Please Sirius, when you quote me limit your responses to comments I made. Everything below your comment about the UN has NOTHING to do with any comment I made.

And my comments about the UN were only applicable if the UN had any real power or the USA and Russia were to work together on that solution.

I agree that UN peacekeepers in the middle east are ineffective.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

This is the real world where debate flows, not a non stop argument about a single issue.

Your comment was answered. What came after was another comment on the topic of the thread.

What do you not understand about real world conversations?

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Give the people something different? With AK47's in their face? How do you do that?

Now that is the question isn't it? But this is a far more interesting and important question to ask than thinking of this as a purely military affair that can be solved through clever military strategy and tactics using troops and artillery.

Abusing History by mentioning Hamas loves the NAZI's? Would it be simpler for you if Hamas used the NAZI Salute? What would you think then? What is the difference?

You are abusing history because you are using Nazis as a cheap method to further vilify Hamas as the 'ultimate evil'. By doing so, you turn this whole conflict in an extremely black and white affair, dehumanizing the Palestinian side even further and silencing their point of view. You shouldn't turn Hamas into some kind of monster because it stops you from looking at things from the other sides point of view. It makes you fundamentally incapable of ever creating a solution for this conflict that does not involve brute force and war crimes.

Yeah, Hamas is a bad organization, but their motivation and their grievances must be understood and addressed. And they definitely have a few valid points about this conflict. Or to make it more understandable for you and use your Nazi metaphor; Hitler was an evil person, but he had a point when he said the Treaty of Versailles was a disgrace and unfair to Germany.

You are abusing history because you are using Nazis as a cheap method to further vilify Hamas as the 'ultimate evil'.

& you are abusing "law" by stating law without fully understanding or researching it. I 'm still waiting for your answer...

You stated

the reply was...

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You are abusing history because you are using Nazis as a cheap method to further vilify Hamas as the 'ultimate evil'.

& you are abusing "law" by stating law without fully understanding or researching it. I 'm still waiting for your answer...

You stated

the reply was...

Fine

I'm not suggesting anything! The killing of Osama bin Laden was legal under International Law? The Pakistani Government were informed of the raid? Countless drones flown over Pakistani territory with the full approval of the Pakistani government? Where is your legitimate democratic law in this case?

I don't really see the relevance of this bit. Although on the drone strike part, I suspect that the US actually has the permission of Pakistan. For one, the US is cleaning up the area of extremists for the Pakistani government. Its just that the Pakistani government can never admit to allowing the US to assassinate troublemakers in Pakistan. So, for the camera's they complain.

That said, I've already stated that I find the American drone program dubious at best, and downright criminal and illegal at worst. Its controversial for good reasons.

Those who live within the law should be treated according to that law. Those that live outside the law should be treated by "their standards" not ours. If that was applied, terrorism would not exist as they would be too afraid to take their enemy on, as they would know beyond a doubt that they would be signing their own death warrant.

Oh yeah, because death is definitely something suicide bombers are afraid off. And Israel has been using the extremely violent approach towards Palestinian terrorism for decades now, and it has not succeeded in deterring Hamas from shooting rockets at Israel. Honestly if you think that fear is a good way to keep people in check, just take a good look at your history book. Only a few regimes that rely on brutal repression remain stable in the long run. Most of them end in revolution and anarchy.

In any case, you are fine with the idea that once you break the law the government is allowed to do with you whatever it wants to, because the law apparently only applies to people who stick to the law. Lets see how you like it when getting caught speeding means the police is allowed to pull your nails out with a pair of clippers.

Netherlands guy said:

Lets see how you like it when getting caught speeding means the police is allowed to pull your nails out with a pair of clippers.

One So Eloquent states such Crap as above, deserves Not to be Read At All.

fO shO

' '

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Fine

I'm not suggesting anything! The killing of Osama bin Laden was legal under International Law? The Pakistani Government were informed of the raid? Countless drones flown over Pakistani territory with the full approval of the Pakistani government? Where is your legitimate democratic law in this case?

