The Israel and Palestine conflict

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Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
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Message 1556387 - Posted: 13 Aug 2014, 21:08:26 UTC - in response to Message 1556385.  

This isn't going to help, BBC, Breaking News - Gaza rocket 'launched on Israel'

Rocket fired from Gaza lands in southern Israel hours before the expiry of three-day ceasefire, police say

More to follow.


Israeli police says Hamas did.
Hamas says it didn't.

Hamas says it will extend the ceasefire

CBC news

Someone did. Perhaps an unauthorized launch?
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Message 1556388 - Posted: 13 Aug 2014, 21:09:56 UTC - in response to Message 1556386.  

Do you have an answer?
Encourage a religion that shows a better way for all.Why a religion at all?


People need a 'religion', something to believe in, something that gives them 'hope'.

No they don't, or shouldn't. At least I thought we, humans, were well beyond the age of mysticism! If not, then the killing will continue unabated.


Agree Gary. I feel that humans should concentrate on the world that actually exists to make it a better place for all human beings instead of investing in some magical place somewhere else.
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Message 1556527 - Posted: 14 Aug 2014, 3:26:41 UTC - in response to Message 1556082.  

How would YOU defend your Family/Country against those who wish to Exterminate those who aren't THEM?

Yeah yeah, you have asked that question a dozen times now. You know my answer.

Why don't you answer your own question? How would you defend against people who wish to exterminate you. If your answer is self defense through the use of deadly force then you have justified the actions of Hamas as much as the actions of Israel.

Still refuse to answer WHAT YOU would do. Not what you WOULD NOT do.

Therefore. One MUST surmise you are admitting losing the argument.


Clyde's demands for ideas from others are ... ?
Clyde's selective reading is ... ?
Clyde is ... ?
Further responses to Clyde will be ... ?

Please folks, erect your S.E.P. fields around him.
Drop the E from that acronym and you have, in Scientology, ... ?

He has admitted what he is doing. Stop wasting your time with him. Keep calm, post on, to nearly everyone else here who is legitimately trying to express their thoughts, ideas and concerns.
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Message 1556559 - Posted: 14 Aug 2014, 5:08:40 UTC - in response to Message 1556527.  
Last modified: 14 Aug 2014, 5:10:28 UTC

Therefore. One MUST surmise you are admitting losing the argument.


Clyde's demands for ideas from others are ... ?
Clyde's selective reading is ... ?
Clyde is ... ?
Further responses to Clyde will be ... ?

Just the same as another poster who frequently declared himself the winner?

Clyde however does not seem to have the dank small of the underside of a bridge that the other poster did.

I realize that much of Clyde's professional training boils down to "a suitable targeted application of violence will solve any problem." In his world, it would, at least temporarily or long enough to get the perp in a cell and be someone else's problem. Of course with recidivism running at over 66% he should also realize that an application of violence, without anything else, is most likely the worst way to achieve a long term solution.

He wants someone to bite and call for genocide. To him it is like a skirmish line where you beat anything that moves (guilty or innocent) until it stops moving or runs away. Everyone else here, sees genocide for genocide.

Yes, if Israel killed all Arabs there would be a temporary peace. Then the world would have to kill all the Israeli's for their war crime. That might get a more lasting peace.

If Israel were to actually occupy Gaza for a decade or so to sort through the people and remove those who simply can not or will not live in peace that might have a better chance. However Israel won't do that as they would have to rebuild Gaza like the Marshall plan. They might become BFF's with the Palestinians and that is forbidden by Zionist teachings.

What would I do? First I would ask Clyde for the third time if evil is an idea? Then I'd remind him he called for the defeat of evil (an idea) so he understands that you can not military defeat an idea so he is asking an nonsense question.

One side has to call uncle so the other can pick it up, rebuild it and become BFF's. No other method can produce a long term solution.

