I find it hard to stomach that the militarys of all nations cant use more effective bullets. But the use of landmines, grenades, artillery, cluster bombs, or what ever can make limbs sever or guts spill out are OK. What the hell is the differance in shooting a guy trying to kill you 8 times when a better bullet could have done the job in one or two.

Actually a lot of those weapons are illegal and banned. Its just that the US and other major military powers generally have a problem with signing treaties that limit what kind of weapons they can use.

Guess when YOUR family is attacked by The Jihadists: You would want your Defending Military to use Humane Weapons?

Yes I would want them to use humane weapons. And I most certainly wouldn't want them to use weapons that pose a major danger to people after the war is over.

Another white Louisiana cop resigns after being caught out for sending text messages to his colleagues urging them to “pull a Ferguson” on black residents.

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/louisiana-cop-resigns-after-urging-colleagues-to-pull-a-ferguson-on-african-monkeys/story-fnh81jut-1227049820574

I wonder how many of these more of these racist idiotic cops will surface over there. :-(

Cheers.

I wonder how many of these more of these racist idiotic cops will surface over there. :-(

Cheers.

The issue is like that of rattle snakes and natural selection. It used to be that most shook their rattles so you could find them, so hunters slaughtered them. They didn't find the ones that kept quiet, those multiplied and passed on the stay quiet gene.

There are tons of racist cops in America. With the rate of African-Americans serving prison time, they make up a very large amount of the persons the cops see as bad guys. It would be very hard seeing that day in and out for years to not form an opinion about African-Americans and a propensity to crime.

I won't go chicken and egg on this here. Open another thread if you want to discuss that.

---

There are tons of racist cops in America. With the rate of African-Americans serving prison time,

Most of the violent street crimes, are committed by inner city Black Males, against other Black People.

Those committing Violent Crimes, and Murder against Black People, shouldn't be in Prison?

The KKK couldn't have said it better.

I didn't think I needed to conduct another lesson in basic economics here, even though this class is not taught in any established school of learning that I know of, but let's take a look at this. Yes, there are far too many violent crimes committed by inner city blacks against other blacks, this I will not contradict. And we of the community are attempting to correct this, but it is very hard to break this cycle.

Now, let's change the point of view just a little bit. Remember I said in another thread about economics, well here it pops up its ugly head yet again only coupled with the criminalization of the African-American. This criminalization began during the slavery era as another way to keep blacks in check and has progressed through the years, an example being a young man name Emmett Till, and all he was accused of was smiling at a white woman. Or we could bring back Greenwood Oklahoma, the richest black community - the black wall street, in the country at the beginning of the 20th century destroyed because of a questionable charge of a young black man assaulting a white woman. Now if you can successfully class a segment of people as being criminals from birth to grave there is a gigantic economic value to it, as it limits those same people, except for a very small fortunate few, to low income jobs, neighborhoods, etc. The very basic idea of self-worth in oneself is then so greatly diminished that it can become almost nonexistent in the natural order of things; and a new self-worth is formed according to the restraints being placed on one's self. In order to survive in these locals, crime escalates and the birth-prison-death progression is established. Now, extend this concept for a couple of hundred of years and you have an environment, that tends to lend to crime, that exists.

Since, the reconstruction era, even though the African-American is legally free according the federal government, economics has became a very important factor in keeping them in their place. Deny them the opportunity to advance in an equable way and you enforce the concept of a lower class citizen. Inner city black neighborhoods are essentially nothing but ghettos, some better than others, but still ghettos. Local governments generally tend to spend less in these neighborhoods, schools especially. The one thing that local governments will increase are police districts/ stations.

