Notes:

Earliest recorded snowfall ever in Colorado.

Arctic ice sheet expansion twice the size of Alaska;

Que Pasa ??

I want my money back on my carbon offset purchases.

Say what ??? Arctic ice sheet expansion twice the size of Alaska . Where you getting your info from .?

The Arctic summer of 2014 is nearing an end. Overall, the rate of ice loss during August was near average. Regions of low concentration ice remain in the Beaufort and East Siberian seas that may yet melt out or compress by wind action. While the Northwest Passage continues to be clogged with ice and is unlikely to open, the Northern Sea Route along the Siberian coasts appears open except for some ice around Severnaya Zemlya.

for the full story go to the web site .

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

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Since there are too many studies and articles to list--Do a google search on: Arctic ice cap expanding" and you will see what I am talking about.

Feel free to rebut any of these if you have other authoritive information.

well i did that

first link is the link i put up

2nd daily mail =b/s
3rd " " =b/s
4th Skeptical Science =b/s
5th nation.foxnews.com Rupert Murdoch say no more
6th dailycaller.com garbage

will look no more all skeptic site by known skeptic's and dailymail give me a break

you make the same mistake as a lot of people 1 or 2 years is not a trend but i guess you forgot you just had 1 of the worst winter in a long time , or do you think the snow only fell on the U.S.A and Canada and missed the Arctic ......
and still it is near the low average of 1981-2010

Despite the near-average rate of decline in ice extent through the month, August 2014 ended up with the 7th lowest extent in the satellite record. It is 1.51 million square kilometers (583,000 square miles) above the record low for August 2012 and is also higher than August of 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, and 2013. The monthly linear rate of decline for August over the satellite record is now 10.3 percent per decade.

and the last piece is from the link i put up . i would surgest you only look at the real sites and not crap news from places like FOX or Dailymail . Rupert Murdoch is a known skeptic

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There 'is' No Real Info. No Real Facts. No Real Evidence.

There 'is' Only Agenda. The Agenda of 'In My Own Mind' Truth.

Deniers Are In Control.

Warmers are Crying.

Sweetness.

' '

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

well i did that

first link is the link i put up

2nd daily mail =b/s
3rd " " =b/s
4th Skeptical Science =b/s
5th nation.foxnews.com Rupert Murdoch say no more
6th dailycaller.com garbage

will look no more all skeptic site by known skeptic's and dailymail give me a break

you make the same mistake as a lot of people 1 or 2 years is not a trend but i guess you forgot you just had 1 of the worst winter in a long time , or do you think the snow only fell on the U.S.A and Canada and missed the Arctic ......
and still it is near the low average of 1981-2010

Despite the near-average rate of decline in ice extent through the month, August 2014 ended up with the 7th lowest extent in the satellite record. It is 1.51 million square kilometers (583,000 square miles) above the record low for August 2012 and is also higher than August of 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, and 2013. The monthly linear rate of decline for August over the satellite record is now 10.3 percent per decade.

and the last piece is from the link i put up . i would surgest you only look at the real sites and not crap news from places like FOX or Dailymail . Rupert Murdoch is a known skeptic

Glenn,

I agree you get a lot of junk from google searches.

However, don't be so quick to poopoo things.

Here is a link I found in just a couple of minutes searching...


http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/CryoSat/Arctic_sea_ice_up_from_record_low

The fsckin European Space Agency no less... you gonna call B.S. on THEM?

Yes, the data is from Oct. 2013, almost a year old, but October is when they take the measurement. We will see what it does in a couple of months.

but for now...

The volume of ice measured this autumn is about 50% higher compared to last year.

In October 2013, CryoSat measured about 9000 cubic km of sea ice – a notable increase compared to 6000 cubic km in October 2012.

and

About 90% of the increase is due to growth of multiyear ice – which survives through more than one summer without melting – with only 10% growth of first year ice. Thick, multiyear ice indicates healthy Arctic sea-ice cover.

This year’s multiyear ice is now on average about 20%, or around 30 cm, thicker than last year.

Glenn, don't be so quick to poo-poo what other people say unless you are SURE it is wrong, and you can't be SURE unless you search the primary sources, not the bloody news media.

KWSN - MajorKong

Thank you for the link i will check it out . I don't mind sensible links like ESA .I will add it to my list if it is worth it .

However i refer you to my statement

you make the same mistake as a lot of people 1 or 2 years is not a trend but i guess you forgot you just had 1 of the worst winter in a long time , or do you think the snow only fell on the U.S.A and Canada and missed the Arctic ......

