally. Perhaps we should divide the Internal Parts. With the National Part being very small.

Then you would not have, as with a Binary Internal Government, each having 50% of The Internal Government power, resulting in abuse on a large scale from either one.

Well I never said that the part that is voted for has an equal amount of power as the part that isn't voted for. Honestly, I dont even think you can effectively compare the sort of power they both have.
ID: 1567438 · Report as offensive
Profile janneseti
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Oct 09
Posts: 14106
Credit: 655,366
RAC: 0
Sweden
Message 1567498 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 10:20:31 UTC - in response to Message 1567403.  
Last modified: 5 Sep 2014, 10:26:08 UTC

Ah, tons of words about socialism, not one chart.
Before we go farther, take a crude quiz to figure out which quadrant you personally fall. (There are many other more detailed quizzes on the net.)

In any case you now have some idea where you fall on the plane. So where do others fall? Unfortunately, not everyone draws the map with the axis in the smae direction.

I know that is a lot to absorb, so I'll let it digest. Some of you may now understand a bit, when I say I'm orthogonal or as the dictionary says "at right angles."

+100
A picture says more than a thousand Words.
ID: 1567498 · Report as offensive
Profile The Simonator
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 18 Nov 04
Posts: 5700
Credit: 3,855,702
RAC: 50
United Kingdom
Message 1567520 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 11:05:15 UTC

This quiz came up in discussions a few months ago, here's where i fell:



Slightly liberal, moderately left. Reasonably distant from Hitler, but why anyone raised him i'm not sure. Closest to Ralph Nader on the chart, though i did have to look up who he was.

On a different note, grammatically should not this thread title be "Know thine enemy"? The discordant tenses make pronunciation difficult.
Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.
ID: 1567520 · Report as offensive
Profile janneseti
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Oct 09
Posts: 14106
Credit: 655,366
RAC: 0
Sweden
Message 1567523 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 11:10:48 UTC - in response to Message 1567520.  
Last modified: 5 Sep 2014, 11:16:02 UTC

Reasonably distant from Hitler, but why anyone raised him i'm not sure.

Yes. Hitler, Stalin and Putin is off the scale.

Путин, пошел на хуй
ID: 1567523 · Report as offensive
Profile The Simonator
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 18 Nov 04
Posts: 5700
Credit: 3,855,702
RAC: 50
United Kingdom
Message 1567530 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 11:21:12 UTC - in response to Message 1567523.  

Reasonably distant from Hitler, but why anyone raised him i'm not sure.

Yes. Hitler, Stalin and Putin is off the scale.

Путин, пошел на хуй

Мы все знаем, что Путин на самом деле является марионеткой иллюминатов !

Здравствуйте участники форума не переводчики в интернете фантастические ?
Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.
ID: 1567530 · Report as offensive
Profile janneseti
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Oct 09
Posts: 14106
Credit: 655,366
RAC: 0
Sweden
Message 1567535 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 11:37:01 UTC - in response to Message 1567530.  
Last modified: 5 Sep 2014, 11:50:52 UTC

Reasonably distant from Hitler, but why anyone raised him i'm not sure.

Yes. Hitler, Stalin and Putin is off the scale.

Путин, пошел на хуй

Мы все знаем, что Путин на самом деле является марионеткой иллюминатов !

Здравствуйте участники форума не переводчики в интернете фантастические ?


Смех вслух:)

Press the loudspeaker ikon and you can hear the text!
ID: 1567535 · Report as offensive
Profile Sarge
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Aug 99
Posts: 12273
Credit: 8,569,109
RAC: 79
United States
Message 1567549 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 12:45:08 UTC
Last modified: 5 Sep 2014, 12:45:25 UTC

As I went on a wondering hike, I began to wonder if I'd known your enemy in a family way or was I loosing the spelling battle?
Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.
ID: 1567549 · Report as offensive
Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 3387
Credit: 4,182,900
RAC: 10
United States
Message 1567550 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 12:53:26 UTC

I haven't read every single entry in this thread and I was a bit confused at the start regarding the where it was intended to go. My understanding of socialism is that it is supposed to be all about sharing and making sure even the people at the bottom of the pile have what is needed to live comfortably. That is what Christianity was supposed to be about but the mission got twisted over the centuries. Modern western governments try to enforce this concept by taxing the wealthy and distributing a small portion of that wealth to the people at the bottom. The problem is that governments are run by bureaucracies and even the best are somewhat corrupt so that most of the funds intended to help the poor never reach them.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
ID: 1567550 · Report as offensive
Profile The Simonator
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 18 Nov 04
Posts: 5700
Credit: 3,855,702
RAC: 50
United Kingdom
Message 1567551 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 12:59:51 UTC - in response to Message 1567549.  

was I loosing the spelling battle?

*twitch*
Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.
ID: 1567551 · Report as offensive
Profile janneseti
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Oct 09
Posts: 14106
Credit: 655,366
RAC: 0
Sweden
Message 1567557 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 13:31:20 UTC

Now I'm confused.
Is socialism an enemy?
ID: 1567557 · Report as offensive
Profile janneseti
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Oct 09
Posts: 14106
Credit: 655,366
RAC: 0
Sweden
Message 1567587 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 14:57:00 UTC - in response to Message 1567581.  
Last modified: 5 Sep 2014, 15:05:46 UTC

The Majority of BOTH Party's are Centrist (Little Left of Center - Little Right of Center).

Same as Europe then. Not Russia of course!
In Sweden it's called 'lagom'. Lagom är bäst.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio4/posts/The-Cold-Swedish-Winter
'Lagom’ is a uniquely Swedish word. It doesn’t have any literal translation in English but basically means ‘not too much, not too little”, sufficient, average. That doesn’t do it justice though, as this single word encapsulates the whole Swedish socially democratic outlook on life: everyone should have enough for their needs but nothing nicer or more expensive than anyone else. Lagom is the middle of the road; as Ian explains to Geoff in The Cold Swedish Winter, “if it was a colour it would be beige, if it was a person it would be Alan Titchmarsh”.

But there are runner ups. Especially France, Hungary and Greece who has established nazism again.
Sigh
ID: 1567587 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1567608 - Posted: 5 Sep 2014, 16:09:13 UTC - in response to Message 1567549.  

<OT grammar>
As I went on a wondering hike, I began to wonder if I'd known your enemy in a family way or was I loosing the spelling battle?

Isn't the real issue we have singular and plural forms mixed?
Know thy enemy = Know your enemy
Know thine enemy = Know yours enemy

Cleave to thy enemies.
ID: 1567608 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · Next

Message boards : Politics : Know thine enemy


 
©2024 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.