The Israel and Palestine conflict - Part 2

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Message 1560178 - Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 18:45:35 UTC - in response to Message 1560170.  

Of course it matters. If they did not, then Israel is in the wrong. After all, that was the main reason for the current Israeli operation!
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Message 1560188 - Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 18:52:34 UTC - in response to Message 1560165.  

You'd think those Jihadists still live in the Middle Ages...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/american-journalist-james-foley-beheaded-4076534

Actually correct. There is a reason they used Levant in their name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levant

They are still fighting the crusades.


Wished there were more people like them, fighting for the good case that is then.


Ah but which side or which people?

The Levant is: -
namely Cyprus, Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria.



No no, I mean the people who are fighting the crusades. (in general)
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Message 1560196 - Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 18:57:38 UTC - in response to Message 1560191.  

Of course it matters. If they did not, then Israel is in the wrong. After all, that was the main reason for the current Israeli operation!

Not defending the Jewish, and non-Hamas/Jihadist's Muslim's, within Israel?


Why defend them? I replied to your comment. If Hamas did not kidnap them, Israel is wrong for carrying on with the current operation.
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Message 1560197 - Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 18:58:33 UTC - in response to Message 1560188.  

You'd think those Jihadists still live in the Middle Ages...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/american-journalist-james-foley-beheaded-4076534

Actually correct. There is a reason they used Levant in their name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levant

They are still fighting the crusades.


Wished there were more people like them, fighting for the good case that is then.


Ah but which side or which people?

The Levant is: -
namely Cyprus, Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria.



No no, I mean the people who are fighting the crusades. (in general)


Christians v Muslims...

...oops.
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Message 1560224 - Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 19:28:53 UTC - in response to Message 1560197.  

You'd think those Jihadists still live in the Middle Ages...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/american-journalist-james-foley-beheaded-4076534

Actually correct. There is a reason they used Levant in their name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levant

They are still fighting the crusades.


Wished there were more people like them, fighting for the good case that is then.


Ah but which side or which people?

The Levant is: -
namely Cyprus, Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria.



No no, I mean the people who are fighting the crusades. (in general)


Christians v Muslims...

...oops.


People, fighting whatever cause that has a positive outcome for the whole universe and beyond, in general I mean:) Sorry for the off topic comment Es:)
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Message 1560229 - Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 19:35:16 UTC - in response to Message 1560224.  

People, fighting whatever cause that has a positive outcome for the whole universe and beyond, in general I mean:)


Fair point. However, wouldn't it be much better if we all worked together to achieve that rather than fighting?

With fighting, only injuries/death occur.
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Message 1560233 - Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 19:45:57 UTC - in response to Message 1560229.  

People, fighting whatever cause that has a positive outcome for the whole universe and beyond, in general I mean:)


Fair point. However, wouldn't it be much better if we all worked together to achieve that rather than fighting?

With fighting, only injuries/death occur.


Sometimes the word fighting has a different connotation, these days, it is practically obligatory to 'fight' a cause.
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Message 1560234 - Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 19:47:43 UTC - in response to Message 1560233.  

People, fighting whatever cause that has a positive outcome for the whole universe and beyond, in general I mean:)


Fair point. However, wouldn't it be much better if we all worked together to achieve that rather than fighting?

With fighting, only injuries/death occur.


Sometimes the word fighting has a different connotation, these days, it is practically obligatory to 'fight' a cause.

Sorry Julie, I should have realised that. Being ex-military, I blame that. :-)
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Message 1560287 - Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 20:57:40 UTC - in response to Message 1560170.  
Last modified: 21 Aug 2014, 20:59:17 UTC


When you have an organization, Hamas, celebrating, and giving out candy, regarding murdering 3 Jewish Youngster's: Does it matter if they did the act? The 'celebration' speaks about their evil.

So then by your own logic Isreal is evil because Israeli citizens are holding bbq's while watching the IDF drop bombs on the Gaza strip. And on the internet they are celebrating the death of Palestinians. And we know for a fact that Israel actively targets civilians. So...what was that about Hamas again?
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Message 1560313 - Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 21:46:11 UTC - in response to Message 1560287.  

And we know for a fact that Israel actively targets civilians.


Examples?
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Message 1560317 - Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 21:56:45 UTC - in response to Message 1560313.  

And we know for a fact that Israel actively targets civilians.


Examples?

I think the 80% civilian casualty rate speaks volumes to this. And honestly, if you use 155mm Artillery to hit such small targets, you implicitly are trying to cause as much damage to the surrounding area and everyone who is still there.
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Message 1560330 - Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 22:41:53 UTC - in response to Message 1560317.  
Last modified: 21 Aug 2014, 22:44:17 UTC

And we know for a fact that Israel actively targets civilians.


Examples?

I think the 80% civilian casualty rate speaks volumes to this. And honestly, if you use 155mm Artillery to hit such small targets, you implicitly are trying to cause as much damage to the surrounding area and everyone who is still there.

They are not examples of directly targeting civilians.

Go find an example to support your claim or shut up.

And where is your balanced statement, when in the last few days Hamas has said it is deliberately targeting Tel Aviv airport.
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Message 1560356 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 0:07:17 UTC - in response to Message 1560330.  

And we know for a fact that Israel actively targets civilians.


Examples?

I think the 80% civilian casualty rate speaks volumes to this. And honestly, if you use 155mm Artillery to hit such small targets, you implicitly are trying to cause as much damage to the surrounding area and everyone who is still there.

They are not examples of directly targeting civilians.

Go find an example to support your claim or shut up.

And where is your balanced statement, when in the last few days Hamas has said it is deliberately targeting Tel Aviv airport.


