[There are always persons, on both side, that wish...

And use the ballot box ...

But until the Leader's of The PLO/Hamas state Israel has the right to exist: Israel's enemy's MUST be considered guilty of prolonging the killing.

If you poke a stick at someone who you know will tear you head off if you poke them, is that a suicide wish? Is this the cult of the 72? Is it a version of Heaven's Gate all over again?

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[There are always persons, on both side, that wish...

And use the ballot box ...

But until the Leader's of The PLO/Hamas state Israel has the right to exist: Israel's enemy's MUST be considered guilty of prolonging the killing.

If you poke a stick at someone who you know will tear you head off if you poke them, is that a suicide wish? Is this the cult of the 72? Is it a version of Heaven's Gate all over again?

I would classify that as suicide by stupidity.
Do I think Israel is totaly blameless? No I do not. But I do think some of the surrounding countries are guilty of subversive actions helping out Hamas.

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[/quote]

Old James

FACT, if Gaza accept Egypt's cease fire proposal this would not have happened. Whoever is firing the rockets into Israel has an agenda and it isn't the safety of kids on the beach. There are some sick puppies over there.

There have been plenty of times where Hamas stuck to the cease fire agreements and it was Israel that started firing the first shots.

Link?

here

here

here is a more mainstream report

here

This, anti Israeli rant is TOTALLY absurd.

Solution, agreed by Israel, over the years: TWO States. Israel and Palestine. Perhaps never to be friends. Perhaps something like a Divorced Couple.

Why will the Palestinians/Hamas (they are now allied) not accept this concept, and all they do is just call for the destruction of Israel?

FIRST step to the long process toward peace: Accept the existence of Israel, by their enemy's. The ball IS NOT in Israel's Court.

Question: Does Israel have a right to exist? Those responding NO. Please explain.

For one, Israel does not accept the two state solution itself. So, they can't even agree on that.

http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Ministers-reject-anti-annexation-bills-337179

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2013/July/Netanyahus-Party-Rejects-Two-States/

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/israel-rejects-usled-negotiations-twostate-solution-has-no-validity-28473092.html

Even if the concept of a two state solution is accepted by Israel, there is still the issue of the borders. The Palestinians want to use the 1967 borders which Israel rejects since it has moved a substantial part of its population into the other side of that border.

So why do the Palestinians reject the two state solution? Well for now they have been rejecting it because its not a good deal for them. They lose more territory and it would heavily favor Israel. They don't think thats fair and I can't blame them for thinking that.

And its just Hamas that calls for the destruction of Israel. Abbas and his party do not. The problem is that Hamas controls the Gaza strip and Abbas has no control over them.

Finally, whether the actions of Hamas are acceptable is an irrelevant question. Of course they are not acceptable and there can be no deal with a group that fundamentally rejects the existence of Israel. However, that does not give Israel a blank cheque to do what it wants. Israels actions must also be scrutinized and currently Israeli actions do not hold up well under scrutiny. Its breaching various international treaties that it has signed, it is blatantly violating human rights and one could even argue that war crimes are being committed. Israel, like Hamas, MUST be held to account if peace is ever going to get a chance.

And this is another point of contention which makes the situation of the Palestinians difficult. They clearly see that Israel IS NEVER held to any form of account. UN statements that are deemed critical of Israel are either toned down or rejected, the US vetoes everything that is even slightly critical or unwanted by Israel, investigations are stonewalled, their eventual findings are rejected or ignored and the Zionist lobby all around the world silences critics by calling them Anti-Semites and piling them with Neo-Nazis and holocaust deniers. So, it should come as no surprise that the Palestinians hold very little trust in the international community because they clearly see they are extremely biased towards Israel.

FACT, if Gaza accept Egypt's cease fire proposal this would not have happened. Whoever is firing the rockets into Israel has an agenda and it isn't the safety of kids on the beach. There are some sick puppies over there.

There have been plenty of times where Hamas stuck to the cease fire agreements and it was Israel that started firing the first shots.

Link?

here

here

here is a more mainstream report

here

Mainstream? A YouTube blog is NOT mainstream. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. The other two are tripe and not worthy of comment.

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Mainstream? A YouTube blog is NOT mainstream. I don't know weather to laugh or cry. The other two are tripe and not worthy of comment.

Youtube isn't, but the section is from CNN, which is mainstream media.

And sure, just ignore the evidence that doesn't suit with your convictions.

