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Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: DENIAL (#3)
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The Simonator Send message Joined: 18 Nov 04 Posts: 5700 Credit: 3,855,702 RAC: 50 |
In the area where i currently live it means 15 year old with less than three kids. Evidently i was looking for too deep a layer of meaning. Alaska is cold, so a freezer franchise has limited viability, but the Virgin islands aren't full of virgins. I was expecting more than just a pun. Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge. |
William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4 |
I was expecting more than just a pun. Well, since a Pun is the lowest form of Humor--I apologize profusely. |
PJ Send message Joined: 30 Jun 14 Posts: 127 Credit: 774,387 RAC: 0 |
Sarcasm is the lowest form of humor from the 'highest form of intelligence' Who's planting trees to help carbon capture? ;o) I'm not a complete idiot, but, I'm working on it. I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20283 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
I was expecting more than just a pun. Would a Pu-ti-n do? He's by far one of the worst offenders for promoting world destructive pollution... Unfortunately, that's no joke :-( All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
anniet Send message Joined: 2 Feb 14 Posts: 7105 Credit: 1,577,368 RAC: 75 |
Hiya Anniet! Yay! :) You're still talking to me :) even though I've been SOOOO slow responding :/ for which I apologise. To answer your questions (though perhaps not in the order you asked them)... Thank you :) Still as clear as a mud but I kind of get it - weirdly :) As to your concern that: Okay. I have muzzled the anniet that get's all hot and bothered at the mention of *grumpy face* BP *even grumpier face* for whom Dr Koonin used to work... and without the former, bleating away suspiciously in my head, I certainly agree that the fracas between the rabids is definitely counter-productive :( Continuing research IS a must... but NOT of the kind that wafts an odour similar to the "gifts" my dog used to leave under my washing line for me to tread in - although I do miss them now he's gone :( I'm frankly tired of "good news everyone! There's nothing to worry about" ... only to find out who paid for the good news is beyond iffy and their "data" so selectively skewed and self-serving *attempt dainty screwing up of nose* *fail* *continue whilst resembling a pug* I think it's probably terms like "sensible public policy" and how open they are to interpretations once in the hands of politicians (and those who are paying the most to hold onto their ears at any given time) which leaves me uneasy - much like the last UN summit on Climate change did, which left me wondering why they bothered having one at all :/ Whilst it can be argued that fingers could be pointed at both sides of this debate... the side with the biggest amount to lose (other than ourselves if they win) is without doubt, the fossil fuel industry. They have already counted their unpumped, unfracked, unpiped, unmined "assets" as future income. It holds up their share prices and feeds them the promise of shareholders and profits for so many more decades to come... AND guarantees their subsidies and taxbreaks too... and when you get an animal as powerful as that one is with it's back against the wall - it will use ANY means at it's disposal to shred what stands between it and the freedom to continue doing what it does best, making money with no regard to the consequences :( Their ability to field us "experts in undermining" "wolves in sheep's clothing" and "masters of manipulation" is part of a very well-funded propaganda machine that plays up uncertainties and twists open-ended waivers... so I do apologise if my initial reservations about Dr Koonin (in the absence of having the time to fully check him out) have been misplaced :) His recent tendency towards job-flitting and his oil industry pedigree, should not detract from his desire for caution, and the following extract you kindly posted for us does seem to back that up. Thank you :) One of Dr. Koonin's papers (Dr. Koonin convened the study and was one of the two lead authors) on the subject of climate: Somewhat risky? *sudden emphatic lie down* Stratospheric aerosol injection? You're not kidding! *big goggly eyes* so um... what do we do for the next decade whilst they work on that one... carry on as we are, or as we were... in a big burning bonfire frenzy with the promise that every once in a while we'll give our atmosphere a big injection to cure it of its ills? Erm... You don't think I was being a bit hasty using the term "his desire for caution" do you? :) It's just... without my permission, my brain wandered off into thinking about who would benefit the most from such a research study... and came over all suspicious again. I hope you'll forgive me, MK, because I am muzzling as I type... but when I popped The Novim Group into Source Watch... it threw me a link to the Koch Family Foundation. (Did you know they donate money to something called the Environmental Science Independent Peer Review Institute? I didn't.) Anyway... you'll be relieved to know I couldn't find out WHY my window got so suddenly polluted (although there is a LOT of reading matter in there and I didn't have a peg handy for my nose to endure a lengthy wade so I didn't get far into the cesspit) but I am happy to put it down to being just a glitch... for the moment... The sad fact is... we may well need people like Dr Koonin and his associates to be doing some responsible brainstorming IN CASE... but I sincerely hope there is no one out there who sees it as a viable alternative to reducing the harm we're doing to every environmental realm that life inhabits on this planet today. 1. is not desired because we might all cook. So whilst that get's worked out by our prevarication-free boffins :) there should be nothing stopping us cleaning up the rest of our polluting act in the meantime. Yay! :) Thanks for the post MK! :) |
