Bitcoin Utopia (a BOINC project) messing up credit system

Message boards : Number crunching : Bitcoin Utopia (a BOINC project) messing up credit system
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

AuthorMessage
VictordeHollander

Send message
Joined: 13 Feb 12
Posts: 2
Credit: 2,077,998
RAC: 0
Netherlands
Message 1559368 - Posted: 20 Aug 2014, 10:53:58 UTC

Didn't know where to put this, but Bitcoin Utopia (a BOINC poject) is giving users 5 milion - 500 million BOINC credits a day. In two months the project has given 500 billion!!! credits.
This has to stop!
The credits have always been a little different between projects, but this is just insane. The whole BOINC credit system is now entirely meaningless. It's not even real science that they are doing, it's a cryptominer for financing other projects (and they keep 12% for themselves).
Admins/scientists please ask them to reduce their credits by a factor 1000, or better go off BOINC.

For their stats, see also:
http://boincstats.com/en/stats/144/project/detail/overview

Somebody asked them to look at the credits, but the thread was closed by BOINC Utopia admins:
http://www.bitcoinutopia.net/bitcoinutopia/forum_thread.php?id=430
ID: 1559368 · Report as offensive
Richard Haselgrove Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 4 Jul 99
Posts: 14649
Credit: 200,643,578
RAC: 874
United Kingdom
Message 1559375 - Posted: 20 Aug 2014, 11:30:24 UTC - in response to Message 1559368.  

This has been going on for a while now, and has sparked much discussion in many places. I first became aware of it at the end of June, with this thread at GPUGrid.

The BOINC Developers are working in close conjunction with the Bitcoin Utopia project administrators, and the current plan is to separate 'project specific' credit - such as for BU's integer work on ASICs - from the FLOPs-based credit assumed in the original BOINC framework. See CreditGeneralized.

This will take some time to implement, and in the meantime the various statistics sites are handling it as best they can - most importantly, to avoid the integer work showing up as FLOPs, which would be scientifically misleading.
ID: 1559375 · Report as offensive
VictordeHollander

Send message
Joined: 13 Feb 12
Posts: 2
Credit: 2,077,998
RAC: 0
Netherlands
Message 1559382 - Posted: 20 Aug 2014, 12:10:53 UTC

Thanks for the reply. I've read the proposal, I think that would solve the credit issues of many project.
ID: 1559382 · Report as offensive
Alfred and Pauline
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 13 Oct 99
Posts: 37
Credit: 27,139,561
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 1559399 - Posted: 20 Aug 2014, 13:09:04 UTC

Interesting reading.
Don't know much about Bit coin.
Could this be used to supplement funds for Seti@Home ?
ID: 1559399 · Report as offensive
Profile HAL9000
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 11 Sep 99
Posts: 6534
Credit: 196,805,888
RAC: 57
United States
Message 1559412 - Posted: 20 Aug 2014, 13:43:22 UTC - in response to Message 1559399.  

Interesting reading.
Don't know much about Bit coin.
Could this be used to supplement funds for Seti@Home ?

In theory they could setup a campaign so that the proceeds go to SETI@home like they have for other projects. There is currently one for MilkyWay@home for instance.
I could see the politics of the University not wanting to be associated with cryptocurrency possibly being an issue.
SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours
Join the [url=http://tinyurl.com/8y46zvu]BP6/VP6 User Group[
ID: 1559412 · Report as offensive
Sirius B Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 24877
Credit: 3,081,182
RAC: 7
Ireland
Message 1559413 - Posted: 20 Aug 2014, 13:54:43 UTC

The best credit system is one that was used on classic.

Return to Number of WU's processed. The bigger & faster systems will process more than those systems used for everyday purposes and still allow all to crunch.

Badges can still be used, i.e., 1,000,000 WU's, 5/10/15,000,000 etc etc.

The boinc credit system became meaningless several years ago.
ID: 1559413 · Report as offensive
Profile Helli_retiered
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 15 Dec 99
Posts: 707
Credit: 108,785,585
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 1559437 - Posted: 20 Aug 2014, 15:44:26 UTC - in response to Message 1559413.  
Last modified: 20 Aug 2014, 15:46:11 UTC

The best credit system is one that was used on classic.

Return to Number of WU's processed. The bigger & faster systems will process more than those systems used for everyday purposes and still allow all to crunch.

Badges can still be used, i.e., 1,000,000 WU's, 5/10/15,000,000 etc etc.

