Past technologies have too often passed hidden costs on to the public for the sake of corporate profitability.

What has changed to corporate structure so that future technologies won't pass on hidden costs?

Not sure but i'm guessing that stricter environmental regulations, stiff penalties, and
accurate assessment of damages would have an effect on determining the profitability of future technologies.

Yes, it may make many of the wonder solutions over in the solutions thread unprofitable and unimplementable.

In general however, you have forgotten Citizens United. The people who write the regulations will be bought and the regulations will pass costs on, at least here in the USA.

There definitely is an argument to made for more regulation and stricter enforcement,..ie more government.

That deserves a thread by itself.

The lawsuits against the tobacco industry is but one example.

Yet another thread.

The nuclear power industry is another, where cost overruns and cleanups have too often been passed on to the public.

Many of those plants are not wholly investor owned, so who do you pass the cost onto? E.g. The Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station is 5.7% owned by the City of Los Angeles through the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power or the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station which is 1.8% owned by The City of Riverside Utilities Department. So quite rightly these costs are passed on to the public.

Beyond this, again another thread.

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martin as someone that used to work in the Lead industry i suspect the reason Exide have got away with it because one of the reason you add Arsenic to lead is to make Military grade lead for bullets otherwise the Arsenic is not normally a problem so i can only assume they made a lot of it.

But still throw the book at them if they did not have there system in a closed loop and did not do the reporting and checks they should have . i am temped to say something else but i won't

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Lovin' The COOL CO2, Pollution Induced Summer.

Bring 'It' On Dirty Fossils.

Sweetness

' '

---

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Breathe in----------breathe out

---

rOZZ
Music
Pictures

Lovin' The COOL CO2, Pollution Induced Summer.

Bring 'It' On Dirty Fossils.'

Until the next polar vortex freeze extreme...

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Lovin' The COOL CO2, Pollution Induced Summer.

Bring 'It' On Dirty Fossils.

Sweetness

' '

That is because climate change has shifted the path of the jet stream bringing unusual cooler weather down from the artic for some parts of the US while other parts are unusually hot.

However the dice tumble, its a mess.

---

Reality Internet Personality

Breathe in----------breathe out

Yeah, Got Dat Tune with RockSmith.

Till The Very Last Breath.

Into The Breach.

Fossil Me. Fossil Me REAL HARD

and Dirty.

Pollute Me.

Oh Yeah.

Sweetness

' '

---

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

And for yet another Biblical wet hit in quick succession:

Rain brings flash flooding to Cardiff area

Torrential downpours have brought flash flooding to several parts of Cardiff and surrounding areas, with a landslip halting trains between Radyr and Taffs Well for a time...

... According to the Met Office: "The public should be aware of the risk of localised surface water flooding, with the added hazard of lightning in some areas.

"An unstable and moist flow across southern parts of Britain will provide the basis for some intense showers through today, and with the winds lighter than recent days, these will last longer where they do occur, perhaps producing in excess of 30mm of rain in two or three hours in a few localities. ...

We really are getting unusual repeated deluges with such as this latest:


Clean-up under way after Cambridgeshire flash flooding

The clean-up operation is under way across Cambridgeshire, after torrential storms sparked power cuts and major disruption on the roads.

Electricity was restored by 22:40 BST on Friday to more than 1,400 homes, after about 2in (50mm) of rain fell across the county in an hour...

Sure enough, Scotland got hit also:

Parts of Scotland affected by ex-hurricane Bertha

Parts of Scotland have been badly hit by high winds and heavy rain in the wake of what was Hurricane Bertha.

The Scottish Environment Protection Agency (Sepa) has almost 40 flood warnings in place, covering Aberdeenshire, Speyside, Moray, Caithness and Sutherland, and Tayside. Moray Council said it was going to evacuate about 200 homes at risk of flooding in Elgin.

And ScotRail said train travel was being severely impacted by flooding...

... By early Monday morning, Lossiemouth had recorded almost a month's rainfall in 12 hours...

Has this ever happened before? Let's confine the answer to the last 1000 years.

What was the cause of the above?

[Good strong squealy Scottish drawn out drawl:]

Weeeeeeeeellllllll... Ya seeeeeee...


Emergency funding for Scottish flood damage

... Elgin's £86m flood alleviation scheme was put to the test on Monday when the area was hit by the remnants of Hurricane Bertha. But 200 homes were evacuated over fears the River Lossie would burst its banks where the project is not completed.

