I hope that this cop gets to feel the full force of the law.

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Message 1560435 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 4:47:54 UTC - in response to Message 1560428.  

Plus the training of police recruits where they are taught to shoot to kill first and ask questions later needs subjecting to very heavy scrutiny.

T.A.

Could you please show us that attribution.

Very much understand that perception. Here in LA with the LAPPL it is de facto, but not de jure. As protection of the officer is paramount over all other things, only in the most egregious circumstances (confession or multiple camera angles with synced audio) is use of deadly force ever prosecuted and then usually only a week on the beach.
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Message 1560456 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 6:07:46 UTC

Meant to stick this on the bottom of one of my previous posts but got sidetracked.

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Message 1560476 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 8:19:14 UTC

Cell Phone Video Emerges That Refutes St. Louis Cops Version of Shooting

It's called suicide by cop. It's very easy if you're a black man and you ask to be shot.

It's still cold blooded murder.

Disturbing that the report from the police chief doesn't match up with the video.
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Message 1560485 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 8:37:15 UTC - in response to Message 1560476.  

Jesus! There's no way that was 3/4 feet & 10 shots?

"Officers claimed that they were in fear of their lives as Powell charged at them with a knife."

Watching the video several times & replayed where the first shot was fired. I can't see the guys arms raised in an attacking position , they were by his side.

As the guy who took the video said "Why didn't they user Tasers?"
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Message 1560514 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 9:50:38 UTC - in response to Message 1560476.  

Cell Phone Video Emerges That Refutes St. Louis Cops Version of Shooting

It's called suicide by cop. It's very easy if you're a black man and you ask to be shot.

It's still cold blooded murder.

Disturbing that the report from the police chief doesn't match up with the video.

Not being nasty, but don't people look to see what has already been posted.
I posted that cell phone recording yesterday at about 07:00 UTC.
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Message 1560533 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 11:21:13 UTC - in response to Message 1560514.  

Sorry WK, must have missed it.
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Message 1560580 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 14:28:11 UTC - in response to Message 1560378.  

Cliff...
Most of what I will attempt to say will be in broad strokes, but I think you will get the general idea.

That is very understandable, in a broader context.

What is being discussed is about An Individual, who may be innocent of any racism. Not speaking of any criminal charges.

To vilify anyone, since he happens to be Black/Asian/White is Bigotry.

You might be surprised that I loved your entire post, and agreed with MOST.


Since these were/are all real life examples of the power/abuse of authority of one people over another, all based on economics btw, which part/parts do you not agree to?

Sadly, even with my broad dissertation, the real story is still being missed. It is about a unarmed young black man being killed by a person of authority, specifically a police officer. It is a story that happens many times a year, after year, after year. The fact that the preponderance of reports of those doing the killing are of one race and those dying of another, is in fact secondary. I'm quite sure that there may have been shootings of this type perpetrated by black police officers, but statistics have so far not borne that out, maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. The greater majority of the shooters either not being indicted or not being in court to answer for their actions, and not serving time for these actions greatly exacerbates the tension that one community has with another, namely the black community and the law enforcement community. Another sad fact is that it is not always the police that are doing this and the victim is not always young men.

Race, unfortunately will always be part of the picture because of the nature and the reality of real time life. We all discriminate against something, which is really nothing more but a dislike of something or someone, be we black white, purple, or green. The level/intensity of discrimination, will always play a part in our lives whether we like it or not.

In all of these incidents, the police officer is always assumed to be right and the young man always to be wrong, no matter what the circumstances that instigated the incident in the first place are. A very wise instructor once told me and I quote "assumption is the mother of all fu*&&%ups".

There are two major views of what has/is happened/happening in Ferguson and across the country. One is http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/18/michael-brown-jesse-williams-cnn_n_5689345.html and the other is http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/21/kevin-sorbo-ferguson-animals-losers_n_5697647.html. I'll let you decide. A previous post by @Dead, unfortunately shows the view of the Tea/Republican party. If you will notice that I switched the party name because to Tea party faction has basically taken over the party.

As much as I hope and pray that it doesn't happen, if the abuse of authority and militarization of said police community continues unabated, along with all of the other injustices, perceived or not, there will be an eruption that will consume this country. People are fed up with it and it may not happen in the near future, but it will happen and, believe me it will not be pretty.

We've all seen all of the outrage from the right on what is happening in Ferguson, but I ask where was the outrage from the right during the Ted Bundy incident, a white man hiding between to J blocks on an overpass, drawing down on a crowd of people below, among them government official from the BLM. I'm quite sure that he didn't have a civilian in his sight picture.

Economics, folks, economics - take it out of the equation and the greater majority of the rest will eventually disappear. I say the majority because there will always be those who will discriminate regardless of the circumstances, and that is because of what they have been taught at home and their social communities.


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Message 1560584 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 14:34:44 UTC - in response to Message 1560577.  

Jesus! There's no way that was 3/4 feet & 10 shots?

"Officers claimed that they were in fear of their lives as Powell charged at them with a knife."

Watching the video several times & replayed where the first shot was fired. I can't see the guys arms raised in an attacking position , they were by his side.