If that won't happen, then we need to put them both together in a pen. A pen whose walls get smaller all the time, so it forces them into close contact. They will eventually have to cooperate to stop the walls getting smaller. Once they do, then the world can let them out of the pen.
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Message 1556569 - Posted: 14 Aug 2014, 5:19:55 UTC - in response to Message 1556559.  

Therefore. One MUST surmise you are admitting losing the argument.


Clyde's demands for ideas from others are ... ?
Clyde's selective reading is ... ?
Clyde is ... ?
Further responses to Clyde will be ... ?

Just the same as another poster who frequently declared himself the winner?

Clyde however does not seem to have the dank small of the underside of a bridge that the other poster did.

I realize that much of Clyde's professional training boils down to "a suitable targeted application of violence will solve any problem." In his world, it would, at least temporarily or long enough to get the perp in a cell and be someone else's problem. Of course with recidivism running at over 66% he should also realize that an application of violence, without anything else, is most likely the worst way to achieve a long term solution.

He wants someone to bite and call for genocide. To him it is like a skirmish line where you beat anything that moves (guilty or innocent) until it stops moving or runs away. Everyone else here, sees genocide for genocide.

Yes, if Israel killed all Arabs there would be a temporary peace. Then the world would have to kill all the Israeli's for their war crime. That might get a more lasting peace.

If Israel were to actually occupy Gaza for a decade or so to sort through the people and remove those who simply can not or will not live in peace that might have a better chance. However Israel won't do that as they would have to rebuild Gaza like the Marshall plan. They might become BFF's with the Palestinians and that is forbidden by Zionist teachings.

What would I do? First I would ask Clyde for the third time if evil is an idea? Then I'd remind him he called for the defeat of evil (an idea) so he understands that you can not military defeat an idea so he is asking an nonsense question.

One side has to call uncle so the other can pick it up, rebuild it and become BFF's. No other method can produce a long term solution.

If that won't happen, then we need to put them both together in a pen. A pen whose walls get smaller all the time, so it forces them into close contact. They will eventually have to cooperate to stop the walls getting smaller. Once they do, then the world can let them out of the pen.

I actually agree with a lot of what you've said here. However, the piece you are missing and that we've been trying to point out is the unconditional support Israel has been receiving from certain countries around the world. Israel has no incentive to stop while people collude with them over the crimes they are committing.

If there is to be a solution, the support for Israel has to be conditional.
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Message 1556591 - Posted: 14 Aug 2014, 5:50:12 UTC - in response to Message 1556569.  

But what about the support Hamas must be getting, probably from Qatar in the UAE and possibly Turkey. Hamas cannot have or build arms without outside aid, and all the building materials for the tunnels doesn't come cheap. I read somewhere that the tunnels Israel destroyed probably cost ~$20 million.

And how much support does Israel need, quote from Wiki on Israels economy -
The economy of Israel is a market economy. As of 2012, Israel ranks 16th among 187 nations on the UN's Human Development Index, which places it in the category of "Very Highly Developed"


and it's citizen pay, almost an arm and a leg to import some goods, import duty on new car is 120% on value at import port, and it must be of very specific standards.
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Message 1556602 - Posted: 14 Aug 2014, 6:09:55 UTC - in response to Message 1556591.  

But what about the support Hamas must be getting, probably from Qatar in the UAE and possibly Turkey. Hamas cannot have or build arms without outside aid, and all the building materials for the tunnels doesn't come cheap. I read somewhere that the tunnels Israel destroyed probably cost ~$20 million.

And how much support does Israel need, quote from Wiki on Israels economy -
The economy of Israel is a market economy. As of 2012, Israel ranks 16th among 187 nations on the UN's Human Development Index, which places it in the category of "Very Highly Developed"


and it's citizen pay, almost an arm and a leg to import some goods, import duty on new car is 120% on value at import port, and it must be of very specific standards.


Your last paragraph is quite Freudian because all I've seen in the news the last few weeks is arms, legs, a multitude of body parts from the slaughtered civilians of Gaza.
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Message 1556613 - Posted: 14 Aug 2014, 6:27:02 UTC - in response to Message 1556596.  