Lets look at schools in these neighborhoods. Usually the younger and less experienced teachers are sent to these schools, thus most students do not get a quality substantive education. A quality substantive education is the key to get out of these neighborhoods, as it leads to higher education. This, in itself creates another problem because of the cost of this higher education, and unless you are able to get a grant or your family is in a position to secure a loan, you are stuck in the neighborhood; unless you are fortunate enough to be accepted into the military and get a higher education via it. Lower quality of education, means lower paying jobs. This lower state of education of minorities is especially prevalent in the south, as you have the lowest graduation rate in the country; even though there are some great higher education institutions there. A lot of people in these neighborhoods, especially the younger ones, can make more money, illegally, in crime (drugs, etc.) then they can with, legal/respectable, jobs. Those who choose this branch of attempting to make a living, and it may not always be a cognitive choice, enter an environment of violence to survive, and since the ratio of minorities is much greater then whites in these neighborhoods, you have a greater amount of black-on-black crime; and thus the concept of criminalization deepens. A lot of people in these neighborhoods get into a drug habit to escape the lowly reality of every day life, committing further crimes to support their habit; thus criminalization deepens even further. When blacks are able to get respectable jobs, for the most part they are low-income - economics.

With the criminalization concept now fully locked in place, we now turn to the amount of African-Americans in prison. If anyone has been listening/watching/reading the news recently, you will see that the ratio of African-Americans is extremely exorbitant to any other people and is greatly exasperating. Lets start with the schools, especially those who have taken a zero-tolerance attitude. Studies have shown that when African-Americans and whites commit the same offense, the white student is most likely given a slap on the wrist whereas the African-American student gets suspended or expelled for the exact same offense. Now before someone hollers about other minorities being treated the same, these same studies also show that African-Americans are still penalized at a greater rate. This again affects that student's self esteem and could very well affect how that student progresses through the rest of his school life and beyond. Unless the student's records are sealed, and most are not, it also effects that student's possibility of getting a higher education as those institutions frown on students having suspensions/expulsions on their record and tend not to accept them. So in order to survive, unless your very lucky, its either low-paying jobs or crime - economics.

Now keeping in mind that a black student will get a greater/stiffer penalty for the same offense as a white student and add the concept of criminalization, extend that to a larger population of all ages for all, if not most, offenses and you have a much larger black population in prison than white. More blacks in prison means less blacks in the respectable job market - economics.

The comment above about the three cousins (Klu, Klux, and Klan) really have nothing to do with the rest of the quotes, other than that it was/is a terrorist organization geared to keep the upward progress of a people from advancing - economics.

As far as there are tons of racist cops here - unfortunately, this is all too true. But the bright side of this is that occurrence of violence committed by these people are starting to diminish due to new technology, namely the body camera. More study is needed, but studies have already shown that it deters them from committing violence in the first place. It protects the good cops from bad law suits and places bad cops on notice. Case in point, even though the Michael Brown incident is still being investigated, and I'm not advocating in any way that Officer Wilson is racist, the local police are now wearing them. If he had been wearing one at the time, then we would have a better picture of what happened. And the criminalization of Michael Brown probably would not have happened. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/05/ferguson-chief-lied-about-michael-brown-tape_n_5773420.html?utm_hp_ref=black-voices&ir=Black%20Voices & http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/04/darren-wilson-injury-photo-ferguson_n_5768510.html?utm_hp_ref=black-voices

---

I don't buy computers, I build them!!

Cliff,

I find your description of the Ghetto very much on target. But I wonder why the Barrio is different. For those that have forgotten I work in Boyle Heights / East Los Angeles, a/k/a Little TJ. What I see there is a small percentage of the youth getting into gangs and drugs. I actually see the neighborhood gentrifying. The kids are in school. The residents have jobs.

I wonder what is different? I can think of one thing instantly. The Latino's are nearly all Roman Catholic. Many of the children attend private Catholic schools, not public school. Of course that takes money which has to come from somewhere. The second thing is a fraction of the population is undocumented. Undocumented persons don't qualify for some of the aid programs citizens do. Could these people be more motivated because they can't get a hand out? Also that undocumented fraction came to the USA to work so they are motivated; they are willing to take unpleasant jobs for minimum wage.

Is it the attitude of the oppressor? Is it the attitude of the oppressed? Is it some other factor? Why is the Barrio improving and the Ghetto becoming worse?

