If not Methane then what is doing this ?

Need not be methane to be a causative agent for the upwelling. However it does seem to be a likely suspect.

As to the cause of the methane, decay of organic matter.

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As to the cause of the methane, decay of organic matter.

That's a fair statement and could explain the gradual increase but not the sudden releases that the chart clearly show is happening .

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Dr. HOHUM Been Holding This Fart fO 400 Years. Here Goes!

HOHUM and Through The Moon with My DRum DRum Bum Bum.

Ouch. That'll leave A HUGE HOLE in The Ground and In The Moon.

Explain Dat.

Hooba

' '

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Mister Gooba Gaba my explanation to you is this

STOP EATING THEM BAKED BEANS mate

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It's spelled deniers.

Is that the pathetic best you can do?

So... Ignore the entire subject, completely ignore the discussion, and instead try to ridicule over a minor typo. Amazed you deign to waste our time.


Sorry, your flatulent farts pass off as nothing more than unworthy noise and pollution. Please waste your noise on another thread.

Denial and to troll is your dream? Good luck elsewhere.


Meanwhile, on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Can someone please explain what is causing this in Siberia .....



If not Methane then what is doing this ?...

Thanks for a beautiful example. Excellent. And a worrying example of the progress of our climate warming...

Yep, from the surrounding debris I'll agree it looks like a Pingo that has met its demise.

Possibly also, it could be a collapse into a limestone void below, similar to that suffered by some parts of Florida for example. That's less likely but depends on where in Siberia for what's there.


Regardless of whether methane or permafrost ice, a very old large formation has melted where once it was stable for an awful long time...

And like selfish idiots we are still doing this to our atmosphere and planet...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

... Do you realize we have a friendly bet in the PM's, regarding when you will get to a dozen childish name calling posts. ...

So that is indeed your game as demonstrated.

Thank you for openly admitting your trolling.

No useful discussion from you. We can leave you to spam elsewhere. I guess vandals and pariahs are an unfortunate part of the mix even if disproportionately noisy...


Still all on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

How 'bout Dat Vrold's Largest Solar * Concentrator in Kali, U S A !

Cost 1.6B of U S A Citi Zens Moola and 'They' Want Another 600M.

Only putting out 1/4 Capacity.

And Here's The Real Bad Part: Kali Study Says: 28K of Sweet Little and Big Birdies WILL BE FRIED, a year, by 800 Degreee Heeeat, 'cause The Birdies Think The Mirrors Are Water.

'Course, another study says Only 1K a year Fried.

I DENY GREEN ENERGY as Manifested Today, I DENY Global Climate Change.

I DENY Birdie KILL eeers.

GREEN is BAD.

Long Live Fossils.

' '

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

The real story of US coal: inside the world's biggest coalmine

America gets about 40% of its electricity from coal - and by far the biggest share of that coal comes from Powder River. According to the Energy Information Administration (EIA), its use of coal for energy rose 4.8% last year, in part because of the Arctic blasts of the polar vortex. Carbon dioxide emissions from energy registered one of their steepest rises in the last quarter century.

Australia, where Peabody has three mines and which has the world’s second largest reserves of coal, has ramped up production 37% since 2000, helped by up to $3.5bn in government subsidies to the entire fossil fuel industry, a forthcoming report from the Overseas Development Institute and Oil Change International will say.

China has doubled its use of coal over the last decade. India is preparing to open its large coal reserves to foreign mining companies to meet a promise to hook up the 400 million without electricity on to the grid in the next five years.

Coal use in Germany rose last year for the third year in a row, even as the country met its ambitious targets to transition to wind and solar power. Poland has been promoting its coal as an alternative to Russian natural gas.

Overall global coal use rose 3% last year, faster than any other fossil fuel, according to the BP Statistical Review of World Energy.

That’s a disaster in the making, scientists and energy experts say. The International Energy Agency has concluded that two-thirds of all fossil fuels will have to stay in the ground if the world is going to avoid crossing the 2C threshold into dangerous climate change.

Obama agrees. Burning all of those fossil fuels would trigger “dire consequences” for the planet, he told an interviewer last June. “We’re not going to be able to burn it all.”

But the reality is that Obama has spent the last six years expanding coal, oil and gas production under his “all of the above” energy strategy.

But the reality is that Obama has spent the last six years expanding coal, oil and gas production under his “all of the above” energy strategy.