Properties in parts of Aberdeenshire were also evacuated as the water level rose...

... One of the most photographed landmarks during the height of Monday's flooding was the Old Bridge of Carr at Carrbridge, a village near Aviemore.

Kumaran Krishnan photographed the crossing two days earlier and said the scene at that time was "serene"... [And later there looks to be a 4metres high raging torrent]...

Torrential rain brought by ex-Hurricane Bertha caused the wettest day of the year so far, with Fair Isle in Shetland seeing 132.6mm of rain between 10:00 on Saturday and 10:00 on Monday - almost double the 70.3mm full-month average for August.

Lossiemouth in Moray was deluged with 100mm of rain during the same time, despite a full-month average of 61.9mm...


So... That's nearly twice the monthly average in a series of heavy downpours over just two days.

The source for this example is the remnants of a hurricane whipped across the Atlantic by an unusually persistently placed jet stream. Add to that the storm intensified rather than dissipated. That doesn't happen for our more usual conditions...


As always, a one off event like this cannot lay blame for anything regarding climate. However, note that if our climate was steady, over your 1000 year period you would expect to have all the freak weather records broken early on to then see the records hold untouched thereafter. (All the typical weather extremes will have already been noted early on if the weather is not getting any more extreme.)

Instead, in recent years we are getting the records for "freak/extreme/unusual weather" steadily repeatedly broken into ever greater extremes.

Something is clearly changing...

And the physics clearly show that a higher concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere leads to warming of the lower atmosphere and from that a greater uptake of water vapour can be expected and from that extra water going up, you get extra water being rained out over a few days cycle.


And the isotope mark of most of that extra proportion of CO2 in our atmosphere is all man-made industrial pollution. Yet more of the extra CO2 is from our farming and environmental destruction.


The pattern looks that we might not be getting any additional storms, but the ones we do get are ever more intense and because of that they are more often noteworthy.

All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

And for yet another Biblical wet hit in quick succession:

And Enviro Climate Change Agentizers are Hitting All Sources with Their Pro Presenting, Marketing and Selling of 'Change
You Can't Believe In' Climate BS.

Something is clearly changing...

Yeah, EnviroExtremeists have Learned The 'Game' from The Masters. The Game Of Deceit for Their Own Profits.

Sell Sell Sell

Get Dat Message to Da Masses.

Believe In The Change.

The Change from Enviromentalists to Snake Oil SalesPeople.

' '

---

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Exide just got dirtier ...
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/813781/000081378114000006/fy2015q1-20140630.htm#sEDA7F7C84D63CDE15910E1D9A5E333F1

On August 8, 2014, the Company received a grand jury subpoena from the Department of Justice in the Central District of California in connection with a criminal investigation involving its Vernon, California recycling facility. The subpoena requests the production of documents relating to materials transportation and air emissions. The Company was informed that it and certain unidentified individuals are targets of the investigation. The Company will cooperate with the investigation. We cannot estimate the amount or range of loss, if any, in this matter, as such analysis would depend on facts and law that are not yet fully developed or resolved.

---

Breathe in----------breathe out

Yeah, Got Dat Tune with RockSmith.

Till The Very Last Breath.

Into The Breach.

Fossil Me. Fossil Me REAL HARD

and Dirty.

Pollute Me.

Oh Yeah.

Sweetness

' '

Really not that much of an optimistic person ey Dull? Well, it's your right...

---

rOZZ
Music
Pictures

Really not that much of an optimistic person ey Dull? Well, it's your right...

As Francis E. Urquhart says repeatedly in H. O. C. B B C Ver.:

You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

And As In The Series Mentioned, The Bodies Piled Up All Around Good 'Ole Francis, until His Final Demise by B U L L E T.

The Sun Gonna Come Up Tomorrow. Bet Your Bottom Dollar, The Sun Comes Up Tomorrow.

And SHINES ON THE EVIL WROUGHT by HuWoMans(Definition: Instead of saying Human Species, Homo Sapiens Sapiens, ManKind, or Man, I Say HuWoMans. Hu=Human Wo=Woman/Women Mans=Men/Man. Dig?

I Knew Dat You Could.

On Topic. I Deny The Demise of The World, Extremistly Portrayed by The Warmists. This Beautiful World will Continue On, Beautifully.

I Deny Extreme Climate Change Views.

Fossils Forever More.

Drill Baby Drill.

I Love The Smell of Frakking Fluids in da Morning, Noon, and Night.