---

Here's another example of the criminalization of a black man, and he's a former police officer. http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/population-2043/i-was-still-just-a-black-man-20140905

Another witness comes forward http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/06/michael-brown-shooting-wi_n_5776906.html

Here's how Funny or Die sees the Ferguson police http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/06/funny-or-die-cops-ferguson-militarized-police_n_5777074.html sad, but closer to the truth than most realize.

---

I don't buy computers, I build them!!

Cliff,

I find your description of the Ghetto very much on target. But I wonder why the Barrio is different. For those that have forgotten I work in Boyle Heights / East Los Angeles, a/k/a Little TJ. What I see there is a small percentage of the youth getting into gangs and drugs. I actually see the neighborhood gentrifying. The kids are in school. The residents have jobs.

I wonder what is different? I can think of one thing instantly. The Latino's are nearly all Roman Catholic. Many of the children attend private Catholic schools, not public school. Of course that takes money which has to come from somewhere. The second thing is a fraction of the population is undocumented. Undocumented persons don't qualify for some of the aid programs citizens do. Could these people be more motivated because they can't get a hand out? Also that undocumented fraction came to the USA to work so they are motivated; they are willing to take unpleasant jobs for minimum wage.

Is it the attitude of the oppressor? Is it the attitude of the oppressed? Is it some other factor? Why is the Barrio improving and the Ghetto becoming worse?

Barrios and ghettos are the same, just a difference in ethnic population. As I stated before some are better than others. Used to live in LA myself many moons ago not far from the LA Memorial Coliseum, so I'll ask you two questions - Do you know what gentrification is? The other question - is this happening in other neighborhoods, say like South Central?

Gentrification occurs when real estate agents move into an area and buy up everything in sight for little next to nothing. They then either gut/renovate the properties or tear down and build new, and place a high enough price on them that the locals can't afford to either rent or buy them - economics. This then forces the prices up on the rest of the properties forcing out others because they can't afford them any more. Landlords seeing an opportunity to get more money for their rentals, both housing and businesses, raise their prices - economics. If the renters can't afford the higher prices, they have no option but to move. Real estate taxes go up sometimes forcing property owners out, thus more vacant properties for sale - economics. This is happening to housing and businesses alike. Watch the ratio of the population in the next few years.

Gentrification is happening all over the country and there is nothing we can do about it. With it comes better teachers and the educational level increases, thus better or more jobs - economics. How many of the undocumented citizens there have taxes taken out of their pay, better yet how many of them are being paid under the table? If an employer doesn't have to be bothered about income taxes, who do you think he/she will go to - an undocumented Latino or an African-American that knows he has to pay taxes - economics? It's not so much a matter of motivation, it's the opportunity to get what few jobs are available. I don't believe that religion has anything to do with it either, as the black community has a very robust religious community. The black community also has a great desire to have meaningful sustainable jobs, but insert the criminalization aspect into the mix and many are ineligible for said jobs - economics.

The area that I live in Philly was originally an all white Jewish neighborhood, but as more middle income blacks moved into the area they left and is now mixed. Because the properties have been kept up and improved, whites are trying awfully hard to move back and we are generally not selling - economics. Because gentrification is happening is several neighborhoods here, the city decided that a number of neighborhoods have been under declared tax wise, so it raised the property tax rate citywide - economics. When we bought our house 34 years ago it had a taxable worth of 40k, now that worth is almost 250k - economics.

As any minority population increases its wealth and moves out of the old neighborhoods to better ones or to the suburbs, it decreases the tax base and further depressing the old neighborhood - economics. One of the best reasons for this movement is better schools - economics. As far as the suburbs are concerned, there is a white flight back to the cities mostly via gentrification - economics. It used to be that Harlem was the center of the African-American community in New York City. Over time with the loss of jobs, etc. it became a depressed neighborhood. Gentrification is slowly turning Harlem white and there are some areas of the city, Brooklyn for example, that its happening too also - economics.

