Setting up A-10 6700 with stock seti


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Profile Tom Miller
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Message 1550926 - Posted: 1 Aug 2014, 13:09:38 UTC

I back leveled to Win7 professional from Win8 to try to get the awkwardness out of figuring out what the heck is going on.

As far as I can tell this app_config.xml runs the cpu cores at half speed (frequency)[and the task manager says they are about 60% busy] and the gpu (pure red on the graph) at full-speed. The problem is the gpu is still taking huge amounts of time (almost as much as the cpu) to complete units.

I do understand that I only have two fpu for my 4 cores.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
<app_config>
<app>
<name>astropulse_v6</name>
<gpu_versions>
<gpu_usage>0.50</gpu_usage>
<cpu_usage>1.00</cpu_usage>
</gpu_versions>
</app>
<app>
<name>setiathome_v7</name>
<gpu_versions>
<gpu_usage>0.50</gpu_usage>
<cpu_usage>1.00</cpu_usage>
</gpu_versions>
</app>
</app_config>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This one allows the cpus to run above half speed (cpu frequency) at least half the time [the task manager thinks they are running at 100%] and the gpu runs at fulltilt (mostly red with some white spikes) over 3/4's of the time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
<app_config>
<app>
<name>astropulse_v6</name>
<gpu_versions>
<gpu_usage>0.50</gpu_usage>
<cpu_usage>0.001</cpu_usage>
</gpu_versions>
</app>
<app>
<name>setiathome_v7</name>
<gpu_versions>
<gpu_usage>0.50</gpu_usage>
<cpu_usage>0.001</cpu_usage>
</gpu_versions>
</app>
</app_config>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not running Astropulse at the moment because I will be reloading Win8 in the next couple of weeks after I figure out the "optimum" settings for this system.

Any ideas? This seems to be all related to how the A-10 architecture is different from a standard cpu and discrete gpu/video card.

Unless the A-10 68XXk stuff (with the 4 cpus + 8 near standalone gpus) is basically advertising hyperbolic) then anything that works on them should work on the 6700?

Tom
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Profile Tom Miller
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Message 1551117 - Posted: 1 Aug 2014, 21:30:16 UTC
Last modified: 1 Aug 2014, 21:31:17 UTC

<app_config>
<app>
<name>astropulse_v6</name>
<gpu_versions>
<gpu_usage>1.0</gpu_usage>
<cpu_usage>1.0</cpu_usage>
</gpu_versions>
</app>
<app>
<name>setiathome_v7</name>
<gpu_versions>
<gpu_usage>1.00</gpu_usage>
<cpu_usage>1.0</cpu_usage>
</gpu_versions>
</app>
</app_config>

Turns out this one is also letting the cpus run at faster than half frequency they flex from half upto near full speed frequency, spending more time higher than half speed). I thought it wasn't. But since this is your typical baseline setup for a Radeon based gpu system.... maybe I am in better shape than I thought.

Tom
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Message 1551165 - Posted: 1 Aug 2014, 23:44:18 UTC


Unless the A-10 68XXk stuff (with the 4 cpus + 8 near standalone gpus) is basically advertising hyperbolic) then anything that works on them should work on the 6700?

It is hyperbolic advertising, you have 2 CPU modules, each module contains 2 integer cores sharing 1 FPU (sort of like Intel's hyperthreading but done at a hardware level instead of code) and the 8 GPU compute units are still just 1 GPU.

Don't be misled by advertising.

Cheers.

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Message 1551396 - Posted: 2 Aug 2014, 11:09:33 UTC

I just ordered a HP Pavilion desktop 500-152ea with an AMD A-10 6700 CPU.But is it a 64-bit CPU? In that case I could install on it a 64-bit Virtual Box so to be able to run ATLAS@home from CERN which requires a 64-bit Virtual Box and cannot run on my SUN WS which has a 32-bit OS and a 32-bit Virtual Box while having a 64-bit Opteron 1210 CPU. The new HP should arrive with Window 8 but, again, I don't know if it will be a 32-bit OS or a 64-bit OS. Anyway, I shall install a 64-bit SuSE Linux OS on it as soon as I get hold of the new machine.
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Message 1551399 - Posted: 2 Aug 2014, 11:32:15 UTC - in response to Message 1551396.

