Is the Universe Infinite?

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Message 1562390 - Posted: 25 Aug 2014, 21:38:42 UTC

An interesting & readable paper on the subject:

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1408/1408.4795.pdf
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Message 1562500 - Posted: 26 Aug 2014, 3:09:17 UTC

I get the impression that they don't have a clue.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1562633 - Posted: 26 Aug 2014, 14:07:28 UTC - in response to Message 1562593.  
Last modified: 26 Aug 2014, 14:09:48 UTC

An old subject for sure.

Space is very large but it is not infinite. If you believe in the big bang then you can more easily see that it is not infinite--it may be getting bigger but it is not infinite. We say that it is finite but unbounded.

Think of a balloon that is being inflated, The surface in 2 dimensions is finite but unbounded.

Attempts at finding the curvature in the universe have so far shown it to be flat--possibly because it is so large. With space based, long baseline interferometers we may find that a triangle has more or less than 180 degrees which would indicate that space is not flat but rather curved.

General relativity would also indicate that the mass of the universe would cause space to warp as well which would suggest a non flat configuration.
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Message 1563899 - Posted: 28 Aug 2014, 18:10:23 UTC - in response to Message 1563824.  

the potential to be infinite exists.


It has the ability to get larger and larger but not infinite. If a piece of paper is curved then it is not flat. The "sphere" that is created by the big bang's expanding universe is finite at any current or future time. Semantically it is very large but not infinite. You might say that it is "Pregnantly infinite" in other words it might as well be termed infinite--but it is really not.
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Message 1564805 - Posted: 30 Aug 2014, 2:01:01 UTC
Last modified: 30 Aug 2014, 2:03:40 UTC

Well, it seems that, the world (most of it, perhaps) has accepted that
the Earth is essentially, spherical, and not flat. By extension, the
best concept would seem to favor an infinite "space" (not, necessarily
an infinite universe/multiverse, which are components of it.

How could it be otherwise? Otherwise, there would have to be something
else, beyond the boundaries.

And, it has to have always existed. Otherwise, what came before it?
The buck stops somewhere, is how I view it.

It seems, that only answers which cannot be comprehended, are the most
believable. This is not necessarily a plug for a religious basis
for it all, although nothing wrong with considering that, and any/all other
"reasons" for the existence of space, and everything in it.

Infinity could well extend to the small view, as well as to the large.
How many levels of matter/energy will be found? Is the universe analog
or digital? Quantum "foam", in a glass of beer, makes a bit more sense,
to me. . .
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Message 1564951 - Posted: 30 Aug 2014, 14:44:01 UTC - in response to Message 1564910.  

Well, it seems that, the world (most of it, perhaps) has accepted that
the Earth is essentially, spherical, and not flat.

Flat earth Society You wouldn't think it possible in the 21C would you?

Why not? Look at the global warming. Look at religion. Humans are very capable of delusion.
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Message 1565018 - Posted: 30 Aug 2014, 17:23:06 UTC

what came before it?


What is North of the North pole ??

Time began at the instant of the Big Bang--There was nothing before--Hard to grasp but then so is infinity.
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Message 1565024 - Posted: 30 Aug 2014, 17:47:47 UTC

If what we live in is just one of an infinite number of universes all part of a multiverse then maybe this universe is bounded while the entire multiverse is unbounded.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1565061 - Posted: 30 Aug 2014, 20:13:03 UTC - in response to Message 1565039.  

There is no evidence of a multi-verse.

There may well have been a time where t=o. Then you can measure from there.

Can there be time without mass ??
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Message 1565309 - Posted: 31 Aug 2014, 6:59:15 UTC - in response to Message 1565065.  

you cant have everything suddenly appearing from nothing.


On that 1 i think you are wrong and has already been done in particle accelerators , smash to electrons together and a 3rd suddenly appears from nowhere

Quantum mechanics the weird , the impossible , the strange are all possible
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Message 1565368 - Posted: 31 Aug 2014, 10:44:29 UTC - in response to Message 1565352.  

I'll try and find the pictures taken by a particle accelerateor but i do know it has been done and the scientist did not expect it to happen but it did .

yes i do know there are elemently particles , aka fermions and don't have much mass
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Message 1565369 - Posted: 31 Aug 2014, 10:53:24 UTC

Well i was all most right it was protons that colided . here is a link that explains it

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/secret_projects/project077.htm

they made electrons and antiprotons i think it said but read it yourself as the link explains it better than i can there are some pictures i've seem to but the article is all you need to see
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Message 1565417 - Posted: 31 Aug 2014, 14:53:45 UTC - in response to Message 1565065.  

I say that is rubbish, you cant have everything suddenly appearing from nothing.


You sound like my father when we were discussing the existence of God. According to Quantum Mechanics particles are popping in and out of existence all the time.

