The midwife and the father were both high as kites and giggling away.

I never yelled to my husband like that before. It's your fault, you did this to me!!! LOL:) He wasn't giggling... That was with my first. 9 hours in labor please!!

LMAO!

I hit the midwife during the birth of my first. She wouldn't let me have more painkiller until she'd checked how far I was dilated. I was like "no, get your f*cking hands of me". I was in so much pain. So was the student Dr who they bought in to observe and who made the mistake of letting me hold his arm.

Ouch:))

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rOZZ
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Pictures

My hand is up. I had pre eclampsia with my first child.

I have three children that I know of and didn't have any of these problems. I keept my figure too.

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I have three children that I know of and didn't have any of these problems. I keept my figure too.

*rolls eyes*

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rOZZ
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My hand is up. I had pre eclampsia with my first child.

How "inconvenient" for you.

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Reality Internet Personality

You have no respect for life at all.

You cannot see a child, you see cells.

You see no rights of that child, just your own.

The pain of child birth has no bearing on the matter, you offer a canard.

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Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...

The pain of child birth has no bearing on the matter, ....

We disagree; it is written.

Genesis 3:16
To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."

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You have no respect for life at all.

You cannot see a child, you see cells.

You see no rights of that child, just your own.

The pain of child birth has no bearing on the matter, you offer a canard.

I suggest you go and sit on an ice pick.

You have no respect for life at all.

You cannot see a child, you see cells.

Yes, it would totally break its little heart if it had one.

You see no rights of that child,

I value children so much that I want every child born to a mother that wants it and can care properly for it. That's how much I care for the actual children.

just your own.

Why should I not care for my own rights? I am human. Or did you go and forget. Again.

The pain of child birth has no bearing on the matter,

If the pun was intended it was quite amusing. It is also amuses me that you can make such a statement smug in the knowledge that you can order other people to do it and you will never have to. I wish you many kidney stones in your life.

you offer a canard.

Well what's sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander.

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Reality Internet Personality

I have three children that I know of and didn't have any of these problems. I keept my figure too.

*rolls eyes*

OMG!

During the first two births, my wife called me, everyone else she could think of, and God (she's a Believer), every name in the book.

The next two, she didn't. It seemed to me to be easier, and she said they were less painful.

That's normal Clyde, my first was also the most painful and longest parturition:)

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rOZZ
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Pictures

Okay. I've been reading this thread for some time folks and it's time to muddy some waters I think. Hello everyone :) How are you all? Well I hope! :)

ID - this might burn, if so, I'm sorry :( but if you can, give it some thought.

As a product of marital rape I can honestly say I wish my mother had had the option of an abortion... It would have given her the opportunity to choose:
- whether she could find it within herself to love her twins when they were born...
- or know that she could not...

Instead, with no point at which she could reach a decision where she might have been able to try to start to love us whilst her body still nurtured us, all that was left for her to do was suffer the nightmare of having something growing inside her that degraded her in every sense of the word... go through the agony of giving birth to what should never have been conceived... and then been emotionally torn apart by it every day of the rest of her life :(

It took her well over thirty years to even begin to get over that... So from her point of view:
- She most absolutely definitely should have had that pregnancy terminated;
- From my point of view - given what I went through - she most absolutely definitely should have had that pregnancy terminated.
- My twin? :) Well she would probably disagree - now... but I did shield her from so much... and she always had me to love her :)

Any woman who doubts whether she will be able to provide a loving, secure, and healthy physical and emotional environment for a baby-to-be, whatever the reasons are, and who then chooses to seek an abortion, is acting with far greater responsibility than any man has to at the zygote stage. It is never about convenience. It is her body and only she knows the path she walks. I think that makes me somewhat pro-choice... As to when a zygote is "human"... this collection of cells reached that much exalted pinnacle around the age of twenty three :)

That's the problem Clyde, too many men make the assumption with their demeaning statements: -

"She must have asked for it" & others of that ilk.

Most do not realise that rape is not about the sex but "Control"

The devastation that rape causes within the family/social circle is immense & extremely painful to witness.

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Yet you say..."For one, that creature is alive and reached the stage where its self sustaining.", as is the zygote, if left along will develop into a fully functional human being. The DNA of said zygote says fully human individual. Truly a human being. The only thing stopping this human from drawing their first breath is another human who has been inconvenienced by its presence by no actions of his own but by the actions of the woman carrying it.

It has the possibility of becoming a human but it is not human, not even alive at the moment you abort it. Hence, not murder, not immoral and not unethical.

As for what DNA says, if you take my toe nails and check its DNA it also says its fully human. Does that mean that throwing my toe nail clippings in the garbage bin equals criminal neglect? Of course not. The DNA argument has no merit.

Ah, your death now prevents us from seeing you on the street or court system! How very God Damned magnanimous of you! On the other hand you could dig in your pocket, or give of YOUR time, but no, you have the perfect solution, lets just give you the death penalty now, no trial, no jury. Sorry, I'm all about the individual, and his or her freedom. I could care less about any damned group of people.

In order for something to die it first needs to be alive. A clump of cells is just as much alive as my toe nail clippings. They both grow as long as they are connected to my body and they both stop growing once I sever the connection.

