Well it isn't like any of the other solutions that have been mentioned would work either. But this discussion isn't about potential solutions. It's about taking sides and then accusing the other side of being cruel and inhumane.

It is a war. Wars end with one side signing an instrument of surrender. When that doesn't happen, look at North Korea!

An accurate observation.

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I have a solution. Stop killing each other.

Not likely. Too much baggage.

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I haven't linked to the site because of the graphic images.

Casualties in Gaza

Over 3300 have been injured, including 822 children and 572 women, with some losing limbs and others disabled for life.

578 were reported to have been killed. The last update by the Palestinian Ministry of Health was July 21 at 23.21.

Of those killed, 129 are children and 69 are women, according to the Palestinian Center for Human Rights.


Casualties in Israel

10 Israeli soldiers

1 Israeli civilian killed by a Palestinian shell

Casualties in Gaza


Casualties in Israel

146,357 deaths each day in the world.

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So what do you suggest, uprating the accuracy of the Hamas weapons and banning the Israeli use of it's dome system, to even up the figures.

I repeat .

These rockets are aimed at Israel’s civilian population, and are unprovoked, sent with murderous intent. Since the beginning of Operation Protective Edge, Hamas has fired over 1,500 rockets into Israel. The Palestinian envoy to the UN human rights council, Ibrahim Khreisheh, observed that Hamas rocket-fire amounts to war crimes, “whether it hits or misses, because it is directed at civilian targets”.

And under the rulings of the "Rome Statute" it is legal for Israel to respond.

I haven't linked to the site because of the graphic images.

Casualties in Gaza

Over 3300 have been injured, including 822 children and 572 women, with some losing limbs and others disabled for life.

578 were reported to have been killed. The last update by the Palestinian Ministry of Health was July 21 at 23.21.

Of those killed, 129 are children and 69 are women, according to the Palestinian Center for Human Rights.


Casualties in Israel

10 Israeli soldiers

1 Israeli civilian killed by a Palestinian shell

...

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Reality Internet Personality

I have a solution. Stop killing each other.

There is little incentive for Israel to find a solution when America and Canada keep patting then on the back and telling them what a great job they are doing.

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Reality Internet Personality

I have a solution. Stop killing each other.

There is little incentive for Israel to find a solution when America and Canada keep patting then on the back and telling them what a great job they are doing.

Don't you think that on the other side Syria and Iran plus others are doing the same thing to the Palestinians. Somebody has to be supplying Hamas with all the weapons, the Palestinians certainly don't have the funds or technology themselves.

I have a solution. Stop killing each other.

There is little incentive for Israel to find a solution when America and Canada keep patting then on the back and telling them what a great job they are doing.

Can't understand why they would do that?
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/06/isil-declares-new-islamic-caliphate-201462917326669749.html

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I haven't linked to the site because of the graphic images.

Casualties in Gaza

Over 3300 have been injured, including 822 children and 572 women, with some losing limbs and others disabled for life.

578 were reported to have been killed. The last update by the Palestinian Ministry of Health was July 21 at 23.21.

Of those killed, 129 are children and 69 are women, according to the Palestinian Center for Human Rights.


Casualties in Israel

10 Israeli soldiers

1 Israeli civilian killed by a Palestinian shell

...

Sorry you believe defending YOUR, and anyone else's children, from psychotic murders, is a numbers game.

I do wonder about those who defend Hamas, and display an EXTREME Hatred for Isreal. They either have no morality, or perhaps something much, much, much worse.

Continue with your rants. It only goes to show why Israel MUST defend themselves.

Why do you equate pointing out a huge disproportion in Israel's response with hate?

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Reality Internet Personality

Why do you equate pointing out a huge disproportion in Israel's response with hate?

Ah, more Euro-think for a required stalemate where both sides continue to kill each other for 10,000 years.

What is "disproportionate?" Why don't you count missiles? Why don't you count suicide bombings? Why don't you count kidnappings?

This is WAR! Is it supposed to be disproportionate.

So answer the implied question. If it just goes on without end, is that more MORAL than if one side of the other ends it quickly with an orgy of death?

<ed>If you prefer not to use the current situation as an example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Taste_of_Armageddon

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Why do you equate pointing out a huge disproportion in Israel's response with hate?

How many rockets has each side fired into the others territory?

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Sorry you believe defending YOUR, and anyone else's children, from psychotic murders, is a numbers game.

You do realise that argument can be used with equal validity by BOTH sides ??

I do wonder about those who defend Hamas, and display an EXTREME Hatred for Israel....

So far in this thread I have not seen anyone "defending Hamas" or displaying "EXTREME hatred for Israel". The entire thread seems limited to criticism of their military tactics.

Certainly Israel has the right to defend itself, nobody has denied that, it's only the way they are doing it that is being questioned. If they stuck to valid targets and left the women, kids and hospitals out of it I don't think anyone here would have an issue.

A moral question. Is it ok to kill someone else's kids because that person or group presents a threat to yours ?