PLO/Hamas MUST ACCEPT ISRAEL'S EXISTANCE!!!

Agreed.

But this is for the long term peace process. In the short term, in order to facilitate that peace process and convince the Palestinians that either Hamas has to go and/or that Israel has the right to exist, things need to change on the ground. And Israel is the only one who can effectively do that. They have stop the blockade, stop building settlements on Palestinian territory, police their own militant citizens better and stop with the brute force methods of fighting Hamas.

Are you referring to yourself?

I've never claimed that Hamas is the good party here or that they never violated any cease fire agreements.

Youtube isn't, but the section is from CNN, which is mainstream media.

CNN talking heads are NOT mainstream any more than Rush Limbaugh is. This is truly sad if you are serious. I do hope you are just having sport with Batter Up.

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There are no Main Stream (read legitimate) New Organizations anymore, if there ever was.

That YouTube blog was NOT CNN it was many clips spliced together to further someone's agenda.

The three networks ABC, CBS and NBC do the best job for their 1/2 hour evening news of being journalists. Dan Rather getting fired for not checking his FACTS is still fresh in their minds. B.S. doesn't fly for those with ears to hear and eyes to see. Though I'm not that interested in what two insignificant countries do.

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There are no Main Stream (read legitimate) New Organizations anymore, if there ever was.

That YouTube blog was NOT CNN it was many clips spliced together to further someone's agenda.

No it wasn't. It was just a clip of a CNN show.

There are no Main Stream (read legitimate) New Organizations anymore, if there ever was.

That YouTube blog was NOT CNN it was many clips spliced together to further someone's agenda.

No it wasn't. It was just a clip of a CNN show.

Really? Even the graphics? It mostly was some guy from Gaza saying Israel did it. Next they will show an Israeli say no we didn't.

Where are the independent FACTS or don't we let facts get in the way of agendas on this supposed forum. Or is it that some love the back and forth no matter the topic? It would be funny if so many lurkers didn't take us seriously.

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Does The PLO/Hamas accept the existence of Israel?

You are confusing day-to-day tactical responses, with the Foundational Problem:

The PLO/Hamas want the destruction of the Israeli State. Until they renounce this: There can never be true steps towards peace.

The first step towards Peace is REALLY in The PLO/Hamas Court. Not Israel.

PLO/Hamas MUST ACCEPT ISRAEL'S EXISTANCE!!!

You keep saying this as if it is the only thing going on here. Stop banging that drum and you might hear some of what Israel is doing to make this situation worse.

Israel needs to accept Palestine's existence.
That means they need to stop the inhumane blockade.
They need to stop deliberately targeting children.
They need to stop detaining people without trial.
They need to stop settling Palestinian land.

Sayed Kashua: why I have to leave Israel

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Reality Internet Personality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hedges

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hedges

His newspaper, The New York Times, criticized his statements and issued him a formal reprimand for "public remarks that could undermine public trust in the paper's impartiality."

OMG when the New York Times says Hedges is full of B.S. that is as low as one can get.

Hedges.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hedges

It seems he is right on some things and not on others. He he not wrong on this particular thing and there are plenty of others who back up what he says.

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Reality Internet Personality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hedges

It seems he is right on some things and not on others. He he not wrong on this particular thing and there are plenty of others who back up what he says.

It is up to each to judge if he has any reliability. Absent independent sources ...

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Rabbis for peace - Trafalgar Square, London

That would have been a more powerful photo had the guy 3rd from right had his poster as large as the others, or even larger.

I'm not for one side or the other. However, what disgusts me is the furore that current & recent events raised in the media.

Back in the 70's & 80's I spent a total of 4 months in Israel & on one of those visits, my girlfriend's family were involved in rebuilding a kibbutz after an unprovoked attack. I accompanied them & over the next couple of weeks, my holiday was spent driving supplies to that kibbutz.

That first day I arrived, I saw sights that are still with me today. Where were the TV cameras? Where were the press photographers & reporters? Seeing unarmed women & children hit by multiple rounds...

As individuals, we cannot do anything so look to those who lead to sort the mess out. However, what do we see?

Lip service, political soundbytes or threats of sanctions. Sanctions never affect those at the top, in fact they only hurt those at the bottom.

As for the UN? Just a toothless lion!

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Rabbis for peace - Trafalgar Square, London

NETUREI KARTA knows there cannot be an Israeli until it is established by the Messiah.

Rev. Batter Up works closely with Chief Rabbi Mordecai Schlomo to get this truth out.

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