So, CoalLovingWarLovingTalkOutBothSidesOfMouthPitifulPeacePrizin'Hustlin'Hussein,

LOVES COAL and WAR.

Who'd A Thunk 'it'.

Fossil Fuels 'is' Da Bomb, and I Don't Mean 'Cyclone' Bomb.

I DENY The Crappola Use of Words and Terms to SCARE People into Believing The LIE of HuWoMan Manufactured Global Climate Change.

Dr. HOHUM Says: 'Is' Dat A 'Cyclone' * Bomb I See Up Dere In The Wild Blue Yonder, Going North? Nah, Only Another Bright Blue, CO2 and O2 Lovely Day.

HOHUM. Going 'Bomb' 'Bomb' on My DRum DRum

' '

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

The real story of US coal: inside the world's biggest coalmine

America gets about 40% of its electricity from coal - and by far the biggest share of that coal comes from Powder River. According to the Energy Information Administration (EIA), its use of coal for energy rose 4.8% last year, in part because of the Arctic blasts of the polar vortex. Carbon dioxide emissions from energy registered one of their steepest rises in the last quarter century.

Australia, where Peabody has three mines and which has the world’s second largest reserves of coal, has ramped up production 37% since 2000, helped by up to $3.5bn in government subsidies to the entire fossil fuel industry...

That is quite an OUCH for the environment.

I wonder how cleanly renewable we could go for that $3.5bn in government subsidies? I'm sure a lot further than the get-rich-quick and pollution-be-damned short term polluted view...


The other biggie of fossil fuels inflicted destruction is ofcourse the poisonous mining ongoing in what was pristine arctic forest in Canada. Their Alberta tar sands cover what is now a vast toxic wasteland larger than the size of some countries...

As Sarah Palin is notoriously famed for: BURN BABY BURN!...

Can that be denied?...

How soon before the whole world view turns to mark those large scale atrocities as insane and criminal and worse still, all stupidly unnecessary?...


All on the only one planet we live on,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

And here are a few ongoing examples that we can expect to increase for the ongoing fall-out and collateral damage from our pollution of our atmosphere.

Note that there is yet another yet more detailed good piece of reliable science now published adding up just how more extreme our weather will be pushed as we pollute further. In brief, expect lots more heavy rain for heavier deluges, more often, and with more lightning. Add in high winds to give you more storms also.

And then there is the now repeating "Polar Vortex" that is oncemore being pushed down across Canada and America... Unusual? Or now the new usual?




Waves close Dawlish railway station in Devon

Dawlish train station on the Devon coast has been closed as waves and gales batter the South West.

The line remains open to trains but a 30mph speed restriction imposed earlier this week remains in place. ...

... The disruption and damage comes after £35m of repairs following last winter's storms. When an 80m stretch of the wall was destroyed last winter, Cornwall and much of Devon were left without train services to the rest of the UK from February to April...


Trees block roads as strong winds hit Wales

Strong winds have felled trees and caused damage to buildings in south Wales as gusts of up 75mph are expected.

Speed restrictions are in place on parts of the motorway network and the A470 is blocked by a fallen tree near Builth Wells. The Met Office has upgraded its weather warning for Carmarthenshire, Swansea, Ceredigion, Gwynedd, and Pembrokeshire...


Arctic blast hits Canada and US

Parts of Canada and the US have been getting their first blast of winter, sending temperatures plummeting by as much as 22C (40F) in days.

The sharply cooler temperatures are a result of frigid air pushed in by a powerful storm that hit Alaska with hurricane-force winds.

There have been more than two feet of snow in parts of Michigan. And more than 150 flights were cancelled at the Minneapolis airport.

The chill is now spreading into the Pacific Northwest. ...



Meanwhile, here is yet another continuing example of how the fossil fuels producers care nothing for the environment:

Shell 'warned Nigeria pipeline could leak before spills'

Oil firm Royal Dutch Shell was told a pipeline had reached the end of its life years before it spilled up to 500,000 barrels of oil, according to court documents seen by the BBC.

Two spills in 2008 affected about 35 sq miles (90 sq km) in southern Nigeria...


And yet 'exploration' continues even though we cannot afford to burn what fossil fuels we have already! This following example would require extraction that looks to be even more painful and costly to us all than the Canadian abomination:


'Major' coal find under Firth of Forth

... plans to build the UK's first deep offshore underground coal gasification (UGC) plant...

... environmental group WWF Scotland said the move was "irresponsible" and should be "a complete non-starter"...