The only rights you see is the mother of the child, not the child.

The only rights that matter here are the rights of the mother given that the child is not a child yet. And if you care so much about those unwanted children that you force to be born, how much of your money do you donate to mothers who can't afford their children? How much of your time have you spend taking care of those unwanted children so their mothers can go to work or college? I find that most of you pro life people instantly lose interest in said 'life' the moment its born.

Key word---needlessly. The child did nothing to get a death sentence and being human deserves all laws applying to being a human.

How is the multicellular organism on Mars deserving law that applies to humans only?

Just as the law does not apply to anyones toe nail clippings, neither does that law apply to a bunch of cells.

And the law of not killing things needlessly does not just apply to humans, it applies to all living creatures (and before you react, zygotes are not counted as living creatures). I wouldn't want you to kill a cat or a dog or a fish or a cow or a spider for no particular reason either.

Agree to a point. An example -

'Das Capital' was a wonderful indictment (not completely correct of course) of 19th Century Capitalism, and the creeping return to it presently.

The proposed solution (experiment?) - 'The Communist Manifesto' - resulted in WORSE HORRORS against the people it was trying to help, Stalinism, Maoism, etc. To say they didn't do it correctly, is to say if attempted again, it may result in the same horrors. Who, but a deranged psychopath, would attempt that?

To say Replace. OF COURSE! But with what? Horrible failure's of the past? Another Experiment?

When the 'Cure' has resulted in a worse 'Disease': One must proceed cautiously.

Well yes, its obvious that Communism doesn't work. But surely there can be other, not yet invented or implemented systems that might work as alternatives to capitalism. Just because one alternative didn't work doesn't mean we shouldn't be thinking about other alternatives anymore.

+1

However, what I find more sickening is stories like this...

Rape victim 16 trolled by sick Net users

...makes one wonder about the human race sometimes.

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Okay. I've been reading this thread for some time folks and it's time to muddy some waters I think. Hello everyone :) How are you all? Well I hope! :)

ID - this might burn, if so, I'm sorry :( but if you can, give it some thought.

As a product of marital rape...

anniet...

This is much too personal, and I hope/wish 'Others' understand this, and not make judgment's.

Unfortunately, her story is not unique. Perhaps if more woman weren't shamed into not sharing their stories, people would have a bit more understanding about the issue.

I am sure the mods will take care of any idiot who dares to try it.

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Reality Internet Personality

anniet...

This is much too personal, and I hope/wish 'Others' understand this, and not make judgment's.

Clyde :)

If people wish to make judgements, that really is fine. I truly have no problem with that :) If it is too personal for others, then I am sorry :( I normally keep all my little anniet's tucked up safe and warm and fast asleep in my head :) Sometimes, something wakes one up though.

The first few times the topic turned to abortion, I left it to others to wrestle with those who perhaps judge a little hastily, or with knee-jerk reactions, or from a rigid moral standpoint. They did very well (you know who you are :)) and I admire them for standing their ground. I must admit however, that I had thought the subject had been laid to rest.

But from a thread which started:

I'm pretty sure SETI@HOME isn't prejudiced against 'blue collar' workers, etc but it isn't seen as something of use or value to many. I don't think it's an education problem but mainly the indoctrination of the masses that some things which don't have monetary results are 'elitist'?
I'm British subject so have a somewhat different outlook on many things, in my somewhat narrow view, it seems USA is more money/greed orientated/motivated than many European countries?

the topic had obviously wandered a little and... ahem... whilst I am the last person who could lecture anyone on that point :) when I saw what should be a very personal issue, abortion, being dredged up yet again... in the same judgemental fashion as before, I thought that a perspective from the middle of the battlefield (so to speak) where unfortunately far too many have been (as Es99 has already pointed out) might provoke something just a little more considered from some quarters...

If it does not and we're back to square one again... fair enough... but then there would seem little point in it continuing surely, other than for marking out territory :/

Let's see what transpires :) If at the end everyone is still deep in their trenches and I've had a few bits lopped off for standing up in the middle of the battlefield... then perhaps a return to the thread's original square one might lead to more refreshing dialogue :)

You have no respect for life at all.

You cannot see a child, you see cells.

You see no rights of that child, just your own.

The pain of child birth has no bearing on the matter, you offer a canard.

I suggest you go and sit on an ice pick.

That is to the point.

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Dat Guy from GreenLand said:

...makes one wonder about the human race sometimes.

Vrold is Full Of Angels and Demons, Everythang In Between. What's to Wonder About?

HuWoMan Bad. Extinction GOod.

'cept fO da Animal, Insect, etc. Kingdoms.

Yeah, The Wo of HuWoMan get Shat On Constantly. Seen The Kalifornia Senators? 'specially dat one from SF. Ooooba. Only 5 Men Bad?

heeeheeeheee

Got Microbe? Contraception?

' '

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

You have no respect for life at all.

You cannot see a child, you see cells.

You see no rights of that child, just your own.

The pain of child birth has no bearing on the matter, you offer a canard.

I suggest you go and sit on an ice pick.

That is to the point.

Are you worried he might find it "inconvenient" to do so?

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Reality Internet Personality