Er a little off topic

LOL:)) +1

[edit] @Clyde: Maybe he's 'fading' out, dunno...

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rOZZ
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Nice double standard there.

Mods can go off topic and joke about it with their buddies but trash others for doing so.

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Nice double standard there.

Mods can go off topic and joke about it with their buddies but trash others for doing so.

Sorry for offending you.

[edit] Last off topic comment: I didn't mean to trash Batter Up neither.

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rOZZ
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Nice double standard there.

Mods can go off topic and joke about it with their buddies but trash others for doing so.

Sorry for offending you.

Julie...

Some people are offended by everything.

Don't worry about them.

Ok, thanx Clyde:)

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rOZZ
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On Topic

So it has been established that her apparently irrational actions were not the result of drugs or alcohol. However we have known from day one that she has some sort of mental issues.

As to what the officer feared, Kevin Ward, Jr. unfortunately is an example.

She is now cleaned up and back on her meds. So she presents as a nice interview.

I still await the audio recording from the officer's mic. (All CHP officers wear a mic.) I don't know if dash cam or body cam video exists. Still haven't seen either officers' written report. Have no idea on any witness statements. Don't know if her lawyer has allowed her to be questioned.

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On Topic

So it has been established that her apparently irrational actions were not the result of drugs or alcohol. However we have known from day one that she has some sort of mental issues.

As to what the officer feared, Kevin Ward, Jr. unfortunately is an example.

She is now cleaned up and back on her meds. So she presents as a nice interview.

I still await the audio recording from the officer's mic. (All CHP officers wear a mic.) I don't know if dash cam or body cam video exists. Still haven't seen either officers' written report. Have no idea on any witness statements. Don't know if her lawyer has allowed her to be questioned.

So are you saying that it is ok to beat up mentally ill people?

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Reality Internet Personality

On Topic

So it has been established that her apparently irrational actions were not the result of drugs or alcohol. However we have known from day one that she has some sort of mental issues.

As to what the officer feared, Kevin Ward, Jr. unfortunately is an example.

She is now cleaned up and back on her meds. So she presents as a nice interview.

I still await the audio recording from the officer's mic. (All CHP officers wear a mic.) I don't know if dash cam or body cam video exists. Still haven't seen either officers' written report. Have no idea on any witness statements. Don't know if her lawyer has allowed her to be questioned.

So are you saying that it is ok to beat up mentally ill people?

What part of "I still await the audio recording from the officer's mic. (All CHP officers wear a mic.) I don't know if dash cam or body cam video exists. Still haven't seen either officers' written report. Have no idea on any witness statements. Don't know if her lawyer has allowed her to be questioned." didn't you understand?

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On Topic

So it has been established that her apparently irrational actions were not the result of drugs or alcohol. However we have known from day one that she has some sort of mental issues.

As to what the officer feared, Kevin Ward, Jr. unfortunately is an example.

She is now cleaned up and back on her meds. So she presents as a nice interview.

I still await the audio recording from the officer's mic. (All CHP officers wear a mic.) I don't know if dash cam or body cam video exists. Still haven't seen either officers' written report. Have no idea on any witness statements. Don't know if her lawyer has allowed her to be questioned.

So are you saying that it is ok to beat up mentally ill people?

What?

Who said it was OK to beat-up Mentally Ill people, who are no danger to anyone else?

The implication from Gary's post is that the woman is back on her meds so she seems all nice etc. Which seems to imply that if she is off her meds she deserved what she got.

Perhaps cops need to be trained better to deal with the mentally ill?

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Reality Internet Personality

On Topic

So it has been established that her apparently irrational actions were not the result of drugs or alcohol. However we have known from day one that she has some sort of mental issues.

As to what the officer feared, Kevin Ward, Jr. unfortunately is an example.

She is now cleaned up and back on her meds. So she presents as a nice interview.