1 or 2 years does not make a trend and this can be attributed to the polar Vortex i believe it is called , moving and this it why you had a very cold winter last year . What caused it to move !

I do not look at skeptic sites or news services . As there is no need if you go to the right sites like N.A.S.A , N.O.A.A , Scripps, and as you say E.S.A .

Deniers are to quick to jump on anything that they think will prove them right and they use misinformation to convince people that they are right when in fact they are not .

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KWSN - MajorKong

I have just read the article and i noticed this ...

It’s estimated that there was around 20 000 cubic kilometres of Arctic sea ice each October in the early 1980s, and so today’s minimum still ranks among the lowest of the past 30 years,” said Professor Andrew Shepherd from University College London, a co-author of the study.

So please read carefully what is said and don't listen to the extremist deniers

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Just so the Deniers can check there B/S info here are some of the links i use , you will notice they are all legit sites not skeptic or news services .

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

http://www.whoi.edu/

http://climate.nasa.gov/key_indicators/

http://sealevel.jpl.nasa.gov/science/elninopdo/latestdata/

http://eyes.nasa.gov/earth/index.html

http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/qthinice.asp

http://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov

http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/sio-keel-flask/sio-keel-flaskmlo_c.html

http://aviationweather.gov/obs/sat/intl/

http://co2now.org/

http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/Products/ocean/sst/contour/index.html

http://www.weatherzone.com.au/climate/indicator_sst.jsp?lt=global&lc=global&c=ssta

the last one is just a weather site i use and this site supply's grahpic's to the major T.V channels and news service and has a very good reputation as being very acurate .It has very good graphic's for looking at the SST anomalie and the S.O.L (southern oscillation index) and NINO 3.4 index , if you don't know what they are or how important they are please look it up as it effects the weather in North America and Australia and is the first signs of droughts or floods .

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they are all legit

Dat Be Funny and Dat Says 'it' All.

Da Power Of 'Legit'. And Don't 'They' Know 'it'.

AGENDA.

Yep.

Sweetness

' '

---

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Dat Be Funny and Dat Says 'it' All.

Da Power Of 'Legit'. And Don't 'They' Know 'it'.

AGENDA.

Yep.

Oh ok so we should listen to Rupert Murdock and his news services then .
And the skeptic site set up to miss inform people don't have a agenda

Ok Gooba Gaba if you say so i'll listen .......not

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KWSN - MajorKong

I have just read the article and i noticed this ...

It’s estimated that there was around 20 000 cubic kilometres of Arctic sea ice each October in the early 1980s, and so today’s minimum still ranks among the lowest of the past 30 years,” said Professor Andrew Shepherd from University College London, a co-author of the study.

So please read carefully what is said and don't listen to the extremist deniers

Glenn,

You misunderstand me. Yes, I did read that article I posted. Yes, I did see that statement you quoted.

William Rothamel made a statement that the Arctic sea ice was growing.

You asked where he got his information.

His reply was to do a google search.

You did so, and got a few sites that you considered... questionable, so you stopped the search.

I stepped in and provided you a link from a source that you should have found acceptable (The European Space Agency's CryoSat program) that supported William's statement that the Arctic Sea Ice is growing.

I notice your use of the word 'skeptic'. You seem to equate 'skeptic' to 'denier' on at least this issue.

Skeptic:
noun

1. a person inclined to question or doubt all accepted opinions.
.
.
.

Under meaning 1 of its definition, I *AM* a skeptic. I seek proof.

I am a physicist. One of my original interests in science, when I was a small child, was climate. Why is it rain-forest in one place and desert in another? Rather than blindly accept what I was told, back in the mid 1960s I got ahold of a few textbooks and proceeded to study them. The first two were:
1. The Climates of the Continents (1942) by Kendrew
2. Climatology, General and Regional (1942) by Blair

Both still occupy a place of honor on my bookshelves today.

I want to know what happens, how it happens, and whenever possible why it happens.

Yes, the extremist deniers are bad. But so are the extremist proponents of Anthropogenic Climate Change due to emission of CO2 and other so-called 'Greenhouse Gasses' (GHGs). For want of a better short term, I call this bunch the 'Warmists'.

Don't worry, I am not a denier. I am not a Warmist either.

Is humanity causing climate change by reason of its activities? Yes, there is a fairly long list of human activities that cause climate change.

Is humanity emitting large quantities of CO2 into the air? Yes, they are.

Is this emitted CO2 leading to increasing CO2 concentrations in the air? Yes, it is.

Does CO2 gas absorb Infrared radiation at certain well defined wavelength bands? Yes it does, it also re-emits it rather quickly.

