AMD A-10 7850K.

Questions and Answers : GPU applications : AMD A-10 7850K.
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Profile Tom M
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Message 1536432 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014, 14:49:13 UTC - in response to Message 1536319.  

There is still an OpenCL_ATI5_NoCAL app, perhaps that your system picks that one up.


Where?

I am interested in the AMD A-10 7850K. Not this week or this month but maybe in the longer term. It LOOKS like it should be able to run a "ton" of Seti gpu tasks with 8 gpus. But since it apparently doesn't have CUDA support is there a way around that?

If so, tell me more, please.

Thanks,
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Message 1536463 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014, 16:29:10 UTC - in response to Message 1536432.  

There is still an OpenCL_ATI5_NoCAL app, perhaps that your system picks that one up.


Where?

Available by automated download when using the default science applications and an AMD/ATI GPU that doesn't any longer support CAL by hardware.

I am interested in the AMD A-10 7850K. Not this week or this month but maybe in the longer term. It LOOKS like it should be able to run a "ton" of Seti gpu tasks with 8 gpus. But since it apparently doesn't have CUDA support is there a way around that?

CUDA is the proprietary GPGPU calculation method used only by Nvidia GPUs. It stands for Compute Unified Device Architecture.

CAL was the proprietary GPGPU calculation method used by ATI GPUs. It stood for Compute Abstraction Layer.

OpenCL is what is now the open source newest format when it comes to GPGPU calculations. It stands for Open (source) Computation Language and can be used on GPUs, CPUs and a couple of other processing devices as well. It's a one language - multiple uses resource language.

Whereas ATI (now AMD) has stopped developing CAL in favor for OpenCL, Nvidia has done it the other way around and stopped OpenCL development and support for their GPUs and is only gearing towards their own CUDA.

This means that all present Nvidia GPUs can do OpenCL 1.0 or 1.1 and won't have support for the newer versions. They can run newer OpenCL, but won't use the new functions of OpenCL. A bit like being able to run DirectX 9c on a DirectX 7 videocard. It'll use the Dx7 functions in Dx9c, but not all the shiny new things that Dx9c could do. No hardware support.

Thus, the AMD A-10 7850K APU has full OpenCL support, and will be able to run 4 CPU tasks and 8 OpenCL GPU tasks.
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Message 1536477 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014, 17:14:16 UTC - in response to Message 1536463.  

If I just understood you right, we can run stock Bonic/Seti on this cpu/gpu and will get gpu related work?

Here is why I am interested: "...the new Kaveri chips should offer a total compute power of 856 gigaflops when you combine its up-to 12 compute cores (4 CPU cores and up-to 8 Radeon R7 GPU cores)..

For what it is worth here is a LONG review of the chip in question.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_a10_7850k_apu_review,1.html

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Message 1536489 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014, 18:02:39 UTC - in response to Message 1536477.  

If I just understood you right, we can run stock Bonic/Seti on this cpu/gpu and will get gpu related work?

As long as BOINC recognizes the GPU and sees it as a CAL capable device, then yes. If it doesn't see it as a CAL capable device, well, bets are off at the moment. Seti uses the CAL detection at the moment to decide if an AMD/ATI GPU can run OpenCL or not. That may be weird, but the admin is working on that.

Here is why I am interested: "...the new Kaveri chips should offer a total compute power of 856 gigaflops when you combine its up-to 12 compute cores (4 CPU cores and up-to 8 Radeon R7 GPU cores)..

OpenCL is only available at Seti for GPUs, not for CPUs (yet). So the CPU cores would get 'normal' Seti v7 applications to run. The GPU would get an OpenCL application, or more than one. Depends on how we need to read that.

Compute Cores aren't synonymous to GPUs. So it's not that the GPU has 8 GPUs. It's one GPU with 8 compute cores. Which can run one OpenCL task, but across those 8 cores simultaneously.
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Message 1536503 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014, 19:38:53 UTC - in response to Message 1536489.  

Thank you for your reply.

It is confusing on this particular AMD A-8/A-10 product. From what I am reading. Each GPU core is the "equivalent" of a video card from a computation point of view. And the appropriate motherboard provides the rest of the hardware to make video available. As the reviewer pointed out, you are going to want the fastest ram you can find because you no longer have "video ram" being separated from the main system ram.

And furthermore the high end includes 512 "shaders" (that I am interpreting to be individual calculating units similar to the "cuda cores" that show up in small to large multiples on the Nvidia video cards I have.

I have run upto 4 cuda simultaneous tasks on each of my gpu/video cards. So I know you can run 8 tasks at once (I am getting a pci video card so I can see what is going on without bothering my gpus).

So by this analogy you should be able to easily run nearly 32 cuda-equivalent tasks on 8 ATI-type gpus.

I am aware where my ignorance/logic breaks down. Maybe OpenCL doesn't treat individual video cards separately. Or may OpenCL always treats a gpu as an indivisible subject which means one task per gpu.

It would sorta nice to "see" what Windows thought was installed. I suspect (unless hyper threading is turned on) the task manager sees 4 cpu's. And the device manager sees 8 video cards.

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Tom
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Message 1536671 - Posted: 6 Jul 2014, 6:09:46 UTC - in response to Message 1536503.  

So by this analogy you should be able to easily run nearly 32 cuda-equivalent tasks on 8 ATI-type gpus.