I just ordered a HP Pavilion desktop 500-152ea with an AMD A-10 6700 CPU.But is it a 64-bit CPU?

Yes, it should be 64 Bit: http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-A10-Series%20A10-6700%20-%20AD6700OKA44HL.html
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Message 1551827 - Posted: 3 Aug 2014, 13:09:51 UTC - in response to Message 1551396.

My impression is all of the A-X series are 64 bit. Heck, even my C-60 with Radeon embedded in it is a 64 bit motherboard. I would be fairly surprised if AMD or Intel even sell an general purpose X86 that isn't 64 bit anymore.

Don't get me wrong, there is probably an embedded system X86 out there running 32 bit someplace.

Tom
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Message 1551831 - Posted: 3 Aug 2014, 13:14:02 UTC - in response to Message 1551396.
Last modified: 3 Aug 2014, 13:15:05 UTC

my SUN WS which has a 32-bit OS and a 32-bit Virtual Box while having a 64-bit Opteron 1210 CPU.
Is it possible to upgrade the Sun WS to a 64 bit OS? I am assuming that Sun WS runs some variant of *nix. So does Sun offer a 64 bit version?

Tom
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Message 1551836 - Posted: 3 Aug 2014, 13:22:52 UTC - in response to Message 1551165.

It is hyperbolic advertising, you have 2 CPU modules, each module contains 2 integer cores sharing 1 FPU (sort of like Intel's hyperthreading but done at a hardware level instead of code) and the 8 GPU compute units are still just 1 GPU.

Don't be misled by advertising.

Cheers.


So the one question remains. AMD offers some advanced libraries to take full advantage of the new architecture. Have the developers for the stock Seti apps tried compiling/testing them to see if the claimed speed pickup if there? Or is this something I will have to apply to Lunatic team to try?

I don't really have the setup (or background) to try compiling this stuff myself.

Tom
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Message 1551841 - Posted: 3 Aug 2014, 13:42:33 UTC - in response to Message 1551836.
Last modified: 3 Aug 2014, 13:47:41 UTC

As far as I know and based on my own experiences with that APU, the architecture simply isn't a high performance one.

There's little you can do (outside existing optimized Clients), and as soon as the GPU swamps the limited RAM bandwidth you'll see the typical impact of a shared memory GPU on the rest of the system.

I was very disappointed of the performance and sold the APU shortly thereafter.

I think the best performance can be extracted from the APU by either exclusively running its GPU or at very maximum run one single CPU task besides it.

Having 3 CPU tasks (or god forbid even 4) compete for the limited Cache AND the limited RAM bandwidth with a GPU task running will reduce overall output quite a bit and there's nothing you can do about that fundamental issue.

PS.
I've heard AMD plans to slap high-performance RAM onto its future APUs to yield better performance and migitate the shared memory impact. But that won't come before 2015 the earliest.
The way it is now, they repeated the same shared memory mistakes from the days of the earliest iGPUs on the motherboards.
An APU is a budget compromise solution really that by defaults accepts that bottleneck, but they do make for cheap (and somewhat limited game-able) desktop solutions.
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Message 1551843 - Posted: 3 Aug 2014, 13:45:45 UTC - in response to Message 1551831.

I am assuming that Sun WS runs some variant of *nix. So does Sun offer a 64 bit version?

Tom

I am runing a 32-bit SuSE Linux on it. But it also has a Solaris 64-bit OS running as a Virtual Machine on it. But, unfortunately, there are not recent BOINC clients on Solaris nor BOINC apps of any type. So it is mostly suspended.
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Message 1552164 - Posted: 4 Aug 2014, 12:21:05 UTC - in response to Message 1551841.
Last modified: 4 Aug 2014, 12:25:07 UTC

I have been running first cpu only Seti load and now gpu only Seti loads.