Julie Send message Joined: 28 Oct 09 Posts: 34053 Credit: 18,883,157 RAC: 18 |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20283 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... So whilst that get's worked out by our prevarication-free boffins :) there should be nothing stopping us cleaning up the rest of our polluting act in the meantime. Yay! :) And thanks Anniet for a very good reply! Far far more sweetly put than I could put considering the Fossils-fueled unwholesome selfish foul stench of corruption being forced upon us all. Amazing how the Fossils sponsored Marketing and 'lobbying' is so good that it grabs so many gullible people to follow along! Or is it something like how hydrogen sulphide gently smells like rotten eggs until the stench builds to get so strong that you then lose your senses and then a little more then kills you? Note for the nay-sayers and disbelievers and denialists: Note how that happens at around a mere 300–350 ppm. By random coincidence, about the same level of concern as we have for industrial CO2 pollution pushing us 'over the edge'... Anniet, thanks again for your extreme patience and restrained eloquence! Even so, will the Denialists really see what is happening around them? Or are they forever doomed to their greed and Marketing and determined to drag everyone else to hell? We have an easy way and a hard way for all of this... Hopefully OUR politicians are not so corrupt as to make all this silly hard... All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Julie Send message Joined: 28 Oct 09 Posts: 34053 Credit: 18,883,157 RAC: 18 |
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Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30649 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Martin... Maybe these three simple yes or no questions will help you clear things up. Major, Noticed Martin hasn't answered. Unfortunately expected. It appears he isn't interested in any discussion. |
MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes Send message Joined: 16 Jun 02 Posts: 6895 Credit: 6,588,977 RAC: 0 |
Far far more sweetly put than I could put considering the Fossils-fueled unwholesome selfish foul stench of corruption being forced upon us all. Oh! Look wat 'Fossils-fueled unwholesome selfish foul stench of corruption being forced upon' has done to ME! My Complextion-ARGH! I've bought ALL The Creams and still look! GOD AWFUL! Sweet Jesus help me. I Haven't Had a Date In Years! I can't Go Anywheres Lookin' like this! Damn You Fossil Fuels, DAMN YOU! May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!! |
KWSN - MajorKong Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0 |
Martin... Maybe these three simple yes or no questions will help you clear things up. Yes, I noticed. For quite some time, Martin has been telling others that there is a problem, but there is an easy fix, and resoundingly condemning the 'Deniers' that are effectively keeping their head in the sand. Now, when I say 'yes Martin, there IS a problem (as you have been saying), but it is WORSE than you thought, and there is NO easy fix.' he has a conniption, and calls me a Denier. Go figure. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20283 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... Now, when I say 'yes Martin, there IS a problem (as you have been saying), but it is WORSE than you thought, and there is NO easy fix.' he has a conniption, and calls me a Denier. Go figure. Wow, how the MajorKong and Gary doth cackle and tripe! So all your arguments thus far are doomed and dust and so you must now resort to the last resort old argument that we are all doomed in any case?... Yer got no backbone to wish to enjoy the world around you and to strive to continue to enjoy our blue and green pleasant only one planet? There is indeed the Gary option to pollute at the same levels as we do at present and to save the world by selfishly 'reducing' the population to lazily reduce pollution. We also already have the option to live better and cleaner. The next pollution problem to solve next will indeed likely be to improve the culture and education for everyone to remove the need for continued growth until destruction... We have a way to go. Ideas other than DOOM welcomed to overcome the various selfish corruption plaguing the planet... It is the only planet we have... Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30649 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Now, when I say 'yes Martin, there IS a problem (as you have been saying), but it is WORSE than you thought, and there is NO easy fix.' he has a conniption, and calls me a Denier. Go figure. Yes, he is in total denial. I guess the saying it takes one to know one is 100% accurate in his case. He has no concept of what the cuts he advocates will require. No concept that more than 50% of the world's population will be out of their present job if his cuts are implemented. How much work with human muscle will be required to farm the plot he will have to tend himself to get his food when it can't be shipped half way around the globe. How 50% of the population of the planet will have to move from where they live to a different home so they can grow their food. His issue is the one that affects many; that micro-projects scale into mega-projects without any issue or disruption. You and I know that there is massive engineering needed to go from the lab to the real world and about 75% of the time it fails or has to await other inventions. We might ask him how well the biosphere experiment worked. Ask him if they had good science behind it. That they had a 100% understanding of the entire system. After all he is asking us to do this on a planet wide basis. But we know he won't answer. If he did, honestly, it would burst his bubble. