Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: DENIAL (#3)

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Message 1554287 - Posted: 9 Aug 2014, 16:12:48 UTC
Last modified: 9 Aug 2014, 16:14:16 UTC

We really are getting unusual repeated deluges with such as this latest:


Clean-up under way after Cambridgeshire flash flooding

The clean-up operation is under way across Cambridgeshire, after torrential storms sparked power cuts and major disruption on the roads.

Electricity was restored by 22:40 BST on Friday to more than 1,400 homes, after about 2in (50mm) of rain fell across the county in an hour...



And still the pollution greed continues:

Canada launches mission to map Arctic seabed

Canada has launched a mission to map the Arctic seabed to support its bid to extend its territory up to the North Pole.

The six-week mission comes in the face of competing claims from other countries, including Russia. Two ice-breakers are setting out from Newfoundland to collect data from an undersea ridge that starts near Ellesmere Island and runs to the Pole.

The region is believed to include large oil and gas reserves...




Been unusually heavily damp here also but not quite enough to hit the headlines.

There is a connection and it certainly ain't Biblical in nature... And the Deniers can say nothing useful other than to cling onto their convenience and profits...


All on our only one planet,
Martin
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Message 1554310 - Posted: 9 Aug 2014, 17:41:32 UTC

The six-week mission comes in the face of competing claims from other countries, including Russia.


The Russians will lay claim to this oil while we cluck our tongues and play Switchee.
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Message 1554313 - Posted: 9 Aug 2014, 17:45:52 UTC - in response to Message 1554293.  
Last modified: 9 Aug 2014, 17:46:56 UTC

There is a connection and it certainly ain't Biblical in nature... And the Deniers can say nothing useful other than to cling onto their convenience and profits...

And Big Corrupt Green Profits?

If so, at least that will not be at the yet greater additional expense of polluting our planet to hell.


Market corruption and political corruption is blatantly rife and one for another thread. Any solution possible there?!


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Message 1554836 - Posted: 11 Aug 2014, 1:46:13 UTC - in response to Message 1554492.  

Have you seen how much manufacturing of, and dispose of, Battery Operating cars


Please explain ??

I worked for a car battery recycle'r so i do know what is involved with recycling lead acid batteries or any battery Nickel or cadmium in it . In fact i rewrote the lead softening procedure after i made big changes to it to make it safer and more efficient. I am the only person on the planet that can do a dry softening of lead according to my Bosses whom sent me to teach others down in Melbourne and Port Pirie also came to watch me do it .

so please put some links so i can check it out
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Message 1554923 - Posted: 11 Aug 2014, 5:33:25 UTC

Glenn Savill said:
I am the only person on the planet that can do a dry softening of lead


Ouch. Dat made The Lead in My Pencil Immediately Soften. Use Dat Procedure fO The Male Contraception Industry.

Snap To 'It' Matey. Make Dat BIG DOUGH you Hate so much, and Be Riche Rich.

' '

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1554941 - Posted: 11 Aug 2014, 6:18:36 UTC - in response to Message 1554923.  
Last modified: 11 Aug 2014, 6:19:20 UTC

mister Gooba Gaba the lead in your pencil is not lead but carbon graphite

If you give your email address i'll send you part of the standard i worked on if you wish for me to prove it . or just ask me some questions only someone whom has worked in the lead industry if you like . The name of the company was called ARA Australian Refined Alloys 32 Euston rd Alexandria Sydney as for getting cash mate no . I have made many suggestions that have been taken up and made company's more profits but when you do it that way you get jack as it becomes the company's idea not mine .

I did get a big pay rise and promotion tho
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Message 1555147 - Posted: 11 Aug 2014, 17:31:06 UTC - in response to Message 1554287.  
Last modified: 11 Aug 2014, 17:31:43 UTC

We really are getting unusual repeated deluges with such as this latest:


Clean-up under way after Cambridgeshire flash flooding

The clean-up operation is under way across Cambridgeshire, after torrential storms sparked power cuts and major disruption on the roads.

Electricity was restored by 22:40 BST on Friday to more than 1,400 homes, after about 2in (50mm) of rain fell across the county in an hour...