I don't really see the relevance of this bit. Although on the drone strike part, I suspect that the US actually has the permission of Pakistan. For one, the US is cleaning up the area of extremists for the Pakistani government. Its just that the Pakistani government can never admit to allowing the US to assassinate troublemakers in Pakistan. So, for the camera's they complain.

That said, I've already stated that I find the American drone program dubious at best, and downright criminal and illegal at worst. Its controversial for good reasons.

They did not have the Pakistani Government's approval for the Bin Laden raid therefore a breach of International law, wake up child!

Those who live within the law should be treated according to that law. Those that live outside the law should be treated by "their standards" not ours. If that was applied, terrorism would not exist as they would be too afraid to take their enemy on, as they would know beyond a doubt that they would be signing their own death warrant.

Oh yeah, because death is definitely something suicide bombers are afraid off. And Israel has been using the extremely violent approach towards Palestinian terrorism for decades now, and it has not succeeded in deterring Hamas from shooting rockets at Israel. Honestly if you think that fear is a good way to keep people in check, just take a good look at your history book. Only a few regimes that rely on brutal repression remain stable in the long run. Most of them end in revolution and anarchy.

Again, they have no courage to take on a professional force, hence hiding behind women's skirts.

In any case, you are fine with the idea that once you break the law the government is allowed to do with you whatever it wants to, because the law apparently only applies to people who stick to the law. Lets see how you like it when getting caught speeding means the police is allowed to pull your nails out with a pair of clippers.

For one with a BSc, is that all you could come up with?

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I love all of this talk about "law"; "law" is what comes out of the barrel of a gun. In the "Islamic State" the "law" is convert to Sunni Islam or die.

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+1

A very interesting interview...

The real danger to Israel lies within

...however, can you blame them?

"Illouz: Fear is deeply engrained in Israeli society. Fear of the Shoah, fear of anti-Semitism, fear of Islam, fear of Europeans, fear of terror, fear of extermination. You name it. And fear generates a very particular type of thinking, which I would call "catastrophalist." You always think about the worst case scenario, not about a normal course of events. In catastrophalist scenarios, you become allowed to breach many more moral norms than if you imagined a normal course of events."

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Oh dear... my head is spinning with posts... and I STILL haven't caught up with ones dating from when I was so firmly muzzled... but this one from John Neale...

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

My country is now ruled by the African National Congress (ANC), which is an alliance with, among others, the South African Communist Party.

The global icon of the 20th century, Nelson Mandela, was once regarded by many in the western world as a terrorist, including Great Britain and the United States. In the USA, this continued long after Mandela's release from prison, and even long after he became the first president of the democratic South Africa.

So be careful with labels. They come unstuck.

More on topic: how did the ANC progress from terrorist organisation to ruling party? Well, maybe Benjamin Netanyahu should have a chat with FW de Klerk and ask him what he did.

... I absolutely endorse... :) and weren't the South African population (both the oppressed and their former oppressors) amazing! :) I was so proud of them all!! :)

(off for another rummage in the thread now... bye!)

Again, they have no courage to take on a professional force, hence hiding behind women's skirts.

There are no rules in love and WAR!

If it is an effective way to win, then it is an effective to win. So sorry if that offends your Euro-centric sensibilities about some nonsense rules about how WAR is to be fought. I know you liked to line your red coats up on one side of the field and shoot at the other. I think you found out in 1776 that guerrilla warfare, call it alternative warfare, or asymmetric warfare, is highly effective. If you can take your enemy's morality and use it as a weapon against him, so much the better. Or, are you forgetting the point is to win and the method is irrelevant?

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Whoa, hold your horses there cowboy! Euro-centric sensibilities? I don't think so! If you read my posts of the past, you will see that I advocate using the enemy's rules...