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20283 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... No concept that more than 50% of the world's population will be out of their present job if his cuts are implemented. How much work with human muscle will be required to farm the plot... You sound like you are really enjoying yourself with the scaremongering! There is the more realistic consideration that without the parasitic subsidies and pollution of the Fossils Fuels, and without the environmental damage from the big Agribusiness bad practices, we would all profit from greater healthier efficiencies. Note that most of the first "going green" tech is all about replacing our existing dirty tech with similarly capable tech that doesn't cost us our own planet. Might that be why the Fossils are playing so foul and putrid dirty with their FUD and dirty tricks. Or are you enjoying that as fun also? ... After all he is asking us to do this on a planet wide basis... After all, we are all suffering the existing pollution on a planet-wide basis... Can we try better? There is a great deal of scope yet! All still on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30649 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
... No concept that more than 50% of the world's population will be out of their present job if his cuts are implemented. How much work with human muscle will be required to farm the plot... FYI wiki wrote: Agriculture in the United Kingdom uses around 70% of the country's land area .... The UK produces less than 60% of the food it eats. I guess you could stand to lose a little weight. Martin, just once use your brain. The problem is far worse that a little 5% CO2 haircut will solve. I know you want to do that, wave your hands and claim it is fixed and run off to the next thing to save. Unfortunately that attitude is one of the major problems that must be solved before we can honestly tackle AGW. The Manhattan Project was a cakewalk compared to this issue. |
Julie Send message Joined: 28 Oct 09 Posts: 34053 Credit: 18,883,157 RAC: 18 |
:( I'm so ashamed right now. Our ecological footprint is bigger than the one from the USA... Woke up with this news this morning. The main cause is our overconsumption of energy... We (in general) consume more resources than the world produces. Pretty soon, it's over here for us, folks... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ecological_footprint rOZZ Music Pictures |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20283 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
FYI Or just cut down on the (farming energy and land use very expensive) meat and also kill the Big Agribusiness monopoly. Shame there's the little blockage there of the words Monopoly and Money controlled by the present few regardless of the wider costs and damage. (Also note how it ain't the farmers who are rich or are wantonly doing damage.) ... just once use your brain. The problem is far worse that a little 5% CO2 haircut will solve... Indeed so. We have the kamikaze blockage of existing Big Business and corruptly lobbied politics to overcome... After that, saving the planet for our present population is relatively easy with existing tech. The next race is then to keep the politics and business and population stable and sustainable. All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
KWSN - MajorKong Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0 |
FYI Martin, I see you are making progress in stopping your Denial. You are admitting that more than just Fossil Fuel use leads to AGW. Good job! I think that you will find that GHG emissions from agriculture are quite a bit more pervasive than just meat and 'Big Agribusiness', though, if you study the situation with an open mind. I still think you are mistaken in your statement that a solution is easily done with existing tech while preserving our current population level. Yes, we can START the solution now, but existing tech falls short of a complete solution without a drastic population reduction AND a drastic reduction in EVERYONE's quality of life and standard of living. Sorry, but we can not have a 'sustainable' population at its current level. Should we phase out fossil fuel use as rapidly as possible and replace it with wind/solar/etc.? Yes, absolutely! But it won't be enough to STOP AGW. Slow it down, sure! But stop it? No. I am pleased that you are making progress in expanding your rather narrow viewpoint. |
MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes Send message Joined: 16 Jun 02 Posts: 6895 Credit: 6,588,977 RAC: 0 |
Should we phase out fossil fuel use as rapidly as possible and replace it Geezy Peezy. Again. The 2nd Law of Thermo-Dynamics Will Not Allow HuWoMan to 'Rapidly Change' due to 'Climate Change' or Any Other Energy Disorder. Fossil Fuels Will Reign Almighty fO A Long Time To Come. Unless, The Gubment releases The Alien Technologies, 'They' have been 'Hiding' fO So Long. heeeheeeheeeETsaysHeeeHeeeHeee. Got ET? No? Then Deal wif da situation Until 'it' 'Changes'. Slowly. Dr. HO HUM will Be Waiting Patiently at His Retreat in Rapi Nui 'till 'then'. Mmmm Mmmm. Dat CO2 is Mighty Tasty Today. And Dat O2 is Just Right. Yummm. ' ' May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!! |
Julie Send message Joined: 28 Oct 09 Posts: 34053 Credit: 18,883,157 RAC: 18 |
Should we phase out fossil fuel use as rapidly as possible and replace it Now that's what I call Seti poetry! (or something...feel free to discuss:) rOZZ Music Pictures |
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