Martin your post about the population was very interesting . I'm wondering if that could be a big part of the problem young hot heads . With no Elders to mentor the youth they act like young people do act first think later and by then it's opps what have i done !!

I'm very suspicious that there is something far more coercive and malevolent than that...


After all... How do [young teenagers] learn right from wrong, good from bad?

And where do all their elders go when there are no massacres there to kill everyone off by the age of 20?... Very strange...


Is that area in effect a present day planet Kamino?... Rename Gaza City to Tipoca City?... Too far fetched?... Really?

With the power of religion, that may well be too true to stomach...

Note:

... "There have been statements from Hamas urging women to have more children to create a larger army," he says.

So where are all the Gazan youths going?

I wonder what proportion are fighting the wars in Lebanon, Syria, and now Iraq for the glory of Hamas?

Or is there some other exodus?



All in our only one world,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Don't bet on an outrage.

Anti-Israeli protester's have another agenda.

I expect silence.

http://goo.gl/maps/8i1Dy
Just what are all those roughly parallel linear trench like features? We are in the desert so I'm guessing it isn't water erosion! Could those be collapsed smuggling tunnels?

---

Don't bet on an outrage.

Anti-Israeli protester's have another agenda.

I expect silence.

http://goo.gl/maps/8i1Dy
Just what are all those roughly parallel linear trench like features? We are in the desert so I'm guessing it isn't water erosion! Could those be collapsed smuggling tunnels?

Probably, there were several reports earlier this year that Egypt had destroyed ~1300 tunnels. Google brought up this http://www.thenational.ae/world/palestinian-territories/egyptian-military-says-it-destroyed-1-370-gaza-smuggling-tunnels

edit] Further search on the BBC site brought up this What drove Hamas to take on Israel? 18 July 2014

along with this Egypt gives Hamas and Gaza the cold shoulder, dated 12 April 2014

In other words the Gaza Strip led by Hamas got itself into deep trouble. The change in government in Egypt led to the smuggling tunnels being destroyed. So very little goods were getting into the area.

So they tried to resume talks and agreements with Fatah which, as usual broke up within days. Therefore in desperation probably they increased attacks on Israel, hoping for a strong response that they would exploit.

Getting their fighters to use areas close to civilians so return fire would harm their women and children which would get the headline responses we have seen. And this was augmented with lies and staged events that are now being uncovered.

This latest event started with headlines like, Bombing of School used as refugee centre, then it changed to Attack on school entrance, then to Rocket attack at school gates then it's near school gates.

But all the time, whilst the IDF were pulling back in the North, the IDF advised that in this area in the South was still an area of interest and had advised anyone still there to stay under cover. Not out in the streets.

Just what are all those roughly parallel linear trench like features? We are in the desert so I'm guessing it isn't water erosion! Could those be collapsed smuggling tunnels?

Egypt built a wall to keep the "Palestinians" out. Why don't the ignorant complain about the Egyptian blockade?

---

Just what are all those roughly parallel linear trench like features? We are in the desert so I'm guessing it isn't water erosion! Could those be collapsed smuggling tunnels?

Egypt built a wall to keep the "Palestinians" out. Why don't the ignorant complain about the Egyptian blockade?

Wrong area, the defensive wall separates the West Bank from Israel.

Just what are all those roughly parallel linear trench like features? We are in the desert so I'm guessing it isn't water erosion! Could those be collapsed smuggling tunnels?

Egypt built a wall to keep the "Palestinians" out. Why don't the ignorant complain about the Egyptian blockade?

Wrong area, the defensive wall separates the West Bank from Israel.

HUH?? What map are you looking at?
From the quoted post.

---

Just what are all those roughly parallel linear trench like features? We are in the desert so I'm guessing it isn't water erosion! Could those be collapsed smuggling tunnels?

Egypt built a wall to keep the "Palestinians" out. Why don't the ignorant complain about the Egyptian blockade?

Wrong area, the defensive wall separates the West Bank from Israel.

?????
Someone built a wall between Egypt and Gaza.
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/5618316
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt%E2%80%93Gaza_barrier

---

If that is a wall (according to the link): It is positioned where Batter Up said.

Correct. How sorry are the "Palestinians" when Egypt builds a wall to keep them out?

---

http://www.dw.de/brzuska-hamas-rocket-attacks-are-terrifying/a-17827468

Brzuska: Hamas rocket attacks are 'terrifying'

German scientist Christina Brzuska is living through the war in Tel Aviv first hand. She tells DW how she deals with the rocket bombardment from Hamas and why she stays in Israel in spite of the danger.

---

Just what are all those roughly parallel linear trench like features? We are in the desert so I'm guessing it isn't water erosion! Could those be collapsed smuggling tunnels?