As the guy who took the video said "Why didn't they user Tasers?"

Did they have Tasers? If so, I do have a problem with this. If not, their lives, and other's around them, were really in danger.

The 'Zone of Death' regarding a person with a knife is 20 feet. Meaning, the person has a very good chance of charging and stabbing anyone within 20 feet, before any bullets take 'effect'.

The police should not 'retreat', with innocent people in the vicinity, because that may place them in danger, should he decide to kill anyone. Especially if this was 'Suicide by Cop'.

The REAL threat is a knife in the hand. Doesn't matter, in the Real World, if it is raised, or not.

It was a judgment call, by persons who have no idea what will happen in the next seconds.

Note: I would have used different tactics. Doesn't mean I am correct, because it may have resulted in my death. Who knows? I don't! Nor does anyone else.


Yes, the chief stated in a later news conference that the officers did have Tasers, but sometimes Tasers miss. I agree only on that point, the young man had on what appears to be either a sweat shirt or a hoodie, which would mean that the projectiles may not penetrate enough to come in contact with skin and hold.


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Message 1560589 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 14:42:39 UTC - in response to Message 1560577.  

Jesus! There's no way that was 3/4 feet & 10 shots?

"Officers claimed that they were in fear of their lives as Powell charged at them with a knife."

Watching the video several times & replayed where the first shot was fired. I can't see the guys arms raised in an attacking position , they were by his side.

As the guy who took the video said "Why didn't they user Tasers?"

Did they have Tasers? If so, I do have a problem with this. If not, their lives, and other's around them, were really in danger.

The 'Zone of Death' regarding a person with a knife is 20 feet. Meaning, the person has a very good chance of charging and stabbing anyone within 20 feet, before any bullets take 'effect'.

The police should not 'retreat', with innocent people in the vicinity, because that may place them in danger, should he decide to kill anyone. Especially if this was 'Suicide by Cop'.

The REAL threat is a knife in the hand. Doesn't matter, in the Real World, if it is raised, or not.

It was a judgment call, by persons who have no idea what will happen in the next seconds.

Note: I would have used different tactics. Doesn't mean I am correct, because it may have resulted in my death. Who knows? I don't! Nor does anyone else.


Fair point, but 10 shots? What are you guys using? .22's?
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Message 1560618 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 15:21:26 UTC - in response to Message 1560576.  

Threatened: Means with Death, or serious physical injury. Getting hit once, by a baseball bat in the stomach area, may not kill you, but...


The operative word here is "feels" rather than "threatened". Any person can "feel threatened" even if they are not in any immediate danger (does not only apply to police officers).

However the degree of threat is a judgement call and hard to define post act. "I felt threatened" therefore makes a good "get of of jail" card for an officer involved in an incident of borderline (or worse) legality.

We do see some incidents like this in Oz, the Victorian Police Force has a reputation for being a bit trigger happy, and their victims have included a 16 year old mentally retarded boy and a woman who was hysterical due to a major family tragedy, neither of whom were armed. As in the US all that happened to the officers concerned was a couple weeks off work (on full pay) followed by another couple of weeks on desk duties.

T.A.
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Message 1560636 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 16:19:10 UTC - in response to Message 1560587.  
Last modified: 22 Aug 2014, 16:26:52 UTC

Cliff...

Sadly, even with my broad dissertation, the real story is still being missed. It is about a unarmed young black man being killed by a person of authority, specifically a police officer.

Do agree with your broader point.

However, we must not go down the road of judging each Individual's actions, regarding 'Agreed to' Principals. I believe that is dangerous, and could/will result is very serious consequences to our Protected Individual Rights, in our 'Bill of Rights'.

I would really like to have this conversation, with you, over coffee (beer?). This type of Forum does not lend itself to these type's of discussions.

Clyde, ask yourself if you think the cop would have even spoken to these men in the first place, let alone in a rude way, if they were white? The cop made an assumption that these men were up to no good based on what? He also assumed that however he spoke to them or dealt with them would be acceptable.

As a white woman if a policeman swore at me in the street for no reason I would go and make a complaint and would fully expect something to be done about it. I know that if I were a young black man the situation would be entirely different. A young black man will get pulled over by the police for absolutely no reason on a regular basis. They could be an honour student with two jobs, but they will still be stopped and questioned by the police. I have never, in my life been stopped and questioned by the police in the street. If police stops really are random, how do you explain that?

As a teacher I've taught plenty of black students who I knew for a fact to be lovely hardworking boys who would never dream of breaking the law. I can assure you that their experience with the police is totally different from mine. I can't imagine the sense of injustice that must build up over time for people who do everything right, but are still harassed on regular basis by the people who are supposed to protect them.
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Message 1560639 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 16:22:24 UTC

To WK, sorry missed your previous post. Possibly overlooked due to heading and my disregard of things reported as "police releases". Say a lot for reporting and framing of "news".