As for Hamas. I would love to know why they keep firing those bottle rockets at the Israelis when it is proven they are ineffective (except for random chance) and are easily destroyed by the Israeli defences. Sometimes I wonder if there is not some sort of Black Ops operation involved just to give Israel an excuse to invade Gaza.

As both a weapon and a tactic these rockets are useless and Hamas knows that using them does nothing but call the wrath of Yahweh down on them. The whole scenario is stupid and pointless.

T.A.

US to send $47M to Gaza Strip
Well that was quick. Hussein Obama still hasn't done as much for the veterans still dying waiting for VA appointments.

How much is the aid sent by the west into Gaza continuing the Gaza death tole?

Gaza is bankrupt.
Humanitarian aid means that the Palestinians spend less on food and medicine.
Aid to rebuild, is probably being diverted to build the tunnels used to smuggle in the arms and materials to make weapons.

So, would decreasing the aid significantly to Gaza, force the Palestinians to stop their attacks and therefore would mean the Israelis wouldn't need to respond and cause the Palestinian suffering.

It would seem that this self induced suffering is the main reason that so many in the west are upset.

A moral question. Is it ok to kill someone else's kids because that person or group presents a threat to yours ?

Of course. Stand your ground. If one doesn't want trouble don't cause trouble; easy isn't it.

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If they stuck to valid targets and left the women, kids and hospitals out of it I don't think anyone here would have an issue.

The thing is what is a valid target?

If a weapon is fired and detected by Counter-battery radar and the Israelis respond with immediate Artillery fire, hoping to catch the firing party still in location. Is that not justifiable?


Israeli Shilem counter-battery radar

So the problem in this scenario is, where was the original weapon fired, because Artillery fire is not absolutely accurate. Getting the return fire to land within 100m at a range of 15km, assuming weather data is recent, is pretty good. An artillery shell will damage all soft skinned targets within ~50m. (everyone on a football field)

So if the originator fires within say 200 m of some women and children or a hospital, school, shops or a house, then unfortunately innocents are going to amongst the casualties.

If they stuck to valid targets and left the women, kids and hospitals out of it I don't think anyone here would have an issue.

So rocket launchers in schools and hospitals aren't valid targets. Got it.

The whole scenario is stupid and pointless.

Yes. It is religion after all.

Oh. you do remember when Hamas threatened reporters who showed pictures of buildings with the smoke trails of rocket launches? Why? Because it let Israel do precision targeting and limit collateral damage (which isn't good for propaganda).
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/8076.htm

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If they stuck to valid targets and left the women, kids and hospitals out of it I don't think anyone here would have an issue.

The thing is what is a valid target?

If a weapon is fired and detected by Counter-battery radar and the Israelis respond with immediate Artillery fire, hoping to catch the firing party still in location. Is that not justifiable?


Israeli Shilem counter-battery radar

So the problem in this scenario is, where was the original weapon fired, because Artillery fire is not absolutely accurate. Getting the return fire to land within 100m at a range of 15km, assuming weather data is recent, is pretty good. An artillery shell will damage all soft skinned targets within ~50m. (everyone on a football field)

So if the originator fires within say 200 m of some women and children or a hospital, school, shops or a house, then unfortunately innocents are going to amongst the casualties.

Yep, hugely immoral. You are firing a weapon you know is inaccurate in a densely populated urban environment. You do not get to claim moral high ground when you are deliberately firing weapons with a bigger chance to hit civilians than the guys you really want to nail.

Look, even though Israel claims its all about stopping Hamas, its strategy and tactics tell us a different story. The overall strategy in general only strengthens Hamas and justifies their actions in the eyes of a lot of Palestinians. An economically depressed zone under constant fire where there isn't enough of almost everything is fertile ground for extremism. And tactically, if you got an accuracy rate of what? 20%? I question whether you were actually aiming for Hamas. And, they get every opportunity to move away every time you warn the civilians of an imminent strike.

In the end, Hamas cannot be defeated through the use of traditional military means. At least, not without committing large scale genocide within the Gaza strip. This whole conflict can only and must be solved through non violent means.

So what do you do then? Don't forget, responding to weapons fired at you is legal.

Let them continue firing their weapons, which is a war crime, at your civilians?

Be realistic, if the IDF did nothing, what would be the response within Israel?

I agree the only way is by peaceful means, but the first people who MUST put down their arms are the Palestinians. And the last cease fire showed they are incapable of doing that.

Get realistic, at the moment your way is only going to increase the bloodshed on the Israeli side.

Israel is the school yard bully. Friends with all the cool kids who just stand around and watch it beat up on the smallest kid around. The small kid can fight back and sometimes goes on the attack but by and large it is ineffective.

I'm not religious and my country has no unsolvable territory disputes or sworn enemies so I can't begin to comprehend the cycle of killing. Nor do I want to try. Nor do I have time to be bothered by it.

So far as I care, speed things up by putting mediated peace talks in action. Deadline enforceable by nuclear encouragement - either they'll find a way to live together there they'll find they're no longer living anywhere.

Also, if you want to point out that this is not a viable solution, I'd argue that neither is yours.

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Kolch - Crunching for the BOINC@Australia team since July 2004.
Search for your own intelligence...