Can you stop misrepresenting what other's say. Why are you stating to other's in this discussion, I did not respond to 'If Evil was an Idea'.

I DID: Message 1556235

No. It just part of the human DNA.

We all have it. Some more (MUCH MORE), some less.

But. Those with Great Evil, DO have Idea's.

Missed it in with the pile of messages, happens.

So now evil is DNA. Can you point out which gene it is encoded in?
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Message 1556703 - Posted: 14 Aug 2014, 13:38:09 UTC - in response to Message 1556701.  

Can you stop misrepresenting what other's say. Why are you stating to other's in this discussion, I did not respond to 'If Evil was an Idea'.

I DID: Message 1556235

No. It just part of the human DNA.

We all have it. Some more (MUCH MORE), some less.

But. Those with Great Evil, DO have Idea's.

Missed it in with the pile of messages, happens.

So now evil is DNA. Can you point out which gene it is encoded in?

GOOD QUESTION, at last!

I'm assuming there have been good, evil, in-between Human's, since the present Human's Evolved (devolved?): It would be an interesting point of discussion, in another board, if these 'traits' are inherited, learned, or a combination of both.


Interesting... Are people really born with evil in them or does it grow on them, is it because of indoctrination maybe, or influences from outside? Can someone maybe provide a link to proof that evil can be found in the DNA? This should indeed be discussed in another board probably...
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Message 1556713 - Posted: 14 Aug 2014, 13:56:52 UTC - in response to Message 1556708.  

Can you stop misrepresenting what other's say. Why are you stating to other's in this discussion, I did not respond to 'If Evil was an Idea'.

I DID: Message 1556235

No. It just part of the human DNA.

We all have it. Some more (MUCH MORE), some less.

But. Those with Great Evil, DO have Idea's.

Missed it in with the pile of messages, happens.

So now evil is DNA. Can you point out which gene it is encoded in?

GOOD QUESTION, at last!

I'm assuming there have been good, evil, in-between Human's, since the present Human's Evolved (devolved?): It would be an interesting point of discussion, in another board, if these 'traits' are inherited, learned, or a combination of both.


Interesting... Are people really born with evil in them or does it grow on them, is it because of indoctrination maybe, or influences from outside? Can someone maybe provide a link to proof that evil can be found in the DNA? This should indeed be discussed in another board probably...

This is assuming the present day knowledge of DNA is complete. Interesting new research, has shown that there may be other factor's, besides DNA, inside our chromosome's, which control us.

But I second that this discussion belongs in another board.


Created a thread on the matter:

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=75412

Really interesting stuff...
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Message 1556799 - Posted: 14 Aug 2014, 16:54:24 UTC

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Message 1557015 - Posted: 14 Aug 2014, 22:23:53 UTC - in response to Message 1555095.  

As usual Anniet, you've made a thoughtful well researched post. I admire you for the time you put in. It is sad though that there are people in this thread who cannot cope with the cognitive dissonance and who quickly revert back to the allowed media talking points on this topic.

Awwww.... thank you Es :) I suppose it might be a waste of my time... but cognitive dissonance is like travel... it broadens the mind :) *thoughtfully twirl something hairy between nose and upper lip then carefully tuck into ears*

I must say I do like your posts... they're so... to the point... Like this one from around the time my moustache re-sprouted :) which I meant to acknowledge at the time but got sidetracked from :(

Anyway, there are many others which I STILL have not responded to... like poor Hev! she's SO patient! And 297902 – to whom I don't think I've even said hello to yet :( And of course Winterknight and others too. I will get there in the end :) but as Hev pointed out... digging does take time... *sigh* It's the heads you see... sand is absolutely riddled with them...

Oh and it doesn't help THAT MY BROADBANDkeeps going WONKY again... leaving me with no sand to play in at all... *sob* so if I go silent again - you'll know why...

There cannot be a peace process until the rights of the Palestinians who live there are recognised.

Not one that lasts no... and quite frankly, my recent digging (not ready for posting yet) indicates Israel does NOT want peace if it means a two state solution and certainly not if it involves allowing any Palestinians to live in the Gaza strip :(

If people want to claim that Israel stands for all Jews (which is patently not the case) then the abused have become the abuser. This is sadly not an uncommon thing to happen.

Unfortunately they do seem to be giving the impression at least, of having developed a taste for persecuting others and have become very adept at justifying it to themselves... and their moderate voices are increasingly being seen as valid targets... not good. :(
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Message 1557097 - Posted: 15 Aug 2014, 1:33:49 UTC - in response to Message 1557015.  

Hi Annie,
Just a quick one on this two state thing, wasn't that already decided when Israel got the area in the West and Jordan became the area in the East?

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Message 1557111 - Posted: 15 Aug 2014, 2:04:28 UTC - in response to Message 1557097.  
Last modified: 15 Aug 2014, 2:04:58 UTC

Hi Annie,
Just a quick one on this two state thing, wasn't that already decided when Israel got the area in the West and Jordan became the area in the East?

W-K


heh heh heh :) I see what you did there :) whether you'll see what I did here depends on whether my broadband lasts longer than two minutes :)
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Message 1557195 - Posted: 15 Aug 2014, 6:47:11 UTC
Last modified: 15 Aug 2014, 7:05:28 UTC

Hello everyone. Hope you are all well :) Apologies to Winterknight and Gary... I did think this post would be a relatively quick one to prepare... I was wrong. It is a bit of a backtrack, but I got the impression you thought no one other than yourselves (and maybe Dead, and possibly Clyde) were paying proper attention :)

Both of you very kindly pointed out some examples of possible “Hamas propaganda” for us to consider and I have been considering them a lot.

First, I looked at this one...The "unexploded Israeli missile" welded bomb suspicion...

Now the pictures in that post originate from reporters working for the Anadolu Agency (Turkey's oldest news source). The agency has had criticisms levelled against it from some quarters, but a quick look indicated nothing too untoward until I stumbled across a fracas with the UK's Guardian newspaper. They had suggested a friendly reporter-exchange arrangement... but it had far from friendly repercussions for Anadolu and it seems, was never intended to last long, because both Guardian reporters did a moonlight flit. The names of the "reporters" would also turn out to be nowhere in the Guardians's official list of employees or freelance contributors. When challenged on a subsequent anonymous/unattributed smear that followed a few days later, the Guardian neither proved their claims... nor withdrew them, or even acknowledged that they stood by them or who was behind them. That kind of surprised me. I have long considered the newspaper to be one of the better for unbiased/ethical reporting... I had either always been wrong or something somewhere had changed, so I dug a little deeper and discovered my own head partially buried in the sand :/
It's apparently been there for up to five years...
For: *So why are my rose-tinted spectacles now dangling from just one ear...? see below.

As we already know, Turkey does support the right of Palestinians in Gaza not to be bombed and not to be kept under siege conditions. This instantly puts them in the crosshairs of Israel's Ministry of Information. * Certainly their attempt to provide aid to the people trapped in Gaza via the 2010 freedom flotilla... and recent reports suggesting another attempt will be made, is not making them any friends amongst the Zionist set.

Of course, the Anadolu Agency being Turkish WILL lead some here to dismiss them out of hand, and that has undoubtedly been assisted by the grip Israel appears to have, both directly and indirectly, on some sectors of our “independent western media” * but it seems NOT so Getty images. In December 2013, Anadolu and Getty Images announced a global distribution partnership in which the latter would...

“represent and license the agency’s prestigious offering of editorial images and video”

Whilst faffing about in a search engine prior to digging my head up - I had scrolled through some references to Getty Images which hadn't seemed very flattering but, on going back to some and digging around there was more than a suggestion of the beginnings of a smear campaign from far right Zionist sources and “watchers”* claiming that Getty's employees are (to use one of the less inflammatory or objectionable claims) mudslime.

Donning my wellington boots, just in case, I started with a quick background check into Getty Images hierarchy. I found out that their Co-Founder and CEO is Jonathan Klein. Jonathan Klein was born in South Africa. He is also Jewish. But don't worry :) I am not going down THAT path again here because he is NOT cast from the same racist/genocidal mould as the far right wing (ex-South African Zionists) within Israel's borders.

This is what Jonathan has to say about his roots: I carried my passport and nationality with enormous shame.

It left him with “a heartfelt commitment to international press freedom” and for me, having also lived within that country with my eyes, ears and heart open to the awful, shameful injustice around me, whilst reading newspapers that were gagged and muzzled, I will trust this man's judgement with regards the Anadolu Agency for now. If his commitment to international press freedom is why he is at risk of joining an ever-growing list of “anti-semitic” Jews and having his employees smeared as a result, it says only that Israel has lost its perspective... in more places than just Gaza :(

So why has this picture, posted twice (apparently from two separate sources) aroused such a long comment from me? It's because “the news expert” (behind where the pictures' urls indicate they were sourced) is... Thomas Wictor – a somewhat troubled man... If the first one indeed came from following links within The Telegraph's reporting of “the market place bombing”... (quotation marks as mark of respect to the “propaganda theory” given :)) then it doesn't say much for the quality of the Telegraph's sources and the rigour with which they check them, or it IS saying a lot about the Telegraph – of which not a lot of it is good.... :/

And while we're on the subject, why not have a quick scroll through Thomas's intro's to his August Archive...? accessed from his “News” link. If you're expecting top-notch reporting and comment, please take precautions to avoid damage to your keyboard when your lower jaw hits the space bar...

It's a shame, because I was prepared to chalk that one up as potentially of merit...

It may still be of course but... Well... given the source from which this image was brought to us... whatever suspicions were expressed in the rest of the post about welded bombs (etc)... they have, like the bomb itself, sort of lost their lustre somewhat... and as I don't know a lot about what a bomb that has been fired/dropped from a great height onto the ground/buildings/people but failed to go off is supposed to look like (but I do know, during attempts to make it safe :( one exploded in Gaza on Wednesday, killing six people) I will agree to the probability of the linked material being propaganda, but with a completely different set of fingerprints all over it... I hope you don't mind? :)

So what about this one? Gary's flying leap: Shooting rockets from an open market?! That is a big war crime. Where is the outrage?

My! That was a big leap! :) Shall we look at the launch pad? :)

The Investigative Project on Terrorism (known to those who have visited its offices as: “The Bat Cave”) was founded by Steven Emerson, a frequent guest commentator on Fox News, who, through expertly claiming...
- that Yugoslavians were the suspects behind the World Trade Centre bombing;
- that "Middle Eastern terrorists" were to blame for the Oklahoma bombing (which must have surprised Timothy McVeigh somewhat);
- and (amongst other gaffes and blunders) inspirationally promoted a “whistleblower”case to congress about Pakistan's military plans to launch a pre-emptive strike on India... with the much-prized leak being a “top Pakistani nuclear scientist” personally vetted and checked out by Emerson himself, who was in fact a low-level accountant who'd been sacked from a company that made bathroom fittings...

... Steven had obviously built up enough of a dazzling CV to convince Bush The Dimmer that he'd finally found the best man for making the watertight case for the Weapons of mass deception... er... destruction / War on Iraq... in which the Investigative Project on Terrorism played a key role.

Basically... this private sector counter terror agency is essentially a vehicle for promoting Steven Emerson the “misinformation expert”'s work... (which has been reviewed as being "marred by factual errors” ... “marked by a pervasive anti-Arab and anti-Palestinian bias” ... “"full of misstatements and misapprehensions." ... and left him summed up as a "heavy-handed scaremonger who fails to grasp – or deliberately blurs – the most rudimentary distinctions between different radical groups.")