If I am honest though I must admit that my most disturbing thoughts post seeing this clip are not that I just watched a person be executed on demand by police but complete disgust at their cold and unfeeling reaction to having done so. Seemed no urgency to call for ambulance, instead they proceed to cuff the ailing if not lifeless perp. Also disturbing is the community's response where it seems somewhat acceptable that a black man be executed by the police force.
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Message 1560649 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 16:31:22 UTC
Last modified: 22 Aug 2014, 16:32:46 UTC

I count about half a threatening action by perp in this clip in that he walked toward police man with a knife in his hand, I count maybe one half-hearted attempt by police man to diffuse situation, I count 9 shots fired by police man in to advancing perp.

I see no compassion by police man in arresting corpse.

This is the story of the militant white police man where you are the target and every perp is a victim in waiting.

[edit]For spelling typo, I've had a beer or two[/edit]
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Message 1560660 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 16:43:28 UTC - in response to Message 1560653.  

Clyde, ask yourself if you think the cop would have even spoken to these men in the first place, let alone in a rude way, if they were white?.

Assuming a White person is raciest. A Black person is Inferior. An Asian is... Is complete bigotry.

Also, ask non-black persons if they have ever been called names by some Black person's. So?

Wondering if the non-Black persons stating Their race is Bigoted: Are only reflecting their own Bigotry.


Attempts to muddy waters are irrelevant. Blatant racism is obvious when witnessed and recorded.
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Message 1560661 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 16:44:40 UTC - in response to Message 1560653.  
Last modified: 22 Aug 2014, 16:46:23 UTC

Clyde, ask yourself if you think the cop would have even spoken to these men in the first place, let alone in a rude way, if they were white?.

Assuming a White person is raciest.

If you are a white person and you are not examining any cultural prejudices you may have inadvertently picked up by being part of the dominant culture, then you may well be racist.

A Black person is Inferior. An Asian is... Is complete bigotry.

Very true. This also includes assuming that any young black man walking down the street may be up to no good. Which seems to be how the police in a lot of places operate.


Also, ask non-black persons if they have ever been called names by some Black person's. So?

I've been called names by lots of people, Clyde. I really can't tell you the break down on races as I wasn't keeping records. (I can however tell you that most of the random abuse I experienced on the streets was because I am female if that helps)

Wondering if the non-Black persons stating Their race is Bigoted: Are only reflecting their own Bigotry.

I don't think you understand what it means to be part of the dominant culture and have special privileges because of that. Are you seriously telling me that you are oblivious to the fact that your life is made a easier because you were born a white male? That is concerning.
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Message 1560672 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 17:01:29 UTC - in response to Message 1560645.  

Fair point, but 10 shots? What are you guys using? .22's?

Guy WALKS up to me saying he had to go to the Hospital because he was shot. Turned out he was shot SEVEN TIMES with a 9mm. He died shortly thereafter.

This is REAL LIFE.


That may be so, but I have seen the effects of bullets hitting a person. now answer me this: -

2 handguns firing from 2 different angles & the speed of the shots, 4 would have been overkill as there is no way a human being can take those hits in that manner & remain standing. Listen to the sounds of those shots...

...they deliberately emptied their guns & it will take some convincing for me to think otherwise


A wounded man with a gun is still highly dangerous, but with a knife & multiple rounds in him? Seriously?
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Message 1560760 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 19:02:32 UTC - in response to Message 1560672.  

Fair point, but 10 shots? What are you guys using? .22's?

Guy WALKS up to me saying he had to go to the Hospital because he was shot. Turned out he was shot SEVEN TIMES with a 9mm. He died shortly thereafter.

This is REAL LIFE.


That may be so, but I have seen the effects of bullets hitting a person. now answer me this: -

2 handguns firing from 2 different angles & the speed of the shots, 4 would have been overkill as there is no way a human being can take those hits in that manner & remain standing. Listen to the sounds of those shots...

...they deliberately emptied their guns & it will take some convincing for me to think otherwise

Emptied? Each of those guns holds how many rounds? They aren't six shooters!

A wounded man with a gun is still highly dangerous, but with a knife & multiple rounds in him? Seriously?

And you know until you search him he doesn't have a gun?

All of you missed the item that should get some attention by the use of force review board. I'll let you think about it for a while.
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Message 1560769 - Posted: 22 Aug 2014, 19:16:05 UTC

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Message 1560916 - Posted: 23 Aug 2014, 0:28:50 UTC - in response to Message 1560760.  


And you know until you search him he doesn't have a gun?


If he's not pointing and waving a gun around you should not assume that the perp has a gun.

A concealed weapon presents no danger while it remains concealed.
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Message 1560954 - Posted: 23 Aug 2014, 4:07:40 UTC - in response to Message 1560916.  


And you know until you search him he doesn't have a gun?


If he's not pointing and waving a gun around you should not assume that the perp has a gun.

A concealed weapon presents no danger while it remains concealed.

Your thinking would get you killed.

Just how long does it take to draw, fire and hit a target? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_draw
which means that the gun is cocked, drawn, aimed (from the hip), and fired in just over 0.06 seconds


Under one second is a very real time for that concealed weapon to kill you.
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Message boards : Politics : I hope that this cop gets to feel the full force of the law.


 
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