Is it reasonable to believe that this absorption of infrared has at least some small effect on climate? Yes, it is reasonable to think so.

Is this effect on climate large enough to be the disaster the Warmists claim? This we do not know.

Have some groups of scientists been caught altering data in a way that seems to favor Warmism, by lowering temperature data from the past and raising temperature data that is more recent? Yes they have.

The problem here is a rather unfortunate confluence of Politics, Economics, and Science. Too many vested interests lying on both sides of the issue. The scientists get caught up in it.

There is way too much uhh... 'Organic Fertilizer' flying around to make any reasonable sense of things. Its like a holy war. Most unfortunate.

I just don't think that most people that follow warmism really understand what the end result of that position would be. I have posted it before in one of the climate threads.

My own personal opinion is that we are likely having at least a small effect on climate by our emission of GHGs. How much of an effect, I don't know. Is it the extreme emergency that the Warmists claim? I don't know.

Also, humanity has a host of other problems. Problems that, in my opinion, rank a bit higher on the list of priorities than GHG-induced Anthropogenic climate change. Things like 'water' (recently mentioned here).

+many Major

Is humanity causing climate change by reason of its activities? Yes, there is a fairly long list of human activities that cause climate change.

Could those activities be the cause of the recent "temperature" changes? Unknown.

Temperature is in quotes because soot emission and subsequent deposition on ice does not cause air temperature change, but does change ice surface temperature change or melting rate which is being used as an indicator of air temperature. Also remember that the ice that is at the top today was laid down years ago and the soot at that layer came from that time in addition to today.


It is such a shame that the warmists label anyone who won't drink their koolaid as a denier; unfortunately warmism has become indistinguishable from a religious cult.

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It's really difficult to get unbiased information, someone is paying researchers to get 'results', researchers need to eat so have to make research somehow show what the customer wants.
As I've said before, there are lies, damned lies, and, statistics

It's really difficult to get unbiased information, someone is paying researchers to get 'results', researchers need to eat so have to make research somehow show what the customer wants.
As I've said before, there are lies, damned lies, and, statistics

Shame then for you that the real world physics have nothing to do with lies and statistics and overwhelmingly show that we are cooking our planet to a very rapid unnatural change.


We really have industrially pissed in our own bath for too much for too long.

How do human CO2 emissions compare to natural CO2 emissions?


All on our only one planet,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

& it doesn't help when those that lead have no clear precise plan in effect...

Atlantic array dropped

"RWE and other firms are complaining that energy has become a political football, with Labour trying to freeze prices and the Conservatives apparently dismissing renewables subsidies as "green crap".

The industry is angry that the government has asked it to invest £100bn renewing generating capacity in the UK, whilst creating political conditions which they say make that investment impossible."

European Commission concerned over Atlantic Array

I realise that those reports are a year old but they do highlight some of the issues involved...

..."Green Crap" will always be the excuse for those already making huge profits.

we are cooking our planet

Dat Be Funny.

Extreme Words from An Extremist.

'Is' AnyOne Paying Attention to These Extremists AnyMore?

No.

They Are Paying Attention to the Deniers.

GOALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

Feels GOoD To Be In The Winner's Circle.

fO shO

' '

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

we are cooking our planet

Dat Be Funny.

Extreme Words from An Extremist.

the planet is cooking. the planet is cooking.

the sky is falling. the sky is falling.

identical.

Keep stacking those chickens. Might eventually get them cooked!

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It's all normal planetary behavior, when things get bad enough a polar shift or some such will wipe everyone out - the rich probably can't look after themselves after their bunkers run out of food and water so it's only a matter of time before they realise something really was wrong with the 'greed is good' philosophy

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I'm not a complete idiot, but, I'm working on it.
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it

Major,

http://nypost.com/2014/09/14/leo-v-science-vanishing-evidence-for-climate-change/

Science is never settled, but the current state of “climate change” science is quite clear: There is essentially zero evidence that carbon dioxide from human activities is causing catastrophic climate change.

Yes, the “executive summary” of reports from the UN’s International Panel on Climate Change continues to sound the alarm — but the summary is written by the politicians. The scientific bulk of the report, while still tinged with improper advocacy, has all but thrown in the towel.

And the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change lists thousands of scientific papers that either debunk or cast serious doubt on the supposed “consensus” model.

Oregon-based physicist Gordon Fulks sums it up well: “CO2 is said to be responsible for global warming that is not occurring, for accelerated sea-level rise that is not occurring, for net glacial and sea ice melt that is not occurring . . . and for increasing extreme weather that is not occurring.”

Never heard anyone express it with the warmists own data.

Something is going on, but what, why and how are still unknown.

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