US to Withdraw fro ITER


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Message 1534349 - Posted: 1 Jul 2014, 6:45:40 UTC

The Senate has decided to withdraw US participation in ITER. The fusion reactor being built is apparently becoming more expensive all the while and the US part of the expense ever growing...

I can see it now. We have to beg for energy while the participants essentially harvest free fusion energy...

Personally think its a dumb move...
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Message 1534352 - Posted: 1 Jul 2014, 6:58:37 UTC

Fusion is a dream that sucks money up. I remember as a ten year old reading about fusion. That in 50 years it will be a reality. Well Im 61 now and I still read that in 50 years it will a reality. I doubt I will live to see it. I doubt my grandchildren will either.
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Message 1534354 - Posted: 1 Jul 2014, 7:05:20 UTC

I can't see fusion in the next 50 years either.

BTW shouldn't this be in Science (non-Seti) ?

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Message 1534360 - Posted: 1 Jul 2014, 7:32:00 UTC
Last modified: 1 Jul 2014, 7:32:54 UTC

This would probably be better in another section of these forums (yes, Science (non-Seti) or Politics), as it was started by political motivations), but for those who don't know what ITER is here's Wikipedia's description.

But the continual specification changes and budget overruns have put this project years behind schedule with a cost over 3 times that originally costed at with no end still in site. 2027 is now the earliest predicted date for commencement of operations, 9yrs so far after the planned date.

So you really can't blame any government withdrawing their participation in this project.

Cheers.

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Message 1534439 - Posted: 1 Jul 2014, 12:41:33 UTC - in response to Message 1534352.

Fusion is a dream that sucks money up. I remember as a ten year old reading about fusion. That in 50 years it will be a reality. Well Im 61 now and I still read that in 50 years it will a reality. I doubt I will live to see it. I doubt my grandchildren will either.

I did a term paper in a college physics class regarding the use of fusion to generate clean cheap energy and that practical fusion stations were just around the corner. That was 42 years ago. I remember t-shirts that said "nuclear fusion, the power of the future". They can still sell the same shirts today.
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Message 1534460 - Posted: 1 Jul 2014, 14:27:45 UTC

ITER is both beyond schedule and beyond budget. I think nobody has the courage to say stop, it is too big to fail. The US decision is right.
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Message 1534660 - Posted: 2 Jul 2014, 2:06:58 UTC - in response to Message 1534349.
Last modified: 2 Jul 2014, 2:09:10 UTC

The Senate has decided to withdraw US participation in ITER.

The Senate did no such thing. A subcommittee said US pays too much and wants to cut what we will pay in 2015 from $150 million down to $75 million. The House wants to go with the full Monti. What happens now is both houses get together and work something out; most likely appropriating $188 million for the year.

With Obama buying contraceptives for the great unwashed US can't take care of the rest of the world as US once did. Suck it up world and dig deeper into your own pockets. I'm talking to you France where this pork is flowing into.

BTW Oz and Canada never joined so it's really their fault.
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Message 1534679 - Posted: 2 Jul 2014, 4:33:19 UTC
Last modified: 2 Jul 2014, 4:36:59 UTC

The link I included was removed.. That link spoke for itself.

If you do not make the attempt you can never succeed at anything...

Would suggest that "With Obama buying contraceptives for the great unwashed US" is a political statement that does not belong in this forum but rather the politics forum.
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Message 1534680 - Posted: 2 Jul 2014, 4:35:25 UTC - in response to Message 1534660.

With Obama buying contraceptives

What a straw man, that's chump change.
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Message 1534726 - Posted: 2 Jul 2014, 6:41:33 UTC
Last modified: 2 Jul 2014, 6:41:53 UTC

ITER was to cost 5 billion euro in 2006. It has already cost 15 billion euro in 2010 and is going to cost even more. Its start up was to be in 2016, now it is foreseen in 2026.But it is just a proof of concept plant, not even a demonstration plant, which means it won't produce any electricity, only 14 MeV neutrons. Then you must use them to heat some water, produce vapor which powers the turbines and the generators. There must be a simpler way to heat water.
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Message 1534843 - Posted: 2 Jul 2014, 11:26:34 UTC - in response to Message 1534726.
Last modified: 2 Jul 2014, 11:28:22 UTC

ITER was to cost 5 billion euro in 2006. It has already cost 15 billion euro in 2010 and is going to cost even more. Its start up was to be in 2016, now it is foreseen in 2026...

