Chris,

Your exceptions have been noted.

Here's another one for you. Time began at the big Bang. Just as there no North of the North Pole there is no BEFORE before the big bang.

Chris,

Your exceptions have been noted.

Here's another one for you. Time began at the big Bang. Just as there no North of the North Pole there is no BEFORE before the big bang.

Theologically spoken, there is.

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rOZZ
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For Chris. can I prove the Universe is finite ?

I can if these premises are true:

1. There is only our universe (one universe)
2. The universe began with the big bang
3. The universe underwent rapid expansion and is still expanding
4. The Universe is less than 15 billion years old.

If you accept these premises then you must accept my statement and conclude yourself that the Universe is finite.

These premises are based on observation, logic, theory and to some extent a viewpoint of theoretical physics. Remember that a leading physics journal is called the "Philosophical Review".

Some postulate that there are multiple universes, some deny the big bang.

Making it short right now.

You know, Chris.

Many thousands of years ago, what we once were before becoming humans chose to climb down from the trees and explore the surroundings.

Assumedly we are descendants of the apes.

But for some reason we were given intelligence by nature. Our ability to think, deduce and make a choice or selection between this and that are making us intelligent in nature.

Our ability to deduce certain things and facts is as a result of our intelligence which is all due to the fact that most of us are having a brain.

Except for the big question about intelligence vs. being not intelligent at all, the big question being the hot tomato is the main point of "self-conscience".

Both dolphins as well as chimpanzees (and we ourselves) assumedly are having this self-conscience ability.

I am out of here for tonight.

Bye for now.

Is the Universe Infinite?

Does it matter if you and nothing you can see will ever reach the edge?

That may well hold the clue to the answer.

As you move towards the edge, space unfolds so that it is at least the age of the universe farther in that direction than you are.

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For Chris. can I prove the Universe is finite ?

I can if these premises are true:

1. There is only our universe (one universe)
2. The universe began with the big bang
3. The universe underwent rapid expansion and is still expanding
4. The Universe is less than 15 billion years old.

If you accept these premises then you must accept my statement and conclude yourself that the Universe is finite.

These premises are based on observation, logic, theory and to some extent a viewpoint of theoretical physics. Remember that a leading physics journal is called the "Philosophical Review".

Some postulate that there are multiple universes, some deny the big bang.

Well:
1. we are not sure about that..and we can't know for SURE!
2. or something very similar to the Big bang
3. well...that "rapid expansion" was quicker than the speed of light...how come?
4. this one is the only one that is TRUE!

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

3. The universe underwent rapid expansion and is still expanding

If this is correct, then doesn't that lead to the view that there must be other universes, possibly even an infinite number of universes.

3. The universe underwent rapid expansion and is still expanding

If this is correct, then doesn't that lead to the view that there must be other universes, possibly even an infinite number of universes.

I dont think that it lead to any views.
Only that our universe is finite.
Something small growing into "universe" and becomes infinite takes infinitive times...
But multiple universes is clearly a possibility since our "universe" is finite.

3. The universe underwent rapid expansion and is still expanding

If this is correct, then doesn't that lead to the view that there must be other universes, possibly even an infinite number of universes.

I dont think that it lead to any views.
Only that our universe is finite.
Something small growing into "universe" and becomes infinite takes infinitive times...
But multiple universes is clearly a possibility since our "universe" is finite.

Why would something be finite? Just 'caiuse humans have conception, birth & death - doesn't mean Universe has it also!

The problem is in: Universe expanded rapidly and then it slowed their expansion to about a speed of light.
If nothing in physical properties goes faster than light - then that is IMPOSIBLE. So now they proposed that "speed of light might be variable in space-time" - which puts most of the Teory of Relativity to garbage, in which is postulated that speed of light in unchangable constant...