You mentioned handouts as if the black/brown communities are the greatest users of them. Lets put that myth to bed right now. Statistics have proven that it's not the black/brown communities that receives the majority of these handouts, i.e. food stamps, welfare, etc.; it's the white community - do the research. The far right of politics has spread this myth in order to keep up the vilification of the black/brown communities, thus ignoring what is happening in their own back yard.

---

I don't buy computers, I build them!!

I am very much aware of what gentrification is. However in that Barrio, it isn't white developers buying up the property, it is Latino developers. A couple I know were undocumented until the original 1986 amnesty program.

Since you lived in LA, then you would know it was originally a mixed Oriental Jewish neighborhood before it became Mexican. Now it is mixed Guatemalan, Salvadorian and Mexican. The white developers are still building Section 8 so it has not turned the corner in their eyes.

As to handouts http://www.forbes.com/sites/bethhoffman/2013/09/23/who-receives-food-stamps-and-why-it-is-critical-to-continue-their-support/ your factoid was not adjusted for differences in population. And look at the Latino segments on the pie chart.

As to other neighborhoods, the industrial area to the east of little Tokyo, but west of the LA River is gentrifying. As to "South Central" do you mean "South Los Angeles" or "Historic South Central" http://maps.latimes.com/neighborhoods/region/south-la/ Since you left there has been a shift to more Latino in much of the city.

---

Now there are Ku Klux Klan recruitment flyers circulating in New York referencing the shooting of black teenager Michael Brown by white police officer Darren Wilson and containing plenty of racist messages. :-(

http://www.news.com.au/world/ku-klux-klan-recruitment-flyers-reportedly-found-in-new-york-said-to-include-references-to-michael-brown-shooting/story-fndir2ev-1227052181783

Part of the thread title is "Full force of the law". Just who gets to make that law? State or Federal or maybe both!

Threat of "big small government"

"What Ferguson shows is that the heart of the problem is, in fact, small government - the cops, prosecutors and their bosses with an inflated sense of their powers. The great and growing threat to liberty in this country comes from states and localities run amok."

So which law is better? State or Federal?

So in other words, SSDD, whether or not it's Local, State or Federal.

Part of the thread title is "Full force of the law". Just who gets to make that law? State or Federal or maybe both!

Threat of "big small government"

"What Ferguson shows is that the heart of the problem is, in fact, small government - the cops, prosecutors and their bosses with an inflated sense of their powers. The great and growing threat to liberty in this country comes from states and localities run amok."

So which law is better? State or Federal?

I must say that Anthony Zurcher's article on the BBC that you linked is one of the screwiest I have ever seen published by the BBC. It is crazy as a bed of moles.

In it, he asks the question:

What if local government, closest to the people, can be the most oppressive?

OF COURSE it *can* be. It was intended that the local governments have the greatest influence on the people's lives. Sirus B, as CLYDE replies in another reply to your post (though maybe in slightly different words) it is also the easiest to get changed.

I have seen (and participated in) local governments (Independent School Districts (ISDs), City, and County) getting changed several times because of their misdeeds. Oh, Zurcher's article incorrectly lumps State Government in with local. It's not.

The one thing uppermost on the mind of an elected politician is to get re-elected, and they will usually do whatever it takes to ensure that happens.

If an agent of Government (in the article's example, the shooting death of Brown by a Ferguson, MO police officer) so angers the majority of the local community that changes need to be made, it is much easier (read cheaper and faster) to get those changes made at the local level than at the state or federal level.

The People of Ferguson, MO's proper response should have been to meet with their elected representatives in Ferguson, namely the Mayor and City Council members and express their grievances.

People to Mayor and City Council: The police here are out of control, fix it.
Mayor and City Council to old Police Chief: You are fired.
Mayor and City Council to new Police Chief: Fix it.

If not, then the People vote the Mayor and City Council out and replace them in the next election. This is representative democracy in action.