Egypt built a wall to keep the "Palestinians" out. Why don't the ignorant complain about the Egyptian blockade?

Wrong area, the defensive wall separates the West Bank from Israel.

HUH?? What map are you looking at?
From the quoted post.

Sorry my bad, it was very late in the night, actually very early morning, for me, I should have been getting beauty sleep.

Latest article from Chris Hedges, American journalist and a member of the New York Times team that won the Pulitzer Price in 2002.

"George Orwell in his novel “Nineteen Eighty-Four” called this form of propaganda doublethink. Doublethink uses “logic against logic” and “repudiate[s] morality while laying claim to it.” The Big Lie does not allow for the nuances and contradictions that can plague conscience. It is a state-orchestrated response to the dilemma of cognitive dissonance. The Big Lie permits no gray zones. The world is black and white, good and evil, righteous and unrighteous. The Big Lie allows believers to take comfort—a comfort they are desperately seeking—in their own moral superiority at the very moment they have abrogated all morality."

In this article he states that neither he nor any journalist he knows has seen any evidence that Hamas uses civilians as human shields.
He is also a socialist.

Why Israel Lies

Latest article from Chris Hedges, American journalist and a member of the New York Times team that won the Pulitzer Price in 2002.

"George Orwell in his novel “Nineteen Eighty-Four” called this form of propaganda doublethink. Doublethink uses “logic against logic” and “repudiate[s] morality while laying claim to it.” The Big Lie does not allow for the nuances and contradictions that can plague conscience. It is a state-orchestrated response to the dilemma of cognitive dissonance. The Big Lie permits no gray zones. The world is black and white, good and evil, righteous and unrighteous. The Big Lie allows believers to take comfort—a comfort they are desperately seeking—in their own moral superiority at the very moment they have abrogated all morality."

In this article he states that neither he nor any journalist he knows has seen any evidence that Hamas uses civilians as human shields.
He is also a socialist.

Why Israel Lies

And he is just a journalist. He can say what ever his heart desires for the world to belive or not belive.
Im sure if your country was getting a damn missle attack all the time, You would want it to stop.
I think both sides are being stupid. And I think the rest of the world should take a HELL of a lot of that blame for not finding a solution.

---

[/quote]

Old James

I think both sides are being stupid. And I think the rest of the world should take a HELL of a lot of that blame for not finding a solution

+1

---

Latest article from Chris Hedges, American journalist and a member of the New York Times team that won the Pulitzer Price in 2002.

"George Orwell in his novel “Nineteen Eighty-Four” called this form of propaganda doublethink. Doublethink uses “logic against logic” and “repudiate[s] morality while laying claim to it.” The Big Lie does not allow for the nuances and contradictions that can plague conscience. It is a state-orchestrated response to the dilemma of cognitive dissonance. The Big Lie permits no gray zones. The world is black and white, good and evil, righteous and unrighteous. The Big Lie allows believers to take comfort—a comfort they are desperately seeking—in their own moral superiority at the very moment they have abrogated all morality."

In this article he states that neither he nor any journalist he knows has seen any evidence that Hamas uses civilians as human shields.
He is also a socialist.

Why Israel Lies

And he is just a journalist. He can say what ever his heart desires for the world to belive or not belive.
Im sure if your country was getting a damn missle attack all the time, You would want it to stop.
I think both sides are being stupid. And I think the rest of the world should take a HELL of a lot of that blame for not finding a solution.

Funny you should say that. I lived in London UK during the IRA bombing campaign but not once did I ever think that the government should go and flatten the people of Ireland.

Should reporters publicly broadcast or publish their opinions.

Jon Snow’s Gaza appeal risks reducing reporting to propaganda

It also doesn't help when the UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon described the attack on the UN-run school as a "moral outrage and a criminal act", within minutes without checking first. It would have been true if it was an attack on the school, it later turned out to be an attack near the school.

Which to me, makes it similar to the market place attack, another incident that didn't occur as told in the press.

... Im sure if your country was getting a damn missle attack all the time, You would want it to stop.
I think both sides are being stupid. And I think the rest of the world should take a HELL of a lot of that blame for not finding a solution.

Very true. But also very especially: What of their fellow Arabs that are still screaming for retribution and hell and damnation for whatever invented 'injustice' they dream up for the last few thousand years...

There has to be a complete change of heart to accept the present and to look forwards and move forwards from the present we have now.

Or... Do we have time repeat itself endlessly unto Armageddon?...

Funny you should say that. I lived in London UK during the IRA bombing campaign but not once did I ever think that the government should go and flatten the people of Ireland.

Very different case on a very different scale. There never was anything like the Hamas thousands(!) of missiles being randomly lobbed at cities.


For our example of Northern Ireland, politics has bought a political peace. Unfortunately, the sectarianism and organized crime and intimidation continue.