Sure enough, Scotland got hit also:

Parts of Scotland affected by ex-hurricane Bertha

Parts of Scotland have been badly hit by high winds and heavy rain in the wake of what was Hurricane Bertha.

The Scottish Environment Protection Agency (Sepa) has almost 40 flood warnings in place, covering Aberdeenshire, Speyside, Moray, Caithness and Sutherland, and Tayside. Moray Council said it was going to evacuate about 200 homes at risk of flooding in Elgin.

And ScotRail said train travel was being severely impacted by flooding...

... By early Monday morning, Lossiemouth had recorded almost a month's rainfall in 12 hours...



And still the pollution greed continues:

Canada launches mission to map Arctic seabed

Canada has launched a mission to map the Arctic seabed to support its bid to extend its territory up to the North Pole.

The six-week mission comes in the face of competing claims from other countries, including Russia. Two ice-breakers are setting out from Newfoundland to collect data from an undersea ridge that starts near Ellesmere Island and runs to the Pole.

The region is believed to include large oil and gas reserves...




Been unusually heavily damp here also but not quite enough to hit the headlines.


There is a connection and it certainly ain't Biblical in nature... And the Deniers can say nothing useful other than to cling onto their convenience and profits...


All on our only one planet,
Martin
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Message 1555468 - Posted: 12 Aug 2014, 4:47:53 UTC - in response to Message 1555433.  

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Message 1555577 - Posted: 12 Aug 2014, 9:33:00 UTC - in response to Message 1555468.  

Michael Fish - infamouus weather forcast

BBC News - Day after

Technically, he was correct. It wasn't a hurricane as it did not originate in the tropics.
Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.
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Message 1555652 - Posted: 12 Aug 2014, 13:15:43 UTC - in response to Message 1555433.  
Last modified: 12 Aug 2014, 13:29:25 UTC

We really are getting unusual repeated deluges with such as this latest:


Clean-up under way after Cambridgeshire flash flooding

The clean-up operation is under way across Cambridgeshire, after torrential storms sparked power cuts and major disruption on the roads.

Electricity was restored by 22:40 BST on Friday to more than 1,400 homes, after about 2in (50mm) of rain fell across the county in an hour...


Sure enough, Scotland got hit also:

Parts of Scotland affected by ex-hurricane Bertha

Parts of Scotland have been badly hit by high winds and heavy rain in the wake of what was Hurricane Bertha.

The Scottish Environment Protection Agency (Sepa) has almost 40 flood warnings in place, covering Aberdeenshire, Speyside, Moray, Caithness and Sutherland, and Tayside. Moray Council said it was going to evacuate about 200 homes at risk of flooding in Elgin.

And ScotRail said train travel was being severely impacted by flooding...

... By early Monday morning, Lossiemouth had recorded almost a month's rainfall in 12 hours...

Has this ever happened before? Let's confine the answer to the last 1000 years.

What was the cause of the above?

[Good strong squealy Scottish drawn out drawl:]

Weeeeeeeeellllllll... Ya seeeeeee...


Emergency funding for Scottish flood damage

... Elgin's £86m flood alleviation scheme was put to the test on Monday when the area was hit by the remnants of Hurricane Bertha. But 200 homes were evacuated over fears the River Lossie would burst its banks where the project is not completed.

Properties in parts of Aberdeenshire were also evacuated as the water level rose...

... One of the most photographed landmarks during the height of Monday's flooding was the Old Bridge of Carr at Carrbridge, a village near Aviemore.

Kumaran Krishnan photographed the crossing two days earlier and said the scene at that time was "serene"... [And later there looks to be a 4metres high raging torrent]...

Torrential rain brought by ex-Hurricane Bertha caused the wettest day of the year so far, with Fair Isle in Shetland seeing 132.6mm of rain between 10:00 on Saturday and 10:00 on Monday - almost double the 70.3mm full-month average for August.

Lossiemouth in Moray was deluged with 100mm of rain during the same time, despite a full-month average of 61.9mm...



So... That's nearly twice the monthly average in a series of heavy downpours over just two days.

The source for this example is the remnants of a hurricane whipped across the Atlantic by an unusually persistently placed jet stream. Add to that the storm intensified rather than dissipated. That doesn't happen for our more usual conditions...