I still await the audio recording from the officer's mic. (All CHP officers wear a mic.) I don't know if dash cam or body cam video exists. Still haven't seen either officers' written report. Have no idea on any witness statements. Don't know if her lawyer has allowed her to be questioned.

So are you saying that it is ok to beat up mentally ill people?

What?

Who said it was OK to beat-up Mentally Ill people, who are no danger to anyone else?

The implication from Gary's post is that the woman is back on her meds so she seems all nice etc. Which seems to imply that if she is off her meds she deserved what she got.

NO! What you can't do is use her present condition to infer that was her condition on the side of the freeway. I realize that is what her greedy lawyer bastard wants, and how he has "groomed" her to answer questions, but it isn't fair.

My post correctly points out that we have only heard one side. There is another side to be heard before judgements can be made. One that may explain what happened or may indict what happened. There are literately hundreds of factors that is in data we know exists that could argue one way or the other.

Perhaps cops need to be trained better to deal with the mentally ill?

Perhaps armchair peanut gallery types need to realize there are no perfect solutions and any solution is going to get ugly.

What needs to change is the USA's crazy control problem. It was created when the mentally ill got the right to be mentally ill and refuse treatment.

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On Topic

So it has been established that her apparently irrational actions were not the result of drugs or alcohol. However we have known from day one that she has some sort of mental issues.

As to what the officer feared, Kevin Ward, Jr. unfortunately is an example.

She is now cleaned up and back on her meds. So she presents as a nice interview.

I still await the audio recording from the officer's mic. (All CHP officers wear a mic.) I don't know if dash cam or body cam video exists. Still haven't seen either officers' written report. Have no idea on any witness statements. Don't know if her lawyer has allowed her to be questioned.

So are you saying that it is ok to beat up mentally ill people?

What?

Who said it was OK to beat-up Mentally Ill people, who are no danger to anyone else?

The implication from Gary's post is that the woman is back on her meds so she seems all nice etc. Which seems to imply that if she is off her meds she deserved what she got.

NO! What you can't do is use her present condition to infer that was her condition on the side of the freeway. I realize that is what her greedy lawyer bastard wants, and how he has "groomed" her to answer questions, but it isn't fair.

My post correctly points out that we have only heard one side. There is another side to be heard before judgements can be made. One that may explain what happened or may indict what happened. There are literately hundreds of factors that is in data we know exists that could argue one way or the other.

Perhaps cops need to be trained better to deal with the mentally ill?

Perhaps armchair peanut gallery types need to realize there are no perfect solutions and any solution is going to get ugly.

What needs to change is the USA's crazy control problem. It was created when the mentally ill got the right to be mentally ill and refuse treatment.

I've seen cops make a situation worse...and I've seen cops who were obviously trained in how to cope with people who are not in a rational state of mind. The difference in outcomes is startling.

I also take offence at your comment about the armchair peanut gallery. I am not sure what makes you the judge of people's experience here.

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Reality Internet Personality

I've seen cops make a situation worse...and I've seen cops who were obviously trained in how to cope with people who are not in a rational state of mind. The difference in outcomes is startling.

Can you give some examples?

I've worked with teenagers a long time, Clyde. In a part of London where there was a lot of gang violence, poverty and drugs. I won't give specifics because of confidentiality. I also have a son with PTSD which means I have had to get the police to help sometimes when he is triggered. The police here have clearly been trained in situations like these, so I feel that I am not putting my son at risk by calling for their help. I think if I were in America I would not call the police and run the risk that they would shoot my child rather than helping him. Even if that meant that I was at physical risk by not calling for help.

I am fortunate also that there has been other support and that he is getting better. Mental health is an issue that needs to be understood by all professionals who are working in frontline services. That means not just teachers (who sometimes have to deal with these problems in our classrooms), but police, doctors, social workers. This isn't a problem that can be shunted to one professional group as if they can magically fix it on their own.

Gary's suggestion that you force the mentally ill to take medicines is a simplistic one that shows he doesn't understand the complications associated with mental illness or understand that the mentally ill have rights too.