To my mind, the churches and 'elders' in Northern Ireland are completely to blame for still trying to fight old battles that are best long forgotten. The murals in some areas there shout loud in yer face "1984"-style to continue a never-ending strife: FOREVER REMEMBER. Children have to walk past those to go to fortified schools with barbed wire. They grow up with them. The sooner the murals and the posturing and the marches are consigned to the trash bin of ignominy, the sooner those communities can progress to a better life. But when?...


All in our own little world,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Why are you making a distinction between Palestinians and Hamas?
Don't the Palestinians see Hamas as their legitimate government?
And I do not see any calls from you to charge these terrorists with war crimes. The first for using a "Place of Safety" as a firing point, and the second for firing into Israel.
You are making claims that Israel that has the right to respond did not use the appropriate weapon when they responded, because civilians where hit. Now no one wants to see civilians, especially children hit, but they probably wouldn't have been hit if the terrorist didn't fire from so close to the schools and hospitals. Certainly there needs to be an investigation, but from your tone as I read it, you have already declared Israel guilty.

I see that so far you have not responded to my post about the market place incident. Presuming you have looked at it, are you going to tell me that all the other incidents that Hamas claim have been Israeli bombs etc. are true.

There is at least one other hospital incident where some people are saying it was hit by mis-fired Hamas rockets or mortars.

It should not be necessary to endlessly repeat that Hamas is a terrorist organization that commits war crimes itself to an audience that knows this already. It should not be used as a way to attack my arguments 'moral validity'.
Furthermore, responding to war crimes by committing war crimes yourself is ridiculous and unacceptable.

And why do I make a distinction between Palestinians and Hamas? Because they are not the same thing, despite what you claim. If we were to follow your absurd logic, then every American on this board is guilty of gross human right violations, starting an illegal war, breaking the Geneva convention on POW treatment, etc because they democratically elected Bush who started the Iraq war. Hell, you as a British person would also be guilty of those crimes because the UK supported the US in the Iraq war. When can I expect to see you on trial for war crimes? Or is this a ridiculous line of logic because there exists a difference between people and their government and collective responsibility is not actually a thing when it comes to government policy? I thought we had learned the lessons of doing that following the end of WW1.

As for Hamas misfiring rockets and killing Palestinians, I'm sure that has happened on a number of cases. But are you really claiming that it was Hamas that actually bombed Gaza to rubble and that the Israeli artillery and air strikes never did anything? Oh come on, you are more intelligent than this.

Winning, and having better weapons against NAZI Lover's, is a War Crime?

Then The Allies were guilty of YOUR Definition of War Crimes: 20,000 Innocent French Civilian's (including children) killed on D-Day.

We do understand why you really believe Israel should be treated differently.

Funny you should call Hamas nazi lovers. Haven't you seen what kind of things anti pacifist protesters are yelling about the political left and anti war organizations? There have been several calls for the gassing of lefties and pacifists. The Israeli far right political movements sure does seem to flirt with bits of Nazism every now and then.

Also, Israel isn't winning. This conflict will end long before Hamas is defeated. All it does is cause 2 or 3 years of relative calm before it starts all over again.

And please, don't insult everyone's intelligence by drawing parallels to WW2. The fact that WW2 was called the Second WORLD WAR should tell you of the absolute total difference in scale we are talking about.

Taking the legal definition alone as highlighted in red above, where is the furore against Hamas?

Well, see, that is because Hamas is not recognized by anyone as a legitimate government. They are deemed a terrorist organization (and rightly so). Sure, you can say that what they do are war crimes (and people say that like all the time including the Palestinians themselves), but no one expects a terrorist organization to play by the rules. Israel on the other hand, is widely recognized (at least in the West) as a legitimate, democratic, law abiding nation state. We expect them to follow the rules, respect the laws including the laws that are derived from the treaties they have signed.

The outrage over Israel is bigger because Israel doesn't meet our expectations, while Hamas essentially does.

Taking the legal definition alone as highlighted in red above, where is the furore against Hamas?

Well, see, that is because Hamas is not recognized by anyone as a legitimate government. They are deemed a terrorist organization (and rightly so). Sure, you can say that what they do are war crimes (and people say that like all the time including the Palestinians themselves), but no one expects a terrorist organization to play by the rules. Israel on the other hand, is widely recognized (at least in the West) as a legitimate, democratic, law abiding nation state. We expect them to follow the rules, respect the laws including the laws that are derived from the treaties they have signed.

The outrage over Israel is bigger because Israel doesn't meet our expectations, while Hamas essentially does.

I was waiting for that! So "civilised people" that live by the rule of law has to endure countless attacks from an enemy all because the enemy is not "recognised as legitimate"? So you condone the deaths in Israel but disapprove of the deaths caused by the Israeli's?

How civilised you are!

---