... WWF Scotland director Lang Banks said: "We need to see Scotland and the rest of the UK move toward an electricity system that is largely free of polluting fossil fuels.

"Plans to 'burn' coal under the Firth of Forth will not deliver that aim and should therefore be a complete non-starter. "In a worst case scenario, proposals such as this one could even extend our use of fossil fuels, locking us into a high carbon world.

"Just over a week ago, scientists from the United Nations issued their latest predictions of the growing threat from global climate change and the need to be rapidly phasing out our use of fossil fuels.

"Since the developers themselves have admitted that carbon dioxide will be emitted by their plans, from a climate change perspective, this scheme is nothing short of irresponsible."


... So, too difficult to dig it up, so what the hell, go and burn it anyhow for hell both above and below our earth... Is that a good one for the Stupid or Not Stupid thread?...


All of that is all connected. Deny that is all recklessly insane?...


All on the only one planet we live on,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Let's look into an alarmist headline and expose the utter BS behind it .....

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/11/climate-change-means-more-lightning

The US Will See 50 Percent More Lightning Strikes, Thanks to Global Warming
Lightning strikes in the continental United States will increase roughly 12 percent for every degree Celsius of global warming, a study published today in Science finds.

Okay, 50% / 12% per degree C means that by 2100 it will be 4.2°C warmer.

Now what is the prediction? .....
http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/spmsspm-projections-of.html

For the next two decades, a warming of about 0.2°C per decade is projected

So we have 8.5 decades to go to 2100 at 0.2°C or 1.7°C.

1.7°C <> 4.2°C is it? 4.2°C is 2.5 times the actual prediction!

Another filthy warmist lie exposed!

Why would a warmist feel the need to lie?
1) Most obvious, they don't believe what they espouse? <that is kind of the definition of lying>
2) They need to lie to get press (publicity stunt)?
3) Only lying will convince people to fund them?
4) Henny Penny cry Wolf need for attention?
5) ... you fill in you favorite set of reasons.

---

Let's look into an alarmist headline and expose the utter BS behind it .....

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/11/climate-change-means-more-lightning

The US Will See 50 Percent More Lightning Strikes, Thanks to Global Warming
Lightning strikes in the continental United States will increase roughly 12 percent for every degree Celsius of global warming, a study published today in Science finds.

Okay, 50% / 12% per degree C means that by 2100 it will be 4.2°C warmer.

Now what is the prediction? .....
http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/spmsspm-projections-of.html

For the next two decades, a warming of about 0.2°C per decade is projected

So we have 8.5 decades to go to 2100 at 0.2°C or 1.7°C.

1.7°C <> 4.2°C is it? 4.2°C is 2.5 times the actual prediction!

Another filthy warmist lie exposed!

Why would a warmist feel the need to lie?
1) Most obvious, they don't believe what they espouse? <that is kind of the definition of lying>
2) They need to lie to get press (publicity stunt)?
3) Only lying will convince people to fund them?
4) Henny Penny cry Wolf need for attention?
5) ... you fill in you favorite set of reasons.

Ohhhh.... *gaze in wide-eyed wonder* I see what you did there :)

Just read the words written in BIG letters... then flame them with 7 year old data.

Inspired! :) It saves so much time!

Shame really - was quite an interesting article I thought - careful to explain some of the difficulties in making estimates... using terms like "If warming continues unchecked" and stuff like that... but that's just my initial impression from reading the smaller letters aaaaalllll the way down to the bottom :)

Nice chat though, as always :)

edit: oh, and thank you for finding the article and posting it for us :) I will be giving it a lot of thought and much more study :)

Just read the words written in BIG letters... then flame them with 7 year old data.

Oh, so I should flame you that climate science isn't settled and the data changes every time to fit the new hot button?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPCC_Fifth_Assessment_Report

The global surface temperature increase by the end of the 21st century is likely to exceed 1.5 °C relative to the 1850 to 1900 period for most scenarios

Why you are right, the data changes, now instead of 1.7°C it is down to 1.5°C. So the 4.2°C is now 2.8 times, not 2.5 times the predicted amount. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

BTW, you missed the point. Motherjones are the people who uttered the big words. Which I heard on the local news station and others. Finding who actually first wrote them may be hard in this day of news scoop and internet speed of distribution of not fact checked stories.

The question is still valid though.