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Reality Internet Personality

Gary's suggestion that you force the mentally ill to take medicines is a simplistic one that shows he doesn't understand the complications associated with mental illness or understand that the mentally ill have rights too.

Unfortunate as it may seem, people who are mentally ill should be obliged to take their medication, if only for their own sake... Otoh, I always ask myself what mentally ill people in prehistory would have done as medication as we know it didn't even exist in those days. They probably ate plants or something...

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rOZZ
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I think if I were in America I would not call the police and run the risk that they would shoot my child rather than helping him. Even if that meant that I was at physical risk by not calling for help.

And you would be correct ...
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/07/23/conservatives-libertarians-and-liberals-should-all-worry-about-militarization/

Gary's suggestion that you force the mentally ill to take medicines is a simplistic one that shows he doesn't understand the complications associated with mental illness or understand that the mentally ill have rights too.

They do have rights. They have the right to remain ill. Perhaps I should have said treatment rather than meds.

The problem is, as soon as they gained the right to remain ill, the entire mental health field disappeared in the USA. There was no money because there were no patients.

The standard is rather hideous. If the ill are able to find enough dumpsters with food, bushes to use as bathrooms and bridges to sleep under when it rains, they they are not a danger to themselves and can't be forced to be sane. As to a danger to others, with the USA's free speech right, what they say means nothing, it is only after violence that they can be found a danger to others and treated against their will.

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I think if I were in America I would not call the police and run the risk that they would shoot my child rather than helping him. Even if that meant that I was at physical risk by not calling for help.

And you would be correct ...
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/07/23/conservatives-libertarians-and-liberals-should-all-worry-about-militarization/

Gary's suggestion that you force the mentally ill to take medicines is a simplistic one that shows he doesn't understand the complications associated with mental illness or understand that the mentally ill have rights too.

They do have rights. They have the right to remain ill. Perhaps I should have said treatment rather than meds.

The problem is, as soon as they gained the right to remain ill, the entire mental health field disappeared in the USA. There was no money because there were no patients.

The standard is rather hideous. If the ill are able to find enough dumpsters with food, bushes to use as bathrooms and bridges to sleep under when it rains, they they are not a danger to themselves and can't be forced to be sane. As to a danger to others, with the USA's free speech right, what they say means nothing, it is only after violence that they can be found a danger to others and treated against their will.

Money even decides on people's health these days. That's just awful...

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rOZZ
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The standard is rather hideous. If the ill are able to find enough dumpsters with food, bushes to use as bathrooms and bridges to sleep under when it rains, they they are not a danger to themselves and can't be forced to be sane. As to a danger to others, with the USA's free speech right, what they say means nothing, it is only after violence that they can be found a danger to others and treated against their will.

That IS the standard within The USA.

These people are wandering the streets, across the entire USA.

There are far too many people with their heads buried in the sand over this. They think there is some wonderful care system in place. There isn't. When SCOTUS changed the rules and closed all the mental health facilities these people had no place to go but wander the streets. They joined the economic homeless and made the streets extremely dangerous places. But they have their rights.

To blame the failure of The USA's Mental Health crisis on the Cops (simplistic calling for more education), does nothing to help these people.

+1

America has a crazy control problem. It has zero mental heath care system.

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In 19 Years at This House, I have seen One Wanderer. Came Out of The Woods or Street. It was Night.

'Seen' meaning next morning, to wit:

He opened my car and slept in it and after He woke came stumbling & mumbling to My Door asking for someone. Not Here I Said. He wandered a few strides up the sidewalk, turned around, fumbled with a hanging basket plant, making weird glances towards the door, and Wobbled out into The Street.

I Never opened the Door. I Spoke through it. He Mumbled through it. He Never came back. This was 'bout 3 years ago.

Was He Crazy? Don't know, but Seemed High and Drunk. Was he My Color? No. Many around here are not. Matters? Maybe, somehow. Did for The Hustler at My Voting Place. Twice.