And if out Space is finite & expanding (and science so far says it is), than most physicans get very Space-centered (analog to Geo-centered)...and postupalte that this is the ONLY Space there is out there...'cause they can't see beyond the CBR...so they don't know if Space expands in some medium or does it expand in vacuum or that our Space is only IT...
some say that our Space expands in some medium...and that in that medium coexist some other Spaces, maybe with different laws than in our Space...some might be fragile, so they collapse...some might be even better tuned than ours, so it will over-live even our Space...
;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

At any instant space is finite and occupies all the space that there is. There is nothing outside of space. In fact space is expanding faster than the speed of light.

At any instant space is finite and occupies all the space that there is. There is nothing outside of space. In fact space is expanding faster than the speed of light.

Not in a theological perspective. (...didn't I say that before?) Oh, that was when you said there was nothing before the Big Bang, William:)

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rOZZ
Music
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Oh, that was when you said there was nothing before the Big Bang

Ah, what time was it before time existed?

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Imagine a world that has only 2 dimensions--such as the SURFACE of a basketball. If this surface represents the universe then The surface is finite and unbounded. As the universe expands the basketball gets bigger creating more two dimensional space. You can't say that it is expanding into the third dimension since this is purely a two dimensional world as I stipulated.

Now lets go to the three dimensional model. There is no more space than what the universe has instantaneously expanded to. As it expands in three dimensions more space is created. It is not expanding into a fourth dimension--it is not expanding into anything--it is just creating more space.

Such are the forces of creation--it is still going on.

--it is just creating more space

I tried doing that once... complete waste of time. *look disapprovingly down nose at lack of space* It disappears faster than I can create it... then I end up at the bottom of a pile of things I can't find...

--it is just creating more space

I tried doing that once... complete waste of time. *look disapprovingly down nose at lack of space* It disappears faster than I can create it... then I end up at the bottom of a pile of things I can't find...

I believe that is a corollary to the law that work expands to fill the time and space available.

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It appears that I am in a battle of wits with unarmed men

It appears that I am in a battle of wits with unarmed men

Aren't we all...

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

At any instant space is finite and occupies all the space that there is. There is nothing outside of space. In fact space is expanding faster than the speed of light.

OK, but there isn't any experiment to prove that "all the mass" in Space is constant...if there was, Space would in fact might come from a single source!

if not, than Space absorbs it's mass from expanding...so out there, might be something in which Space expands into...

and all calculations were based on finite model!

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

Oh, that was when you said there was nothing before the Big Bang

Ah, what time was it before time existed?

time is not a dimension...mass is!

time is only product of the space-mass-speed continuum, that we observe...so our time on Earth is only limited by rotation of the Earth, revolution of the Earth around the Sun, revolution of the Sun around the Milky way & apsolute speed of our Milky way in Space...

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

Time is simply a measure of the elapse between two events, nothing more nothing less. We on earth choose to measure it in two ways, one roughly one more accurately.

Since 1997, the second has been defined as be:

The duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom at rest at a temperature of 0 K.

For the rest of us we divide the period of one rotation of the earth by 24 to get hours, that by 60 to get minutes, and that again by 60 to get seconds. One rotation we call a day. The duration taken to travel once around the sun is 365 days which we call a year. (actually it's 365 1/4 days so we have a Leap Year every 4 years to make up for it.

Technically Mass is a dimension in that it can be measured, but it is easier to think of it as a quantity which can be measured. Time or elapse can also be measured which is why we call it the 4th dimension (or quantity).

Yes, but...

If Earth rotates around Sun (and it is), with speed of 30km/s (roughly)...how much is the time difference between Earth standing & Earth rotating?
Acording to Lorenz transformations it's about -5^-9 per second...or about 50Hz of radiation of Cs133 @ 0K (later Hz/rad)...

Now we stop Sun rotation around the Milky way, about 230km/s...equals to -2,94^-7 per sec...or about 2939Hz/rad!

then we stop the Milky way (like we could), about another 600km/s...equals to about -2^-6 per sec...or about 20kHz/rad!

So time is not fix...you can't grab the same amount of time anywhere in the Universe! So your sec & Jovian sec is different...
Masses are...so are veloities...time is only product of them!

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU