I watched a documentary on the 1930's dust bowl today.
It's an American thing, government sponsored

Not sure what you mean by that exactly...

The USA 1930's dust bowl disaster was mainly due to an early Agribusiness pushing farmers into very bad farming practices that then created a disaster waiting to happen. The wait for the right weather to cause such a disaster soon came...


That example may not have been a climate thing. However, since then, we have been very much changing the climate. This time, rather than our farming being poisoned by the requirements of Big Agribusiness profits and senseless overuse of "fertilizers", we have our very atmosphere being industrially poisoned by the Big Old Dirty Fossil Fuels suppliers.


We really do need a disaster for history to repeat?

All on a GLOBAL scale??!


All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
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All a part of the building a storm of disaster?


Torrential rain and flash flooding cause travel chaos

Homes were evacuated and people left stranded in their cars as lightning, hail, heavy rain and flash flooding hit east and south-east England.

The freak weather brought roads and railway services to a standstill in parts of Sussex, Essex and London. More than half the average total rain for England in July fell in an hour in some areas...

... The hailstorm was so fierce it left ice on roads and pavements across Sussex...

... The A40 near Hillingdon Station, west London, looked more like a river after the deluge...

... west London, said the downpours lasted for about 45 minutes...



MPs bicker over IPCC report on causes of climate change

MPs have endorsed the findings of a UN climate panel that says humans are the dominant cause of global warming. Members of the Energy and Climate Change Committee said there was "no reason to doubt the credibility of the science" of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

But two MPs, known for their sceptical views, voted against...



Russia to appeal $50bn Yukos shareholder payout

Russia will appeal a court decision ordering it to pay $50bn (£29.5bn) in damages, the biggest compensation package ordered to date. Russia was told to pay the money to former shareholders in the now defunct oil producer Yukos.

The Hague court said Russian officials had manipulated the legal system to bankrupt Yukos, and jail its boss...

... "The majority shareholders of Yukos Oil were left without compensation for the loss of their investment when Russia illegally expropriated Yukos."...



All very corrupt for the sake of oil money?

And yet the physics and the real world remain uncorruptible. We increase the level of CO2, we make directly for more violent storms and extreme weather. We for the longer term change the very climate and oceans for our planet upon which we depend for our life.


How soon or how long?...

How much do you want to gamble with your world?... And for everyone else?...


All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
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Well, which is it Global Warming, cooling cycle, ice age, hailstorms.
Droughts, floods, hurricanes, Tornadoes?

Climate Change: Which way is it changing.

Set all-time, nightly low record for July here in Nashville TN.

Climate Change: Which way is it changing.

Me thinks the record drought in the south west is a good indicator. The models that I saw 2 decades ago predicted more extremes and I am now seeing evidence of that on a world wide basis.

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Climate Change: Which way is it changing.

Set all-time, nightly low record for July here in Nashville TN.

It was 2 degrees above 0 in New York state this week or 37 American.

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I DO NOT DENY The Polar Vortex. If Dat Be 400 ppm and Higher doin' dat, I Likeee dat Climate Change.

Pump Up da CO2 Vrold!

97 plus 4 equals Cool Baby Cool

DEAD

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Deny and destroy this?


UK's deep sea mountain life filmed

... Some of these have been growing there for hundreds and even thousands of years, but forecasts say they could be destroyed before the end of the century by an increasingly acidic ocean environment.

"The rate now at which the oceans are changing is unlike anything they will have experienced in their evolutionary history," said Prof Roberts.

"Carbon dioxide release is changing the chemistry of our oceans, and forecasts in the Atlantic are that the corals will be exposed to more acidic seawater and that their skeletons will dissolve away."

He added that this ocean acidification posed a serious risk to a deep sea ecosystem "that has great value to society", pointing out that some unique chemicals originally extracted from deep sea organisms are now are used in research into treatments for diseases including malaria and cancer.

Dr Carol Turley, from Plymouth Marine Laboratory, said that 96% of the living space on our planet is in the ocean.

"And the majority of that is below 1,000m, but it's still the big unknown area of our planet," she added. "There is such amazing diversity down there," said Dr Turley. "And fisheries are already moving into the deeper sea, because our surface fisheries are being over-exploited.

"We need to understand the life down there, because its our heritage; we need to look after it for the next generation."