He also regularly hosted former Israeli intelligence commander Yigal Carmon at his home (until Carmon established his own base in Washington) on Carmon's frequent trips to lobby Congress AGAINST Middle East peace initiatives In addition, he maintains VERY close ties to Israeli intelligence... why not?! He is Jewish, he is influential, has congress's ear and he is a Zionist after all. But the groups and individuals with whom Emerson is affiliated make for some eye-watering reading. They include private military and intelligence companies, arms and aviation corporations, arms suppliers and their lobbyist chums, and their funding is a positive cesspit. But let's just keep it simple and look at one individual he is linked with... let's try Evan Kohlmann.

Evan cannot read, write or speak Arabic yet makes his living as an “expert witness for hire” testifying in almost every trial in which the US has prosecuted “middle-eastern terrorists” of Arab/ Muslim descent... including those in Guantanamo Bay – not exactly one of America's proudest moments. According to New York News And Politics, since 9/11 America's Criminal Justice System “has produced a raft of cases that look more frightening at the initial press conference than they do once evidence is admitted at trial... and situations in which, the only terrorist plots the defendants have participated in are those invented by the government.” But are they invented by the government or is the government getting some “expert assistance”?

In the UK we have an expression “jobs for the boys” and this is how it seems to work for these two collaborators. Kohlmann feeds Emerson (and his Investigative Project on Terrorism) his “research”... Emerson sows his anti-Arab-anti-Palestinian seeds in congress... and then, win or lose, both clean up at the subsequent trial, aided in part no doubt, by at least one top man in the Justice department, and a federal prosecutor, both personal friends of Emerson. I won't post the travesties of justice I came across when I looked into some of the trials these guys have worked their conjuring tricks in... as it IS off topic for this thread, but one in particular... made me weep for the defendants :(

I haven't had time to look at any more of the “Hamas propaganda proofs” you've both provided us with :( *Sigh* I am sorry. I will try to do so at a later date, but the first two have left me gasping for some MUCH fresher air and I have so much to tell Hev and 297902 (amongst others I've been neglecting). So given the tragi/comic unholy alliance behind the Investigative Project on Terrorism, I once again find myself faced with something that definitely has the stench of propaganda wafting from it... *sniff* but again... it seems to be blowing in from a Zionist muck-spreader... so quite what to make of the theory put forward I'll leave to others who don't have a problem with its source :)

I do hope I have put your minds at rest in the meantime with regards this little chat you had...

Don't bet on an outrage.
Anti-Israeli protester's have another agenda.

I expect silence.


Did you? Really? :) I do hope my racket didn't startle you? Rest assured... I will be back :) Who knows... I may even find one on which we agree! :)

And this one, Gary... where you congratulated Winterknight...
As I said long ago on this thread, getting information from Gaza that has not been censored by Hamas is hard. Good find.

What can I say... erm... likewise? Your... unformation... it was... it was superb... :) thank you

*So why are my rose-tinted spectacles now dangling from just one ear...?
Well, it seems that whilst I was technologically challenged and living an internet free existence... in 2009 the Guardian launched Cif Watch - purportedly dedicated 'to monitoring and exposing anti-semitism on the Guardian newspaper’s ‘Comment is Free’ blog'. Now I don't doubt the importance of the expressed aim... anti-semitism is abhorrent... and they no doubt do a very good job of policing against it. However, Cif Watch's aim in the past couple of years, if it hadn't already been corrupted from the start, appears to be increasingly about discrediting, harrassing and anonymously smearing critics of Israel's human right's record, usually with contemptible and unfounded accusations... and we've had an unfortunate taste of some of their preferred “labels of choice” on these boards.