The boinc credit system became meaningless several years ago.


Dito!

But....it wont't happen. :-(
ID: 1559437 · Report as offensive
juan BFP Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Mar 07
Posts: 9786
Credit: 572,710,851
RAC: 3,799
Panama
Message 1559440 - Posted: 20 Aug 2014, 15:52:48 UTC

A universal "currency" never works in any place.
ID: 1559440 · Report as offensive
Sirius B Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 24877
Credit: 3,081,182
RAC: 7
Ireland
Message 1559447 - Posted: 20 Aug 2014, 16:16:34 UTC - in response to Message 1559440.  

A universal "currency" never works in any place.

However, as the € shows, there are those who think it will.
ID: 1559447 · Report as offensive
juan BFP Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Mar 07
Posts: 9786
Credit: 572,710,851
RAC: 3,799
Panama
Message 1559457 - Posted: 20 Aug 2014, 16:29:34 UTC - in response to Message 1559447.  
Last modified: 20 Aug 2014, 16:30:59 UTC

A universal "currency" never works in any place.

However, as the € shows, there are those who think it will.

At what cost? Ask German tax payers. :(
ID: 1559457 · Report as offensive
Ulrich Metzner
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 3 Jul 02
Posts: 1256
Credit: 13,565,513
RAC: 13
Germany
Message 1559962 - Posted: 21 Aug 2014, 11:20:18 UTC - in response to Message 1559457.  

A universal "currency" never works in any place.

However, as the € shows, there are those who think it will.

At what cost? Ask German tax payers. :(

I couldn't express it any better...
Aloha, Uli

ID: 1559962 · Report as offensive
Profile ML1
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 20147
Credit: 7,508,002
RAC: 20
United Kingdom
Message 1560359 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 0:11:20 UTC - in response to Message 1559440.  
Last modified: 22 Aug 2014, 0:11:32 UTC

A universal "currency" never works in any place.

That can work if you base the 'currency' on some real-world tangible artifact.

A fundamental problem with the present "Cobblestone" unit is that equal measure and credit is given equally to both integer and floating-point calculations, despite the floating-point requiring much greater real-world resources of transistors and electricity as compared to the much more lightweight integer operations.


Hence, can (should) we re-base the Boinc credits on my old idea of energy use or transistor operations based on real-world hardware?...

That would keep us grounded on reality until we can eventually make use of other compute systems such as for going quantum!


Happy fast crunchin',
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 1560359 · Report as offensive
contalis

Send message
Joined: 5 Dec 01
Posts: 28
Credit: 27,237,533
RAC: 73
United States
Message 1561079 - Posted: 23 Aug 2014, 14:02:14 UTC

Seems to me BOINC could take a lesson from bitcoin itself, and limit the amount of credit that any project can "create" over a period of time.
ID: 1561079 · Report as offensive
OzzFan Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 02
Posts: 15691
Credit: 84,761,841
RAC: 28
United States
Message 1561137 - Posted: 23 Aug 2014, 16:08:06 UTC - in response to Message 1561079.  

That's not how bitcoin works. Bitcoin doesn't limit the number of coins you can create over a period of time. Each bitcoin is discovered though calculated hashes in a given algorithm. The earlier you join a bitcoin project, the higher your chances of discovering a hash that no one else has, thereby increasing the number of coins you can create. The more time spent in a bitcoin project, and the more people doing it means that it will be harder and harder to calculate a hash that no one else has, thus creating a new coin.

Such a scheme would not be easily implemented in BOINC. Further, it would actually discourage new participants the longer things draw out.
ID: 1561137 · Report as offensive
Profile HAL9000
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 11 Sep 99
Posts: 6534
Credit: 196,805,888
RAC: 57
United States
Message 1561142 - Posted: 23 Aug 2014, 16:21:03 UTC - in response to Message 1561079.  

Seems to me BOINC could take a lesson from bitcoin itself, and limit the amount of credit that any project can "create" over a period of time.

Given the exponential growth of computing power there would be no logical reason to have a cap on credit.
More importantly credit is not a limited resource with value. It is just a means to track work done. Like a car odometer for miles driven or kilowatt hours for electricity consumed.
SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours
Join the [url=http://tinyurl.com/8y46zvu]BP6/VP6 User Group[
ID: 1561142 · Report as offensive

Message boards : Number crunching : Bitcoin Utopia (a BOINC project) messing up credit system


 
©2024 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.