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OH LIGHTNING STRIKES, WHERE ARE YOU? I See Car 54(Damn Fossil Fuel POShat-Cough Cough Blech), Oh Lightning Strike. HIT ME with your BEST SHOT. FIRE AWAAAAAY!

HOHUM. Another Scare Tactic, Slowly Drifts Away To The Beat of My DRum DRum.
Maybe in Another 50 Years. I Can Wait. Been Here fO 400 so far and The O2 and CO2 'is' 'as' Tasty As Ever.

' '

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Just read the words written in BIG letters... then flame them with 7 year old data.

Oh, so I should flame you that climate science isn't settled and the data changes every time to fit the new hot button?

Not without saying hello first I hope :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPCC_Fifth_Assessment_Report

The global surface temperature increase by the end of the 21st century is likely to exceed 1.5 °C relative to the 1850 to 1900 period for most scenarios

Why you are right, the data changes, now instead of 1.7°C it is down to 1.5°C. So the 4.2°C is now 2.8 times, not 2.5 times the predicted amount. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

My pleasure :)

BTW, you missed the point.

Did I? Where?

Motherjones are the people who uttered the big words. Which I heard on the local news station and others. Finding who actually first wrote them may be hard in this day of news scoop and internet speed of distribution of not fact checked stories.

There? ^ Oh.

I'm sorry :( I got quite interested in the article whilst I was reading it and the report that generated it.

(Here's the abstract:

Lightning plays an important role in atmospheric chemistry and in the initiation of wildfires, but the impact of global warming on lightning rates is poorly constrained. Here we propose that the lightning flash rate is proportional to the convective available potential energy (CAPE) times the precipitation rate. Using observations, the product of CAPE and precipitation explains 77% of the variance in the time series of total cloud-to-ground lightning flashes over the contiguous United States (CONUS). Storms convert CAPE times precipitated water mass to discharged lightning energy with an efficiency of 1%. When this proxy is applied to 11 climate models, CONUS lightning strikes are predicted to increase 12 ± 5% per degree Celsius of global warming and about 50% over this century.

Must've distracted me from your point somewhat... and then the way your point started with yet another reference to erm... dung... which is always very distracting... you know... what with knowing where to place your feet...

So again - my apologies for leaping into it so emphatically :) although I did think I made the point at some point that I was giving my initial impression... I thought... but maybe that didn't come across... :)

My very earliest memories are fleeing from bushfires sparked by lightning strikes... then picking my way through the aftermath of dead and dying animals :( It kind of makes me interested in studies such as the one your post led me to, so I won't apologise for that :)

The question is still valid though.

All the questions are surely? :)


edit: While I'm here, I meant to ask you, I have no gift for lucid exposition (who used to be Dull) where you got this info from mentioned in this post:

Kali Study Says: 28K of Sweet Little and Big Birdies WILL BE FRIED, a year, by 800 Degreee Heeeat, 'cause The Birdies Think The Mirrors Are Water.

'Course, another study says Only 1K a year Fried.

:(

I found the second one you refer to (I think) but haven't located the first yet :( It would be useful to compare the two I thought...

Thank you :)

looks like you missed the facts about Gw and CO2 Gary simple maths mate

CO2 increasing at at 2.6 ppm per year at the moment this will double in just 20 years buy the time it is 2100 the CO2 level will be at the danger point

so high school maths says

current co2 level is 398 ppm +2.6 per year

2.6 x 85 years = 221 + 398 = 619 by the year 2100

and this does not include the increases that will happen in CO2 output in the next 85 years

It took 12,000 yrs to increase from aprox 185 ppm to 225 but only took 200 years to go from 225 to 398 and it will take only 85 years to go up what nature took 12,000 years and primitive man's burning bush took .

Na we don't have to worry

Glad i'll be dead by the time in gets real bad

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Mathlete said:

so high school maths says ...current co2 level is 398 ppm +2.6 per year ...2.6 x 85 years = 221 + 398 = 619 by the year 2100 ...and this does not include the increases that will happen in CO2 output in the next 85 years

And The Above Math 'is' What GCC Scientists Use in Their Everyday Calcs to SHOW THE WORLD We Need To Worry?

Man 'O Live, No Wonder, GCC Predicts, Constantly are Revised.

Hooba.

' '

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Gooba Gaba go to this web site seeing as your so stupid not to understand simple math and do the math yourself

https://scripps.ucsd.edu/programs/keelingcurve/

and once you have looked at it show me your not a stupid man by disproving the data

Edit waiting with anticipation on your next dumdass comment

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