' '

---

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

HuWoMans(Definition: Instead of saying Human Species, Homo Sapiens Sapiens, ManKind, or Man, I Say HuWoMans. Hu=Human Wo=Woman/Women Mans=Men/Man. Dig?

Thanx for clarifying Dull:)

---

rOZZ
Music
Pictures

I Love The Smell of Frakking Fluids in da Morning, Noon, and Night.

' '

Aaaah... nothing like Flappng Our Arms, Wiggling Our Butts and Doing The Dolphin :) whilst setting light to the water coming out of our faucets (taps) is there...

Something very visible that cannot be denied:


Global warming is moistening the atmosphere

Human-caused global warming is causing the upper troposphere to become wetter.

We have long suspected that greenhouse gases which cause the Earth to warm would lead to a wetter atmosphere. The latest research published by Eul-Seok Chung, Brian Soden, and colleagues provides new insight into what was thought to be an old problem. In doing so, they experimentally verified what climate models have been predicting. The models got it right… again.

To be clear, this paper does not prove that water vapor is a greenhouse gas. We have known that for years. Nevertheless, the paper make a very nice contribution. The authors show that the long-term increase in water vapor in the upper troposphere cannot have resulted from natural causes – it is clearly human caused...


That effect is becoming ever more noticeable with the ever increasing expansion of noctilucent clouds... There are still a few connections to be made by the circumstances look to be much more than coincidence.

A wetter upper troposphere will have ever increasing consequences for everything lower down...


AND YET!

Facts can convince conservatives about global warming – sometimes

... when they understand climate basics, some conservatives are more likely to accept that climate change is happening...

... While there’s a 97% consensus among climate science experts and their research that humans are causing climate change, only about 67% of Americans believe global warming is even happening, including 25% of Tea Party members and 61% of other Republicans. Only about half of Americans realize that humans are causing global warming.

Social scientists have been investigating this disconnect between the evidence and expert consensus, and public opinion...




So what does it take? Another demonstration by King Canute?...

Or do we have to wait until too late and all has been washed away to oblivion?


All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Today the Greens party came out and said renewables have won the economic race and coal fired power plants are having big problems competing with renewables in Australia .

However the big coal and gas lobby has lobby'd Tony Abbot to drop the carbon reduction limit and to not support the renewable industry and while there at it dump 3 million tons of waste on the great barrier reef

Great one DUMB DUMB Abbot makes Australia look real great on the international stage we are open for business but only if your dirty oil , coal , gas otherwise don not apply we are closed

---

The number 1 climate denier in Australia Dumb Dumb , Tony Abbot says "Australia is open for business " to show how he is going to make this easyer he is going to have a 1 stop shop for enviromental approveals

Just pay a small fee and you can walk out of the shop with anything you want.

Big hole in the ground 5 miles wide 3/4 of mile deep no Wucking Furry's mate
that will be $10,000 thank you

poison the ground water ?

Freaking coal for gas !..no wuckking furry's mate
that will be $5,000 there's a premium on keeping the population down mate got to thin out all them pensioners we got a ageing population

Kill the Reef ?

We think there's oil and we need the shipping lanes and a few harbor's ! ...no worry's bro that will be $1,000 the reef was going to die anyway ! Climate change coral bleaching and all that

Australia is open for business we have a budget crisis and need your money to fix the budget

A real Denier Tony Abbot deny Climate change , pollution , that we should have poor people a real Road Scholer

---

And another one... Unfortunately deadly:


Japan landslides kill 32 in Hiroshima prefecture

... triggered after the equivalent of a month's rain fell in the 24 hours up to Wednesday morning, Japan's weather agency said. Images from the scene showed houses buried in mud and rocks...

... A university professor in Hiroshima, JJ Walsh, told the BBC that everyone was surprised by the scale of the storm. "Most people here are used to heavy rain. We have a rainy season. But I think everybody was pretty caught off guard by how much rain it was,"...


An increasingly frequent pattern?...


As already noted:

And for yet another Biblical wet hit in quick succession:

Rain brings flash flooding to Cardiff area

Torrential downpours have brought flash flooding to several parts of Cardiff and surrounding areas, with a landslip halting trains between Radyr and Taffs Well for a time...

... According to the Met Office: "The public should be aware of the risk of localised surface water flooding, with the added hazard of lightning in some areas.

"An unstable and moist flow across southern parts of Britain will provide the basis for some intense showers through today, and with the winds lighter than recent days, these will last longer where they do occur, perhaps producing in excess of 30mm of rain in two or three hours in a few localities. ...