No
This is one GPU, one video card
It will be no faster than Radeon HD 7750 or even HD 6670 (combined with e.g. Athlon II X4)
Don't expect miracles, just consider the price of this APU to combined price of CPU+GPU of similar specs

No more than 2 OpenCL tasks will be able to run efficiently on the GPU


(I know you will continue to hope and ask again.
But do you consider AMD so stupid to sell super-computer for $170 ?
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-A10-Series%20A10-7850K.html

How they will sell Radeon R9 290X then?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Volcanic_Islands_.28Rx_200.29_Series

Radeon R9 290X have 2816 'cores' = (maybe?) 44 'compute units' (CUs)

My Radeon HD 6570 have 480 'cores' = 6 'compute units' (CUs)
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/result.php?resultid=3592935317
)
 


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Message 1536704 - Posted: 6 Jul 2014, 7:23:08 UTC

Look also here for A10-7850K (See how it's written '8 CUs'):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Accelerated_Processing_Unit_microprocessors#.22Kaveri.22_.282014.2C_28_nm.29

"Note 2:
Unified shader processors (USPs): Texture mapping units (TMUs): Render output units (ROPs).
1 CU (Compute Unit) = 64 USPs: 4 TMUs : 1 ROPs
"


To test for the optimal number of GPU tasks get this package:
SetiPerformance 1.8 + Added apps from Lunatics v0.41
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=73524
 


- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 
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Message 1538139 - Posted: 8 Jul 2014, 22:52:45 UTC - in response to Message 1536704.  

I would love to get the Setiperformance testing software but the download site is setup to spam all over the place. And my browser barfed them back at it.

I would be happy to make the download freely/without spam available. Someone get to me and I will post in on my ChatNFiles.com website.

Tom
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Message 1538544 - Posted: 9 Jul 2014, 16:05:51 UTC - in response to Message 1538139.  

I would love to get the Setiperformance testing software but the download site is setup to spam all over the place. And my browser barfed them back at it.

I would be happy to make the download freely/without spam available. Someone get to me and I will post in on my ChatNFiles.com website.

Tom


http://www.arkayn.us/seti/SetiPerformance_32_64_1_8__BilBg-Add_Lunatics_v041.7z

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Message 1538621 - Posted: 9 Jul 2014, 17:45:45 UTC - in response to Message 1538544.  

Thank you. Will get right on it.

Tom
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Message 1539075 - Posted: 10 Jul 2014, 11:09:14 UTC - in response to Message 1538139.  

I would love to get the Setiperformance testing software but the download site is setup to spam all over the place. And my browser barfed them back at it.


I don't see any spam/ads because I use:
AdBlock
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/adblock/gighmmpiobklfepjocnamgkkbiglidom/details
 


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Message 1540397 - Posted: 12 Jul 2014, 16:11:33 UTC - in response to Message 1536671.  

This is one GPU, one video card
It will be no faster than Radeon HD 7750 or even HD 6670 (combined with e.g. Athlon II X4)
Don't expect miracles, just consider the price of this APU to combined price of CPU+GPU of similar specs

No more than 2 OpenCL tasks will be able to run efficiently on the GPU

According to the top GPU's list both HD 6670 (.153) and the HD 7750 (.453) move along at a pretty good clip.

I lost track of how my GeForce 210's are rated (they were really low cost/half height cards [one of my cases won't take anything else]) but remember it as being .071 so even the HD 6670 is twice as fast.

So if I am reading it right I could expect as much as 6 (4 cpu + 2 gpu) tasks to run in parallel but possibly as few as 4 (3 cpu + 1 gpu) depending on if "it needs a cpu for the gpu" like has been posted.

Anyway, thanks. Yes, I am disappointed but it was a basic advertising/terminology issue.

Tom
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Message 1541615 - Posted: 14 Jul 2014, 17:17:08 UTC

I have looked at building seti boxes around the a10 though cost and heat have made me consider the a6.

Having run a 8150 for sum time made it clear to to me that to put these

multi core processors under any real load and the factory cooler have trouble

keeping up.

The whole idea of building seti boxes was to build driverless mini towers

that would network boot with 2 mid range video cards with standard coolers for

both cards and apu's as the aftermarket cooler quickly came to the price of

another box and overclocking was just not a good bang for buck trade.

I will need motherboard's and apu's for the first 2 for which I already have

the other parts and video cards. After that I will try to build for about 400 dollars a box.

I will post back here after the first build.
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Message 1541634 - Posted: 14 Jul 2014, 18:02:13 UTC - in response to Message 1541615.  

I remember reading certain Radeon cards could be used in conjunction with the A-X series in "cross far" mode. But it is not clear if that would speed up the GPU-based processing for Ceti or not.

It almost seems like you should buy the "fastest" GPU's you can afford and install them on a cpu/motherboard that is "just fast enough" to service the card and therefore might be "cheaper."

I look forward to your posts on your plans. Thank you for sharing them.

Tom
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Message 1541644 - Posted: 14 Jul 2014, 18:37:18 UTC - in response to Message 1541634.  

I remember reading certain Radeon cards could be used in conjunction with the A-X series in "cross far" mode.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_CrossFireX
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Questions and Answers : GPU applications : AMD A-10 7850K.


 
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