And yet...

The USA lost/spent more than all that on just one oil spill due to sloppy operating (Deepwater Horizon, and the mess continues). More than that yet is spent prospecting for oil that we cannot afford to burn...

Meanwhile, R&D into something better is starved of funds... Even for just the very meager percent of funds squandered on increasing pollution...


ITER is something very new and although the physics is well understood, the mechanics to implement it requires new development.

Unfortunately, the surrounding politics look to be more expensive for delay and cost and yet more political delay than the project itself!


All on our only one planet,
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Message 1534867 - Posted: 2 Jul 2014, 13:27:35 UTC - in response to Message 1534680.

With Obama buying contraceptives

What a straw man, that's chump change.

A chump here a chump there and it adds up.
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Message 1536131 - Posted: 4 Jul 2014, 20:58:32 UTC - in response to Message 1534349.

The Senate has decided to withdraw US participation in ITER. The fusion reactor being built is apparently becoming more expensive all the while and the US part of the expense ever growing...

I can see it now. We have to beg for energy while the participants essentially harvest free fusion energy...

Personally think its a dumb move...


Please can you post a link? I can't find anything about it on ITER's website.

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Message 1536136 - Posted: 4 Jul 2014, 21:02:06 UTC - in response to Message 1534352.
Last modified: 4 Jul 2014, 21:26:51 UTC

Fusion is a dream that sucks money up. I remember as a ten year old reading about fusion. That in 50 years it will be a reality. Well Im 61 now and I still read that in 50 years it will a reality. I doubt I will live to see it. I doubt my grandchildren will either.




https://www.euronuclear.org/e-news/e-news-15/listening.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawson_criterion

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Message 1536193 - Posted: 4 Jul 2014, 22:32:58 UTC - in response to Message 1536131.

Please can you post a link? I can't find anything about it on ITER's website.
This isn't a done deal. As with most Interweb news it takes some reading to get past the shock headline.
But the fate of the U.S. ITER effort is hardly sealed. Appropriators in the House of Representatives released their version of the proposed DOE budget on 18 June and not only supported continued U.S. participation in ITER, but also proposed giving the project $225 million next year. The House total is $75 million more than what the White House had requested.
Of course finding the facts gets boring so most don't bother.
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Message 1536208 - Posted: 4 Jul 2014, 22:52:55 UTC

Ok I think I know which reactor type your talking about . America probably pulling out mite have more to do with pride ? C.E.R.N is in France now this ? and then there is the American version with Lazers (which I think is a dud) and the money poored into that ? Deos anyone know if the Yanks are going to put the money into some other project ? or general coffers of the gov
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Message 1536253 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014, 0:44:28 UTC - in response to Message 1536208.
Last modified: 5 Jul 2014, 0:45:32 UTC

Ok I think I know which reactor type your talking about . America probably pulling out mite have more to do with pride ? C.E.R.N is in France now this ? and then there is the American version with Lazers (which I think is a dud) and the money poored into that ? Deos anyone know if the Yanks are going to put the money into some other project ? or general coffers of the gov

There is ALCATOR at MIT, designed by Bruno Coppi. It costs much less than ITER. ALCATOR stands for ALto CAmpu TORus.A European version called IGNITOR (Italy and Russia) should be built at the Igor Kurchatov Institute in Moscow. Cost should be about 250 million dollars.
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Message 1536257 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014, 1:20:32 UTC - in response to Message 1536136.



A simple squint-extrapolation of the log-linear line predicts that the ITER criterion was met 8 or 9 years ago and that the conditions for a power plant were also achieved in the past.

So it's safe to say the growth in "triple product" is no longer exponential.

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Message 1536261 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014, 1:48:15 UTC - in response to Message 1536257.

Do you mean the Lawson criterium?
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Message 1536318 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014, 5:29:35 UTC - in response to Message 1536193.

Please can you post a link? I can't find anything about it on ITER's website.
This isn't a done deal. As with most Interweb news it takes some reading to get past the shock headline.
But the fate of the U.S. ITER effort is hardly sealed. Appropriators in the House of Representatives released their version of the proposed DOE budget on 18 June and not only supported continued U.S. participation in ITER, but also proposed giving the project $225 million next year. The House total is $75 million more than what the White House had requested.
Of course finding the facts gets boring so most don't bother.


Thanks, I supposed it was something like this. Then probably it will not happen.

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