...Oh wait, they don't have any! How many times I have stated that on these boards?

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Whoa, hold your horses there cowboy! Euro-centric sensibilities? I don't think so! If you read my posts of the past, you will see that I advocate using the enemy's rules...

...Oh wait, they don't have any! How many times I have stated that on these boards?

"hiding behind women's skirts" sure sounds like Euro-centric sensibility ....

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Whoa, hold your horses there cowboy! Euro-centric sensibilities? I don't think so! If you read my posts of the past, you will see that I advocate using the enemy's rules...

...Oh wait, they don't have any! How many times I have stated that on these boards?

"hiding behind women's skirts" sure sounds like Euro-centric sensibility ....

I've only stated what has been posted or reported by the media. I recall a recent attempt to rescue a hostage by US forces who entered where the hostage was held & threw in a grenade...

...oops, so what was the point for the rescue if that was their attitude?

Again, my posts show my views so how you see that as Euro-centric is beyond me.

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Oh dear... my head is spinning with posts... and I STILL haven't caught up with ones dating from when I was so firmly muzzled... but this one from John Neale...

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

My country is now ruled by the African National Congress (ANC), which is an alliance with, among others, the South African Communist Party.

The global icon of the 20th century, Nelson Mandela, was once regarded by many in the western world as a terrorist, including Great Britain and the United States. In the USA, this continued long after Mandela's release from prison, and even long after he became the first president of the democratic South Africa.

So be careful with labels. They come unstuck.

More on topic: how did the ANC progress from terrorist organisation to ruling party? Well, maybe Benjamin Netanyahu should have a chat with FW de Klerk and ask him what he did.

... I absolutely endorse... :) and weren't the South African population (both the oppressed and their former oppressors) amazing! :) I was so proud of them all!! :)

(off for another rummage in the thread now... bye!)

I'm still working on your previous post anniet. I didn't know about the South Africans who settled in Israel and their connection to the IDF. Some people are making comparisons between Gaza and a Bantustan.

Gaza is a Bantustan

But I also need to do more digging and that does take time.

Some people are making comparisons between Gaza and a Bantustan.

Gaza is a Bantustan

But I also need to do more digging and that does take time.

She is lucky she never lived in Gaza because as women she would not have gotten an education.

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Some people are making comparisons between Gaza and a Bantustan.

Gaza is a Bantustan

But I also need to do more digging and that does take time.

She is lucky she never lived in Gaza because as women she would not have gotten an education.

Not sure of your meaning here. Palestinian women have the highest rates of university graduation than any other Arab country.

Or you commenting on the likely hood of her being murdered by Israeli weapons while she is in a school?

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Reality Internet Personality

Still on some of the thoughts comparing South Africa and Israel, here is the latest from Noam Chomsky in an interview with Amy Goodman of Democracy Now.

"Part 2 of our conversation with famed linguist and political dissident Noam Chomsky on the crisis in Gaza, U.S. support for Israel, apartheid and the BDS movement. "In the Occupied Territories, what Israel is doing is much worse than apartheid," Chomsky says. "To call it apartheid is a gift to Israel, at least if by 'apartheid' you mean South African-style apartheid. What’s happening in the Occupied Territories is much worse. There’s a crucial difference. The South African Nationalists needed the black population. That was their workforce. … The Israeli relationship to the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories is totally different. They just don’t want them. They want them out, or at least in prison."

Israel's Actions in Palestine are "Much Worse than Apartheid" in South Africa

For those with some intellectual curiosity surrounding the complex relationship between Israel and Palestine this is well worth listening to.

Again, my posts show my views so how you see that as Euro-centric is beyond me.

In that part of the world a woman is property, like cattle or camels. Don't assume the European view that a woman is a human being with rights like a man. If you don't understand how they view the world, you will never understand how they make the decisions they do.

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Just thought I'd slip this in here somewhere. Pertains to "us and them".

othering-101: what is "othering"?