It appears that the cpu only loads get significantly faster than they did with contending with the cpu. I think it has to do with the fact that the cpu frequency speed was staying solidly at 3.7Mhz whereas it was not staying at that when the GPU was active. That said it seems to be running about 5-5 1/2 hours per cpu work unit. I have an Intel Duo 2 core cpu that was averaging 3 1/2 to 4 hours per cpu wu. I am assuming the two FPU's for 4 cores is coming into play here.

The first 4 GPU only wu I just ran all took about 2 1/2 hours. But I am only running 1 WU on it at a time.

So that looks like: (24 / 5.5)* 4 = 17 plus wu for the cpu in 24 hours and (24 / 2.5) * 1 = 9 plus work units in 24 hours.

After running a slightly longer baseline on the GPU I am going to install the RAM upgrade and see how much it impacts things.

But you are right. The productivity for compute intensive tasks seems to be lower than the equivalent Intel/Nividia combo. Since this was also bought for Mixed use and for being basically "new" (eg. 2013/2014) since some of my vendors require "newer" hardware I will probably keep it no matter what.

Thanks for your reply.

Tom
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Message 1552722 - Posted: 5 Aug 2014, 22:27:01 UTC

I have discovered that an HP Envy 700-200z and probably the HP Envy 700-056 will not use the higher speed ram that the reviewers say can be used with an A-10 6700 cpu/gpu. I believe this is all the motherboard/bio "fault" in providing no flexibility at all. Furthermore it looks as if you can't setup the appropriate Radeon cards to do "crossfire" unless they do that "automagically". There certainly is nothing in the bios to turn it on/off.

Since this was supposed to be a dual-use machine I will continue down that path.

But if you plan on buying any kind of A-10 cpu plan on buying the performance version of the motherboard (I think it has an 88 type chip set) and make sure the bio's fully supports tinkering/overclocking so you can tune it to what you want.

Right now, I think some kind of Intel I3 even with no hyper threading and a GTX750Ti would be a better bang for the buck.

Thanks,
Tom
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Message 1552751 - Posted: 6 Aug 2014, 0:19:07 UTC - in response to Message 1552722.

Right now, I think some kind of Intel I3 even with no hyper threading and a GTX750Ti would be a better bang for the buck.

Unfortunately at the moment AMD are only competitive on price. When it comes to power consumption, and performance, they're not even in the race any more.





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Message 1552752 - Posted: 6 Aug 2014, 0:30:20 UTC - in response to Message 1552751.

Heck maybe a A-10 6700 with a GTX750Ti would be a better compromise. Probably it would be one of the 4 cpu Amd's without a GPU would come out on "top."

Oh, well. Unless something turns really sour I expect to "stay blessed" with this A-10 6700.
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Message 1552855 - Posted: 6 Aug 2014, 11:39:35 UTC
Last modified: 6 Aug 2014, 11:40:21 UTC

I've just started my HP 500 152ea with APU A10-6700 at 3.7 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 1 TB disk, DVD RW, Windows 8. It looks like a fast box, the only thing that did not work were wireless keyboard and mouse, so I had to link to them the USB cables from my SUN workhorse. I downloaded BOINC 7.2.42 and Virtual Box 4.3.13, then registered to ATLAS@home which demands a 64-bit Virtual Box. The monitor is my Samsung LED TV, used part time since I don't watch much TV. AMD sent me a message about Radeon Catalyst, which I ignored. I have two unemployeds graphic boards, a Sapphire HD 7770 and an Asus GTX 750. Which one would be the more useful? The only BOINC projects using graphic cards I am registered to are SETI@home and Einstein@home.
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Message 1553090 - Posted: 6 Aug 2014, 23:28:58 UTC - in response to Message 1552855.
Last modified: 6 Aug 2014, 23:33:54 UTC

Depends on if you want to run ati work units or cuda work units. I suspect the GTX750 (especially if it is a Ti) will run through cuda workunits at between 10-30 minutes a unit working upto 2 at the same time. Which means it will run 40-60 work units a day.