But their definition of anti-semitism is now almost as blurred as the Israeli regime's definition of what constitutes a “border” and quite frankly, they appear to be increasingly losing the plot at the same time as the newspaper is seeing a rise in pro-Israeli staff members alongside a rise in smearing “anti-semitic” Jews and organisations such as the Anadolu Agency, Human Right's watch etc, etc :(

The Guardian has certainly been the subject of increasing criticism of it's coverage of this latest conflict So too has the BBC (which I raised in a previous post) and as a license fee payer I was not very happy to discover (whilst following the Cif Watch trail) that the BBC relaunched it's BBC Watch website in 2012 as a sister project to Cif Watch. It shouldn't matter... the BBC has been “watched” by Israeli lawyers since 2000... but the law firm has since moved to Israel leaving the vacuum to be filled by the US-based Israel lobby media monitor group CAMERA (the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America) and they are very closely affiliated to and linked with Israel's Ministry of Information (now called the Public Diplomacy and Diaspora Affairs Ministry - to give it it's full title – whose role is to “educate” *shiver down anniet's spine recalling brush with a panel of official government representatives in apartheid South Africa recommending she “underwent citizenship retraining”*

Get noticed by these guys and you are effectively a sitting duck in Israels's PDDAM (and possibly even Mossad's) crosshairs :( What does matter to me as a BBC license payer, given the actions referred to above by Cif... is that BOTH sites are run by the SAME Managing Editor and both are “independently supported” by CAMERA... (so whoever came up with the term: world wide web... wasn't wrong) but whilst I can choose not to buy The Guardian newspaper, or choose not to watch the BBC... to have access to any television at all, I am legally obliged to pay them to not watch them... :/ *brief scowl*

[note to self]when it comes to researching possible Zionist propaganda posts on issues relating to Israel and Palestine, SO FAR anniet, to avoid duplicating your work... The Guardian, The BBC, The Telegraph, Honest Reporting (haven't explained that one to everyone yet, but I will :)) The Investigative Project on Terrorism (and it's affiliates)... possibly CAMERA – because I haven't checked them out yet as the broadband went nuts again :( and of course dear old Thomas Wictor :) can ALL be pooh-poohed in order to save time :)[/note to self]

Oh... are you still here? :) That WAS a long one wasn't it... I wonder if I've just broken my own record...?

Thank you to all those who managed to get this far :)
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Message 1557405 - Posted: 15 Aug 2014, 17:36:05 UTC

Meanwhile...pictures (aesthetic not bloody)

some lovely old photos of Palestinians in Palestine
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Message 1557598 - Posted: 16 Aug 2014, 0:46:10 UTC

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Message 1557636 - Posted: 16 Aug 2014, 2:26:05 UTC

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Message 1557640 - Posted: 16 Aug 2014, 2:59:49 UTC - in response to Message 1557636.  

"purported"
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/08/15/purported-letter-from-inside-gaza-tells-tunnel-toil-hamas-cruelty/
I'll take that one with a pinch of saltder.

Can the EU actually pull it off?
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/08/15/hamas-negotiators-in-qatar-to-discuss-israel-truce-proposal-with-group/


I'll take the tunnel letter with a pinch of salt I think. Especially as the article was illustrated with a photo of the latest tunnel under the Mexican border.

The EU proposal sounds interesting though.
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Message 1557650 - Posted: 16 Aug 2014, 3:41:07 UTC - in response to Message 1557640.  

"purported"
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/08/15/purported-letter-from-inside-gaza-tells-tunnel-toil-hamas-cruelty/
I'll take that one with a pinch of saltder.

Can the EU actually pull it off?
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/08/15/hamas-negotiators-in-qatar-to-discuss-israel-truce-proposal-with-group/


I'll take the tunnel letter with a pinch of salt I think. Especially as the article was illustrated with a photo of the latest tunnel under the Mexican border.

The EU proposal sounds interesting though.

Reports that children have died digging the Gaza tunnels have been around since late 2011, early 2012.

Google "Rashid Khalidi" he's a Professor of Modern Arab Studies at Columbia University and apparently a friend of President Obama.
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Message boards : Politics : The Israel and Palestine conflict


 
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