As for the relationship between time and gravity yo will find that a clock runs at a different speed deep in a mine than it does at the surface. This is a fact. My question was a question--not an assertion.
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Message 1565419 - Posted: 31 Aug 2014, 15:06:22 UTC

the enery producede by the partical colision in excellerator created dark matter for a very short time it was enery turning to mater and not from noughting
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Message 1565447 - Posted: 31 Aug 2014, 16:34:23 UTC - in response to Message 1565423.  
Last modified: 31 Aug 2014, 16:34:44 UTC

If I was your father


Ah yes, my son,

While we are being Cheeky and a bit pedantic, I thought that I would point out:

The correct use of the subjunctive mood would have been:

If I were your father.

As the psychiatrist told the wrestler," Get a grip on yourself"

Cheers right mate !!
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Message 1567236 - Posted: 4 Sep 2014, 22:04:39 UTC

Is the Universe Infinite?
Of course not!
The standard model says that in the beginning the Universe was a singularity with no space and time at all.
Suddenly the singularity expanded and today in an accelerating way.
But, to make the Universe infinite it will take an infinite time to become infinite!

But what is infinite. Have you been there?
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Message 1590128 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 11:22:40 UTC

So if the universe isn't infinite, where is it ??
What's on the outside of the container that bounds the outer extremities ??
Why does all this energy and matter exist ??
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Message 1590169 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 14:26:39 UTC - in response to Message 1590128.  

The universe is big but it is not infinite.

There is nothing outside of the "boundary". Space is created by the expansion.

If you lived in a 2 dimensional world then nothing is outside the surface of a basketball. The 3rd dimension does not exist in this world.

What is North of the north pole ?---- same kind of thinking.
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Message 1590185 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 15:34:05 UTC

The Cosmic Microwave Background proves the Universe is finite.
rOZZ
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Message 1590254 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 17:35:33 UTC
Last modified: 22 Oct 2014, 17:46:21 UTC

Our current understanding of things as we know them are based on what we are able to see and observe around us.

As always some things are better explained either philosophically or theoretically than what is available in practice.

Our notion of the possible existence of a divine entity may perhaps be attributed or related to whether you are an atheist, agnostic, or something else, but in the end these questions are best solved at looking at the universe as a whole and what we think it is all about.

The universe as we happen to know it to be appears to be expanding as a result of its creation in the Big Bang.

Still, gravity keeps galaxies and galaxy clusters together and even though you may be standing up high here on the surface of the earth, the same force is also known to be bending both space as well as time.

The mutual interaction between positively and negatively charged particles makes up the basic shape and size of individual objects. Their motion through space are the result of local effects, but in the end are determined by the most massive objects that are known to be existing in space, namely the superclusters.

Several such objects are probably competing with each other, although no direct interaction have so far been observed.

Clusters and superclusters of galaxies are making up the "Cosmic Web". In between you find giant voids where nothing seems to be present.

Astronomers are currently unable to prove the existence of multiple universes or multiverses. For now it is readily accepted that black holes are the places in space where things have come to a dead end with both space and time ceasing to exist.

We may speculate in the possible existence of worm holes and the possible properties they are exhibiting in space.

Our three-dimensional world is a result of the presence of mass. The relationship between mass and energy may determine the properties of space as we know it to be. The notion of time may be as a result of what we are able to observe from the effects of gravity and how it affects both the motion and properties between different objects.

Scientists are trying to explain macrocosmos by means of trying to understand microcosmos and the presence of both matter and energy. We relate gravity to matter itself, but the motion of mass as well as the amounts of it implies the presence of immense amounts of energy being present in space.

Gravity is best comprehended by the presence of mass, not necessarily the energy this mass is representing.

So what are the rules for energy then? Is it perhaps measured in (kilo-)Joules, or is it rather something else?

We happen to know Isaac Newtons' three laws for the motion of mass. Also Albert Einstein's laws of time and space which for the most part replaces Newton's laws, at least when it comes to the same. Mass is subject to certain physical properties, while energy is not subject to the same when it comes to behavior.

Rather energy becomes radiation instead and can not easily be contained within a single area of space.

So now we are again losing track of it and find the universe to be a complex place without no single way of approach at explaining things as they are supposed to be.

No doubt, really, the universe is a dynamic and constantly changing place, although the big changes of course does not happen overnight.

Our new thoughts about the principles regarding "Order vs. Chaos" (or at least the principles behind "Chaos Theory") as well as the Theory of Quantity are changing our view of the universe and makes it "more easy to believe in a meaningful explanation for everything" to some people and the "not so meaningful explanation for everything" to some other people.

Also we should not forget that we soon become lost in space. Our thoughts and minds may be great, but our physical size is not the same.
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