Rather than going by the rhetoric, what people say, look at what they do. Look at the pictures and news reports from Gaza, look at the statistics and if you still can't condemn the massacre that Israel is inflicting on Gaza, what can I say?

Telling people to shut up is rude.
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Message 1560366 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 0:23:19 UTC - in response to Message 1560356.  
Last modified: 22 Aug 2014, 0:30:46 UTC

Rather than going by the rhetoric, what people say, look at what they do. Look at the pictures and news reports from Gaza, look at the statistics and if you still can't condemn the massacre that Israel is inflicting on Gaza, what can I say?

"Massacre"? What 'massacre'?!

Israel has killed fewer people in Gaza than the number of rockets indiscriminately fired into the Israeli cities!

So far, Israel looks to have been extremely restrained despite blatant crass criminally stupid provocation. Or...?


Also note, this is all at deadly great expense to everyone concerned...

All a pathetic yet deadly game for Hamas to try to appear somehow 'relevant'?

Or are the people of Gaza mere pawns and puppets in a cruel distraction/proxy skirmish?

Note how Gaza has evidently more funding for rockets and tunnels and weapons than everything else combined!!


Meanwhile, what of the greater more deadly plight of those in Syria? Including ongoing chemical warfare and continued sponsorship from Russian, Iranian, and other Arab weapons?...

Is this conflict really a very cruel game of pawns by the powers in Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and the UAE...


For the time being, one group of "Palestinians" look to be damned by everyone and the world around them... Are they yet to be pushed into the sea to 'reduce' the 'problem'?

And yet... A cooperative change in politics and attitudes and culture and religion 'could' allow everyone to live in peace and cooperation and harmony in The Holy Lands.


All in our only one world...
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Message 1560368 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 0:30:14 UTC - in response to Message 1560366.  

"Israel has killed fewer people in Gaza than the number of rockets indiscriminately fired into the Israeli cities!"

What does this mean?
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Message 1560370 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 0:39:13 UTC - in response to Message 1560368.  
Last modified: 22 Aug 2014, 0:47:00 UTC

"Israel has killed fewer people in Gaza than the number of rockets indiscriminately fired into the Israeli cities!"

What does this mean?

Assume that the Gaza rockets Jihad hope to kill at least one Israeli for each rocket they fire into Israel... Over 2000 rockets have been launched from Gaza to kill Israel, and more still.

So far, Israel has been ridiculously restrained in not simply bulldozing the small strip of land that is Gaza into the sea. So far, due to paranoid defense and bomb shelters and widespread disruption and fear (and loathing?), the Gaza launched rockets have not so far achieved their kill rate. Still, people have died.

Israel is being highly religiously restrained in not eliminating Gaza. Meanwhile, in nearby comparison there is the genocide being perpetrated by Assad in neighboring Syria... Very nasty neighbors all round!


Note that the rockets being launched are deadly bigger than mere celebratory display fireworks. Deadly. And aimed at random to kill. No warning.


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Message 1560382 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 1:31:21 UTC - in response to Message 1560379.  
Last modified: 22 Aug 2014, 1:36:22 UTC

So far, Israel has been ridiculously restrained in not simply bulldozing the small strip of land that is Gaza into the sea. So far, due to paranoid defense and bomb shelters and widespread disruption and fear (and loathing?), the Gaza launched rockets have not so far achieved their kill rate. Still, people have died.

Israel is being highly religiously restrained in not eliminating Gaza. Meanwhile, in nearby comparison there is the genocide being perpetrated by Assad in neighboring Syria... Very nasty neighbors all round!


So You're proposing a solution of Biblical proportions.
Drive the Palestinians into the Sea.
Sound familiar?

The choice I see is,

the "goals of Militant Zionists" or the "Lives of Innocent Palestinians."

Sorry, but I guess that shallow trite response is to be expected...


So, more thoughtfully and practically:


What is the supposed "Palestine" and what is Israel even?

Certainly not the Hamas puppet politics!


However you might want to answer, for anything practical, you need to consider the here and now. Randomly firing rockets and bombing people into squalor is no solution for either 'side'. There is also the 'other' sides of the politics and external sponsorship at the expense of those innocents on the ground.


My solution is to try to promote cooperation. However, that is impossible with the present politics entrenched there. Also, likely impossible with the surrounding politics.

Desmond Tutu has burst into the world news with a declaration to overcome the hate in the region. I hope he can triumph with goodness.

I also hope that the world politics can acquiesce to allow long term cooperation and understanding and peace to happen.


The bigger question is why that has not already happened across the Holy Lands... Arab "tribalism" always spoils the party?...


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Message 1560471 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 7:58:46 UTC

The problem is one that is an issue worldwide, not just Israel/Palestine. It is us & weapons.

I lived in London for 25 years & often popped into my local which was doors away from the local nick. The stories we used to hear from the off duty police officers were...

...most had the same reason. When one is attacked (& not always physical), one grabs whatever is at hand. I've heard of cases where a husband/wife has attacked & killed their partners with hammers, knives, even hacksaws (pretty certain Clyde can back this up).

Now think of that on a national level. We are all human. We are born, we die eventually. It would be nice to die in one's own bed of a natural death. Violent death especially those of women & children is but a dark stain on mankind.

Will we ever learn? I very much doubt it!
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Message 1560512 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 9:44:50 UTC

Violent death especially those of women & children is but a dark stain on mankind.


+100:(


Will we ever learn? I very much doubt it!


We can keep on hoping, hope gives strength.
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Message 1560521 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 10:30:20 UTC

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Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict - Part 2


 
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