In some jurisdictions, there might be the possibility of a Recall Election to replace the Mayor and City Council sooner. But I am not sure if this applies to Ferguson, MO.

Replacing the Mayor and City Council a time or two will highly motivate their replacements to, I dunno, actually LISTEN to and ACT on what the People have to say.

If the situation is so dire as to require more immediate remedy, the local people can always appeal to the State Government (if State laws are being broken) or even the Federal Government (if Federal Laws are being broken) for assistance.

It is much easier/cheaper/faster to get redress of grievances on the local level than it is on either the State or Federal level. Case in point, the Federal Level:

Even IF you can get your Representative in the US House on your side AND both of your State's Senators on your side, there are still 434 OTHER House members and 98 other Senators to go. Voters in non-affected areas tend to be somewhat apathetic, and if they bother to vote will most likely vote for the status quo.

If you want to go to Court (the Judicial System) for redress, I hope you have enough money available to hire some GOOD lawyers for the long-term court battles.

Nope, it is MUCH easier/cheaper/quicker to handle things like an out-of-control police department on the purely local level than it is to go up the 'food-chain'.

Yes, it is easier for Local Government to 'oppress' citizens and for State or Federal Government to do so because the citizen's primary interaction with Government is at the Local level. But it is much easier to do something about it at the local level.

Look at it this way (using my State of Texas as an example):

There are 254 Counties in Texas.
Each County in Texas (except Loving County -- Population 87) has at LEAST one incorporated City in it -- most have several.
Texas is only one of 50 States in the USA.

It is relatively easy to effect change in a city or ISD.
It is a bit harder to effect change in a county.
Effecting change Statewide is a lot harder.
Effecting change in the entire USA is very difficult indeed.

From the Article:

"What all this means, perhaps, is that, as a polity, we're unhealthily obsessed with the federal government”

Scott Galupo The American Conservative

Very VERY true!

This may be true of many, perhaps most, US Citizens, but it isn't true of me. I pay CLOSE attention to the State and Local politics, as well as Federal, and vote accordingly in every election possible. If more people did so, our problems would be smaller.

I get just as pi**ed off about misdeeds at the city level of Government as I do about misdeeds at the Federal level of Government. I don't often post about them here, but then the City in which I currently live has a population under 2000. Perhaps it is easier to keep up with local issues here than in some big cities I have previously lived in, but then I am related to maybe 10% of the people in town, and personally know almost all the rest. I have 3 current issues with City Government, and if I can not get a satisfactory response on them (lack of maintenance and repair on the playground equipment at the City Park (so my kids will have somewhere nice (and safe!) to play)), City Street repair (the potholes are bad), and Garbage Collection (they recently cut it from 2 days a week down to 1 -- a week out in the hot Texas sun, and the garbage can gets quite... nasty... from the garbage in it), I am considering running for City Council myself. That alone would likely convince them to see reason.

Yes, paying close attention to Local Politics is MORE important than paying close attention to Federal Politics, in my opinion, because Local Government more directly affects you than Federal Government. Ignore it at your peril.

Other points in the article:

1. Professional regulation: that is a function of the State governments, which he incorrectly lumps in with the Local governments in his article.

2. Zoning (again, it is a function of the Local Government) same as the police. Make your concerns known to the elected officials, and if they are not heeded then fix things at the ballot box next election.

3. ?Building Codes? (did he include this with Zoning?? A function of non-local entities to make up, but local Governments to enforce). No big deal.

4. Fees and Fines: Local Governments need money to operate and since the bulk of the money available for taxes is collected at the Federal Level, and most of the rest collected at the State Level, Local Governments are pretty much left with jack-diddly-squat. Local Government MUST raise money through fines and fees to ensure its continued operation. A fix? Well, State Governments get about the right amount now, but the Federal and the Local tax burdens need to be swapped. This would necessitate, of course, drastically slashing the Federal expenditures.