We really are getting unusual repeated deluges with such as this latest:


Clean-up under way after Cambridgeshire flash flooding

The clean-up operation is under way across Cambridgeshire, after torrential storms sparked power cuts and major disruption on the roads.

Electricity was restored by 22:40 BST on Friday to more than 1,400 homes, after about 2in (50mm) of rain fell across the county in an hour...

Sure enough, Scotland got hit also:

Parts of Scotland affected by ex-hurricane Bertha

Parts of Scotland have been badly hit by high winds and heavy rain in the wake of what was Hurricane Bertha.

The Scottish Environment Protection Agency (Sepa) has almost 40 flood warnings in place, covering Aberdeenshire, Speyside, Moray, Caithness and Sutherland, and Tayside. Moray Council said it was going to evacuate about 200 homes at risk of flooding in Elgin.

And ScotRail said train travel was being severely impacted by flooding...

... By early Monday morning, Lossiemouth had recorded almost a month's rainfall in 12 hours...

Has this ever happened before? Let's confine the answer to the last 1000 years.

What was the cause of the above?

[Good strong squealy Scottish drawn out drawl:]

Weeeeeeeeellllllll... Ya seeeeeee...


Emergency funding for Scottish flood damage

... Elgin's £86m flood alleviation scheme was put to the test on Monday when the area was hit by the remnants of Hurricane Bertha. But 200 homes were evacuated over fears the River Lossie would burst its banks where the project is not completed.

Properties in parts of Aberdeenshire were also evacuated as the water level rose...

... One of the most photographed landmarks during the height of Monday's flooding was the Old Bridge of Carr at Carrbridge, a village near Aviemore.

Kumaran Krishnan photographed the crossing two days earlier and said the scene at that time was "serene"... [And later there looks to be a 4metres high raging torrent]...

Torrential rain brought by ex-Hurricane Bertha caused the wettest day of the year so far, with Fair Isle in Shetland seeing 132.6mm of rain between 10:00 on Saturday and 10:00 on Monday - almost double the 70.3mm full-month average for August.

Lossiemouth in Moray was deluged with 100mm of rain during the same time, despite a full-month average of 61.9mm...


So... That's nearly twice the monthly average in a series of heavy downpours over just two days.

The source for this example is the remnants of a hurricane whipped across the Atlantic by an unusually persistently placed jet stream. Add to that the storm intensified rather than dissipated. That doesn't happen for our more usual conditions...


As always, a one off event like this cannot lay blame for anything regarding climate. However, note that if our climate was steady, over your 1000 year period you would expect to have all the freak weather records broken early on to then see the records hold untouched thereafter. (All the typical weather extremes will have already been noted early on if the weather is not getting any more extreme.)

Instead, in recent years we are getting the records for "freak/extreme/unusual weather" steadily repeatedly broken into ever greater extremes.

Something is clearly changing...

And the physics clearly show that a higher concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere leads to warming of the lower atmosphere and from that a greater uptake of water vapour can be expected and from that extra water going up, you get extra water being rained out over a few days cycle.


And the isotope mark of most of that extra proportion of CO2 in our atmosphere is all man-made industrial pollution. Yet more of the extra CO2 is from our farming and environmental destruction.


The pattern looks that we might not be getting any additional storms, but the ones we do get are ever more intense and because of that they are more often noteworthy.

All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Global warming slowdown answer lies in depths of Atlantic, study finds

Excess heat being stored hundreds of metres down in Atlantic and Southern oceans – not Pacific as previously thought

The key to behind the slowdown in global warming in recent years could lie in the depths of the Atlantic and Southern oceans where excess heat is being stored – not the Pacific Ocean as has previously been suggested, according to new research.

But the finding suggests that a naturally occurring ocean cycle burying the heat will flip in around 15 years’ time, causing global temperature rises to accelerate again.

But the finding suggests that a naturally occurring ocean cycle burying the heat will flip in around 15 years’ time, causing global temperature rises to accelerate again.

Yep, Gots Ta Keep Inducing dat Fear Into EveryOne. EveryOne? ROTFLMAO.

Is AnyOne Listening To These Extremist Fear Mongers AnyMore?

I'll Call Youse 15 and Raise Youse a 1000.

Man 'O Live.

Opening WorldWide, The Fossil Fuels Cafe. KoolAid Free fO All The Warmists.

' '

---

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!