He left a cig butt in my car. Suppose the butt could have ignited the papers he rifled through in my Glove Box ending on the floorboard or Fabric Seats, Rugs. Suppose The Blaze could have ignited the Other cars in Driveway, Oil tank a few feet away and The House.

But Luck Won Out. The Car Only REAKED of The Most Stinky Man I've ever come across, and I've Smelled a Few. Took weeks to Air Out.

About 6 Plain Clothes Cops with Guns Drawn did enter the house across the street 'bout 8 years ago, lookin' for someone.

Dats The Only Other Incident, 'cept for The Constant Gun fire I hear in The Hearable Distance.

Not as Much as When I First Moved Here(Every Night), but still Going On.

Man 'O Live. The US is GREAT!

Oh, I Should Say, Incident Personal To Me. Lookin' Out My Window over the 19 Years, I've Seen Dozens and Dozens of Cop Cars parked in The Street(Cummulative over the years, although at One Time, a few times, 6 to 10) and Dead End, tending to Whatever Business. Lots of Times a Bad Guy Ends Up running into the Dead End - not knowing it is there- Goes Off Running into The Woods and The Cops are There for Hours and Hours with Lights Flashing. Almost Always at Night.

Funny Thing Tho, No Cop Has Ever come knocking On My Door about Anything Ever Going On, Out There in The Streets.

Guess There was No Need. Cool with Me.

Yeah, Crazy Man Crazy

' '

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

In the simplest terms - WTF is happening in Ferguson, Mo. It's been 10 days since Michael Brown was shot by a white cop at least 6 times in the middle of the street in broad daylight, with 3 different witnesses, that did not know each other, saw what happened from 3 different angles and the cop hasn't been indicted yet. Not even a suspected charge. If it had been the other way around the shooter, cop or not, would have immediately have been charged, finger printed and seating in jail within hours; regardless of the circumstances.

There have been mounting protests since day one and have been mostly peaceful. They been getting more violent as time goes on, but it's mostly a small group of people causing the violent conflict. And, each day the cops had/has raised the response level to a greater dangerous level.

The governor, even though he is limited in his response, placed the state patrol in charge of the security and who them placed an African-American captain in charge. The local government's response to this is to ignore his suggestions and made matters worse. The police even started to threaten the press with arrests and tear gas. The situation had gotten so bad the governor had to issue a curfew. With the curfew in place, many thought that their constitutional right of assembly was/is being curbed, which further angered a great many of the protesters, peaceful ones and violent ones alike. It has gotten so bad the national guard will arrive sometime today to take over security. Which IMHO will only make matters worse, going from cops playing soldier, using heavy equipment which was/is meant for war on the local citizenry to actual troops.

The black citizens of Ferguson have not trust and confidence of the local city administration from the mayor down to the copy and especially the DA

It took an independent autopsy, requested by the family to find out how the young man died. Even though the preliminary autopsy that was presented last night showed that all shots were from the front and that the fatal shot was to the apex of his head, as if he was leaning forward, the wounds to his arm suggesting that his arms were up, and the DA is still dragging his feet.

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I don't buy computers, I build them!!

It took an independent autopsy, requested by the family to find out how the young man died. Even though the preliminary autopsy that was presented last night showed that all shots were from the front and that the fatal shot was to the apex of his head, as if he was leaning forward, the wounds to his arm suggesting that his arms were up, and the DA is still dragging his feet.

In that case, the cop should be off the streets, indicted, convicted of plain murder & imprisoned. If our military can be imprisoned for shooting an unarmed prisoner, then so should cops!

Cliff's post sure shows the "CSI" mentality. All cases are resolved in 60 minutes.

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Michael Brown shooting: 'Ample evidence' to arrest officer, lawyers say

I've been following this story and am stunned. As a mother of a son the same age I find this horrifying.

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Reality Internet Personality