4A. Civil Forfeiture. I agree that this practice is wrong... Wrong as H**L. But, the article incorrectly implies that only the local Governments engage in the practice. State and Federal Governments do it as much as if not more than Local Governments. I think one State had recently started the practice when the Federal Government adopted it back in 1970 with the RICO Act (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act -- section 901(a) of the Organized Crime Control Act of 1970 (Pub.L. 91–452, 84 Stat. 922) Title 18 of the United States Code, 18 U.S.C. § 1961–1968.

Once the Federal Government started it, many (though not all) states followed suit. Then the concept of Civil Forfeiture got expanded and finally grew into the monster it is today. Oh, and a number of other nations around the world have joined in as well.

I HIGHLY and VIGOROUSLY disagree with the concept of the Government seizing assets just because they don't like you without a Guilty Verdict in a Criminal Court, or Criminal Charges even being filed. I have no problem with asset seizure after a guilty verdict, but without one it is a violation of our most important legal doctrines. THIS and THIS ALONE of everything in that article actually IS OPPRESSION by Government, and it happens at ALL levels, not just local.

Yep, the article be screwy. That article isn't even news, but is just an op-ed piece.

Good post MK.

The People of Ferguson, MO's proper response should have been to meet with their elected representatives in Ferguson, namely the Mayor and City Council members and express their grievances.

People to Mayor and City Council: The police here are out of control, fix it.
Mayor and City Council to old Police Chief: You are fired.
Mayor and City Council to new Police Chief: Fix it.

If not, then the People vote the Mayor and City Council out and replace them in the next election. This is representative democracy in action.

Quite true, but & it's a big but, that is no proof that the same won't happen again.

Quite true, but & it's a big but, that is no proof that the same won't happen again.

It will. It is a loop. All you can hope is that the loop takes a long time.

Or as has been said, "History repeats itself."

---

Good post MK.

The People of Ferguson, MO's proper response should have been to meet with their elected representatives in Ferguson, namely the Mayor and City Council members and express their grievances.

People to Mayor and City Council: The police here are out of control, fix it.
Mayor and City Council to old Police Chief: You are fired.
Mayor and City Council to new Police Chief: Fix it.

If not, then the People vote the Mayor and City Council out and replace them in the next election. This is representative democracy in action.

Quite true, but & it's a big but, that is no proof that the same won't happen again.

Thank you, and your concern is quite valid. Sadly it happens over and over again.

That is why:

Joe Bob Briggs (former drive-in movie critic for the Ft. Worth Star-Telegram newspaper wrote:

The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance. Remember, it CAN happen here!

Even when you score a victory against naughty Government, you can not relax and rest on your laurels. By and large, most politicians are corrupt. Even if not so when they are elected, they soon become so.

By and large, most politicians are corrupt. Even if not so when they are elected, they soon become so.

Waning to run for office should be a disqualifying factor.

---

Back to Ferguson with new video claims.

http://www.news.com.au/world/ferguson-shooting-victim-michael-brown-had-hands-in-air-new-video-claims/story-fndir2ev-1227057344978

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/10/us/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-witnesses/index.html

Back to Ferguson with new video claims.

http://www.news.com.au/world/ferguson-shooting-victim-michael-brown-had-hands-in-air-new-video-claims/story-fndir2ev-1227057344978

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/10/us/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-witnesses/index.html

Yah it's a war of us aginst them and the percentage of them keeps going up.

---

Back to Ferguson with new video claims.

http://www.news.com.au/world/ferguson-shooting-victim-michael-brown-had-hands-in-air-new-video-claims/story-fndir2ev-1227057344978

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/10/us/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-witnesses/index.html

Wiggo you're getting slow in you old age, I first posted about this on the 7th. CNN and others are reporting it as new video, but they are about 3-4 days late. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/06/michael-brown-shooting-wi_n_5776906.html

Here's what the family's lawyer is saying about the tape. http://entertainment.verizon.com/news/read/article/the_associated_press-ferguson_video_shows_witness_raising_hands_in_air-ap

---

I don't buy computers, I build them!!