As always, a one off event like this cannot lay blame for anything regarding climate. However, note that if our climate was steady, over your 1000 year period you would expect to have all the freak weather records broken early on to then see the records hold untouched thereafter. (All the typical weather extremes will have already been noted early on if the weather is not getting any more extreme.)

Instead, in recent years we are getting the records for "freak/extreme/unusual weather" steadily repeatedly broken into ever greater extremes.


Something is clearly changing...

And the physics clearly show that a higher concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere leads to warming of the lower atmosphere and from that a greater uptake of water vapour can be expected and from that extra water going up, you get extra water being rained out over a few days cycle.


And the isotope mark of most of that extra proportion of CO2 in our atmosphere is all man-made industrial pollution. Yet more of the extra CO2 is from our farming and environmental destruction.


The pattern looks that we might not be getting any additional storms, but the ones we do get are ever more intense and because of that they are more often noteworthy.

All on our only one planet,
Martin
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Message 1555937 - Posted: 12 Aug 2014, 23:02:17 UTC - in response to Message 1555661.  
Last modified: 12 Aug 2014, 23:04:19 UTC

... Exactly what is the REAL increase in 'Freak' Weather incidents?...

How would ANYONE know, without any Accurate Long Term Records?

They wouldn't. It is just a guess (really propaganda), based upon their Agenda.

Usual trolling then so as to ask the impossible for impossibly long ago to impossible detail to then claim we can't possibly know, etc, etc, etc... All without any finger work or any reliable sources from yourself.


We do have good weather records for enough of the world to compare across our industrial period.

We have written records going a few hundred years earlier that would record anything freakish if anything freakish happened.

And we have simulations that can simulate various scenarios for whatever time period you might have of interest so that we can gain an understanding of what parameters the weather is sensitive to.


Can you take the trouble to move from your armchair to read and understand:


Current Extreme Weather & Climate Change

... Recent weather events such as deadly heat waves and devastating floods have sparked popular interest in understanding the role of global warming in driving extreme weather. These events are part of a new pattern of more extreme weather across the globe, shaped in part by human-induced climate change.

As the climate has warmed, some types of extreme weather have become more frequent and severe in recent decades, with increases in extreme heat, intense precipitation, and drought. Heat waves are longer and hotter. Heavy rains and flooding are more frequent. In a wide swing between extremes, drought, too, is more intense and more widespread...

... While natural variability continues to play a key role in extreme weather, climate change has shifted the odds and changed the natural limits...



Extreme weather becoming more common, study says

Rise in blocking-patterns – hot or wet weather remaining stuck over regions for weeks – causing frequent heatwaves or floods...

... the link between blocking patterns and extreme weather was very well established. He added that the increasing frequency shown in the new work indicated climate change could bring rapid and dramatic changes to weather, on top of a gradual heating of the planet. “Circulation changes can have much more non-linear effects. They may do nothing for a while, then there might be some kind of regime change.”

Shepherd said linking the rise in blocking events to Arctic warming remained “a bit speculative” at this stage, in particular because the difference between temperatures at the poles and equator is most pronounced in winter, not summer. But he noted that the succession of storms that caused England’s wettest winter in 250 years was a “very good example” of blocking patterns causing extreme weather during the coldest season. “The jet stream was stuck in one position for a long period, so a whole series of storms passed over England,”...




As a reminder, our industrial revolution and pollution ramped up apace about 200 years ago. It is only since the modern technology and Marketing practices of the last 50 years that we are now seeing the unavoidably obvious effects of the ever increasing magnitude of our modern industrial CO2 pollution...


And there are the additional direct environmental costs of that denial. For just one example in recent news:


Illegal coal mine encroaching on nature reserve in north-west China

Coalfield 14 times the size of the City of London turns alpine meadows into craters in Qinghai...


Time to come clean?

All a game of denial?...

All on our only one planet,
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Message 1555951 - Posted: 12 Aug 2014, 23:29:13 UTC - in response to Message 1555937.  

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Message 1555961 - Posted: 12 Aug 2014, 23:48:08 UTC

ML1 said:
pollution...marketing practices...


Yep, Your Ilk are Real GOoD at Polluting(Selling) the Info Stream with Your Marketing Practices(BS Agentizing Bias). And The Flood of BS Warming CO2 Pollution is Flooding All Available Markets with Damaged GOoDs.