On the other hand I might be wrong.

So far I haven't found any "fast" processing of ati type work units. They take hours. I hope that is because I don't have a very fast Radeon GPU. But it could also be because its apples and oranges (significantly different data densities in the files).

The GTX will be easier to setup.

Make sure you have plenty of power supply for either.

You can make each a trial of say 3 weeks. Run the buffer out, use the bonic tools to get rid of Seti completely. Uninstall Bonic then re-install/etc. That way you won't have debris leftover.

The Radeon must have the most current ATI drivers. Read the docks. The Radeon actually generates executables with .BIN extensions to do the processing. If you change/update the ATI video drivers you need to delete all the *.BIN extensions and let it re-generate them.

Don't be surprised if the cpu's all slow in frequency to half speed once the gpu is running full tilt. It certainly will happen if you are using the integrated gpu. The Windows 8 task manager will tell you that the cpu frequency has slowed to near half speed. You can believe that. Other utilities will confirm.

If you plan to use the on chip GPU at all, it will be less trouble to use Windows 7. You have to delete all the partitions on the HD to install Windows 7. And unless you have a complete restore image on DVD you won't easily be able to get it back. Using the onboard GPU the driver keeps keeps crashing.

My best guess is either the registry hacks mentioned elsewhere or jacking the parm file up higher than I have tried.

Tom
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Message 1553123 - Posted: 7 Aug 2014, 3:06:52 UTC - in response to Message 1553090.

Unfortunately when you buy a PC with Windows 8 installed you don't receive any CD or DVD with the OS. I bought mine from HP. If I crash the system the only alternative I have is Linux. I have a copy of 64-bit SuSE Linux 13.1 on a DVD.
For the moment I have installed BOINC 7.2.42 and Virtual Box 4.2.16 and am running ATLAS@home units at an amazing speed.
Tullio
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Message 1553124 - Posted: 7 Aug 2014, 3:13:05 UTC - in response to Message 1553123.
Last modified: 7 Aug 2014, 3:14:50 UTC

Unfortunately when you buy a PC with Windows 8 installed you don't receive any CD or DVD with the OS. I bought mine from HP. If I crash the system the only alternative I have is Linux. I have a copy of 64-bit SuSE Linux 13.1 on a DVD.
For the moment I have installed BOINC 7.2.42 and Virtual Box 4.2.16 and am running ATLAS@home units at an amazing speed.
Tullio

I am not a PC person, but the manufactures tend to put recovery partitions on the disk from which you can burn a recovery disk. The computer at my job has been running for years without recovery and I have burned a recovery DVD and installed a backup drive so the system is now covered. Windows help should be able to provide any information you need on the subject.
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Message 1553138 - Posted: 7 Aug 2014, 3:50:47 UTC - in response to Message 1553124.
Last modified: 7 Aug 2014, 3:51:37 UTC

Unfortunately when you buy a PC with Windows 8 installed you don't receive any CD or DVD with the OS. I bought mine from HP. If I crash the system the only alternative I have is Linux. I have a copy of 64-bit SuSE Linux 13.1 on a DVD.
For the moment I have installed BOINC 7.2.42 and Virtual Box 4.2.16 and am running ATLAS@home units at an amazing speed.
Tullio

I am not a PC person, but the manufactures tend to put recovery partitions on the disk from which you can burn a recovery disk. The computer at my job has been running for years without recovery and I have burned a recovery DVD and installed a backup drive so the system is now covered. Windows help should be able to provide any information you need on the subject.

That's 1 thing that manufacturers don't stress enough now about getting those backup disks burnt immediately (especially when the hard drive has died before hand). :-(

Cheers.

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Message 1553143 - Posted: 7 Aug 2014, 4:02:05 UTC - in response to Message 1553138.
Last modified: 7 Aug 2014, 4:10:20 UTC

The problem is that if you buy a new PC you don't get any documentation either on its HW or its SW. Only a leaflet in 25 languages with some hints.
Tullio
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