Nice JOB.

' '

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1556078 - Posted: 13 Aug 2014, 5:37:13 UTC

Ah, yes, batteries, that green savior ......

Now what happens to those batteries when they reach the end of their life?

http://www.aqmd.gov/home/library/public-information/2014-news-archives/air-quality-officials-file-lawsuit-against-exide
Air Quality Officials File Lawsuit Seeking Up To $40 Million in Penalties from Exide Technologies


http://www.latimes.com/science/la-me-exide-homes-20140812-story.html
State regulators have greatly expanded the area of homes, schools and parks that will be tested for lead-tainted soil near a troubled battery recycling plant in Vernon.

California toxic waste regulators blame air pollution from the Exide Technologies plant for the elevated levels of lead detected last fall at 39 homes and a preschool in Maywood and Boyle Heights, prompting officials to issue health warnings for pregnant women and children, and require additional testing. Workers began removing contaminated soil from two homes in Boyle Heights near the facility Monday.


http://www.aqmd.gov/home/library/public-information/2014-news-archives/exide-amended-lawsuit
August 7, 2014

The South Coast Air Quality Management District today filed an amended complaint in its existing civil enforcement lawsuit against Exide Technologies for dozens of alleged violations involving excess emissions of lead and arsenic.

SCAQMD filed its 96-page amended complaint in Los Angeles Superior Court. While the initial version of the complaint was filed in January, today’s amended complaint spells out the details of numerous violations of SCAQMD rules and regulations beginning at some point after October 2008 and continuing until March 14, 2014, when Exide shut down its plant to conduct maintenance. The facility has remained closed since then. However, subsequent construction and maintenance activities in March and April caused high levels of lead emissions that exceeded SCAQMD’s lead standard.


http://www.aqmd.gov/home/library/public-information/2014-news-archives/scaqmd-officials-respond-to-exide-lawsuit
February 7, 2014

Responding to a lawsuit filed by Exide Technologies against an arsenic emissions reduction rule to protect public health, South Coast Air Quality Management District officials expressed confidence that their regulation will prevail in court.

“Our arsenic regulation will help to further protect public health for thousands of residents living downwind of Exide’s battery recycling plant in Vernon,” said Barry Wallerstein, SCAQMD’s executive officer.

“We are disappointed that Exide has chosen to continue to fight against reasonable pollution controls,” he said. “In addition, they continue to be a serial violator of air pollution regulations.”

Exide Technologies filed a lawsuit today in Los Angeles Superior Court asking a judge to set aside SCAQMD’s recent amendments to its Rule 1420.1.

Rule 1420.1 will require Exide and Quemetco, Inc. in the City of Industry – the only lead-acid battery recycling facilities west of the Rockies – to meet strict emission limits for arsenic, benzene and 1,3-butadiene. All three toxic compounds are known to cause cancer. Quemetco is not contesting the regulation.


http://classactioncentral.com/exide-technologies-xide-shareholder-class-action-lawsuit-timeline/
Exide Technologies Events

On March 22, 2013, a government agency released a health risk evaluation of emissions from the Exide recycled lead battery smelting facility in Vernon, California. According to the review, the facility exposed employees and residents living in the area to possibly cancerous amounts of arsenic.

On April 3, 2013, a Los Angeles City Council committee instructed the Los Angeles City Attorneys’ office to take action to necessitate Exide to attend to the pollution problems. Shares of Exide fell approximately 50% on this news, to close at $1.37 per share on April 4, 2013.

On April 24, 2013, Exide received an order from the California Department of Toxic Substances Control (DTSC) regarding its Vernon, California plant. The DTSC forced Exide to close the factory on the basis that the company’s underground stormwater system is not in conformity with State of California guidelines and alleges the company’s furnace emissions are not meeting applicable DTSC health risk standards. On the following trading day, shares of Exide fell about 25% in reaction to the news.


http://www.aqmd.gov/home/library/public-information/2014-news-archives/hearing-board-decision-on-exide
http://www.aqmd.gov/home/regulations/compliance/exide-updates/nov-listings
http://www.leadfreefrisco.com/2013/09/05/breaking-news-exide-vernon-exide-asks-bankruptcy-court-hald-115-million-putative-class-action-suit-environmental-hazards-vernon-lead-smelter/


It looks like the reality of green could be dirtier than coal ....
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Message 1556180 - Posted: 13 Aug 2014, 13:31:12 UTC - in response to Message 1556100.  

I don't think anyone is advocating lead acid batteries as part of green technology.

Quite right, they are advocating tech using substances 100's of times more toxic than lead. Imagine what will come out of those recycling plants!
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Message 1556196 - Posted: 13 Aug 2014, 15:25:16 UTC - in response to Message 1556081.  
Last modified: 13 Aug 2014, 15:25:51 UTC

YOU AGREE with me that, NO ONE can scientifically know if the present 'freak' weather is unusual, and has occurred many times, around The World for, let's say, 1000 years.

No, I do not agree.

All the indications are that the "freak weather" is getting quickly more frequent and more extreme as of the last one or two decades.

Previous to our recent time, freak weather was rare and freak.

So, do you have any believable real evidence showing no change in freak weather over your arbitrary 1000 years?


Therefore. Anyone claiming the present 'freak' weather is do to Human activity: Is just spouting nonsense.

Thank you!

All just a triumphant figment of your imagination and an excuse to do nothing but to continue to expensively pollute.


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Message 1556197 - Posted: 13 Aug 2014, 15:33:12 UTC - in response to Message 1556078.  
Last modified: 13 Aug 2014, 15:35:17 UTC

Ah, yes, batteries, that green savior ......

Now what happens to those batteries when they reach the end of their life?...

http://www.aqmd.gov/home/library/public-information/2014-news-archives/exide-amended-lawsuit
August 7, 2014

The South Coast Air Quality Management District today filed an amended complaint in its existing civil enforcement lawsuit against Exide Technologies for dozens of alleged violations involving excess emissions of lead and arsenic.

... continuing until March 14, 2014, when Exide shut down its plant to conduct maintenance. The facility has remained closed since then...


...

It looks like the reality of green could be dirtier than coal ....

Thanks for the good quotes for that one dirty (old) lead battery plant.


Lead and arsenic poisoning is nasty stuff and for a much wider example is the bane of mine tailings for everyone downstream, not only for old lead-acid battery plants.

Since that old tech, we're quickly moving onto newer better cleaner tech.

However, just like the old fossils with the pollution from that, there is going to be other old industry lingering on with their poisonous dirt.


So: Just one particularly shoddy dirty USA lead battery plant is the example to stop us all going green and clean? Really?!...


Hope you have further better examples.

Meanwhile, technology moves on to better cleaner things.


All on our only one world,
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Message 1556379 - Posted: 13 Aug 2014, 20:18:27 UTC - in response to Message 1551093.  

Climate Change: Which way is it changing.

Set all-time, nightly low record for July here in Nashville TN.
It was 2 degrees above 0 in New York state this week or 37 American.



Hi friend...

Sorry, nothing on topic to add here guys.
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Message 1556392 - Posted: 13 Aug 2014, 21:24:37 UTC - in response to Message 1556197.  

Thanks for the good quotes for that one dirty (old) lead battery plant.


Lead and arsenic poisoning is nasty stuff and for a much wider example is the bane of mine tailings for everyone downstream, not only for old lead-acid battery plants.

Since that old tech, we're quickly moving onto newer better cleaner tech.

Are we? Or is that just an empty promise?

However, just like the old fossils with the pollution from that, there is going to be other old industry lingering on with their poisonous dirt.

Those "fossils" will be in charge of the "green" as well. That is perhaps what you don't realize. And the "fossils" are "Wall Street" and the fiduciary duty to the shareholder to maximize profit, even if that means ignoring all environmental regulations. And you want them to play with materials 100 times more toxic ... .

Perhaps I'm cynical about the results that will be obtained, but I think I'm being more realistic given human nature and fiduciary duty.
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Message 1556415 - Posted: 13 Aug 2014, 22:58:04 UTC - in response to Message 1556403.  

Past technologies have too often passed hidden costs on to the public for the sake of corporate profitability.

What has changed to corporate structure so that future technologies won't pass on hidden costs?
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Message boards : Politics : Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: DENIAL (#3)


 
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