All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Here's my confusion. Carbon dioxide dissolved in the seawater constitutes a somewhat weak carbonic acid. If the sea is warming then more and more carbon dioxide will come out of solution. (imagine heating up a glass of seltzer water or club soda to see this clearly).

So the sea's should be becoming less acidic in my way of thinking. In the oceans off of Cuba the reefs are thriving. They share the same atmosphere as we all do. They do not dump garbage and sewage into their surrounding oceans and streams. They probably don't use a lot of fertilizer on their crops so that the run-off from farming is likely to be more benign than other areas in the world.

Here's my confusion. Carbon dioxide dissolved in the seawater constitutes a somewhat weak carbonic acid. If the sea is warming then more and more carbon dioxide will come out of solution. (imagine heating up a glass of seltzer water or club soda to see this clearly).

OK so far... Warmer water can hold less dissolved gas than cooler water.

All as so beautifully described here for Marketing:

Influence Of Temperature And Pressure on Carbonic Acid Gas

Ignore all reference to "Carbonic Acid Gas". What is being described is CO2 gas and the experience of a consumer to the effervescence!


However, do not ignore how CO2 dissolves in water but also reacts with the water to form other chemicals...

So the sea's should be becoming less acidic in my way of thinking. In the oceans off of Cuba the reefs are thriving. They share the same atmosphere as we all do. They do not dump garbage and sewage into their surrounding oceans and streams. They probably don't use a lot of fertilizer on their crops so that the run-off from farming is likely to be more benign than other areas in the world.

There are a combination of effects of which ocean acidity from atmospheric CO2 affecting the biology is now ever more significant. It means that in areas that are already 'stressed', the creatures there will die off sooner than other less polluted (less 'stressed') areas. There is other pollution other than CO2 ocean acidification, but it all adds up to death. The increasing acidity brings that death sooner.

See:

Calcification

for the one part of the story about calcium uptake. Note how the ocean acidity is dependent primarily on the partial pressure of CO2... Which we are industrially increasing.


All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

In my part of the world, Puget Sound in Western Washington, the local oyster farms are having problems with shell development due to the increased acidification. That is a fact and they are now becoming proactive to ameliorate the situation. So do not deny a measured event. It's effing real!

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betreger said:

So do not deny a measured event. It's effing real!

Dat Be Real Funny

A 10,000 page book would Not Be Enough to Show How Funny dat quote is.

' '

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

betreger posted the following:

In my part of the world, Puget Sound in Western Washington, the local oyster farms are having problems with shell development due to the increased acidification. That is a fact and they are now becoming proactive to ameliorate the situation. So do not deny a measured event. It's effing real!

Right from the Alaska coast, down the Pacific coast of Canada to the USA ... state of Washington, Oregon ....

all the scientists in both United States of America, Canada, Washington state, British Columbia, Alaska, Oregon .... are all seeing the same thing ...

Ocean acidification growing risk to west coast fishery, including crab and salmon, US studies show, Department of Fisheres Canada

problems with shell development due to the increased acidification

Fisheries and Oceans Canada

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/coe-cde/soto/report-rapport-2012/index-eng.asp

problems with shell development due to the increased acidification west coast Canada

Ocean acidification growing risk to west coast fishery, including crab and salmon, US studies show, Department of Fisheres Canada

Alaska, BC, BC government, Canada, climate, coast, DFO, dredging, environment, Environment & Science,

First Nations, Fisheries, herring, LNG, NOAA, ocean,

Prince Rupert, salmon, shell fish, Study, United States, Washington 

The United States says acidification of the oceans means there is an already growing risk

to the northwest coast fishery, including crab and salmon, according to studies released by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

As more carbon dioxide is released into the atmosphere and absorbed by the oceans,

the water is becoming more acidic and that affects many species, especially shellfish, dissolving the shells.

A NOAA study released today of environmental and economic risks to the Alaska fishery says:

Many of Alaska’s nutritionally and economically valuable marine fisheries are located in waters that are already

experiencing ocean acidification, and will see more in the near future…. Communities in southeast and southwest Alaska

face the highest risk from ocean acidification because they rely heavily on fisheries that are expected to be most affected by ocean acidification…

An earlier NOAA study, released in April, identified a long term threat to the salmon fishery as

ocean snails called pteropods which are a prime food source for pink salmon are already being affected by the acidification of the ocean.

http://nwcoastenergynews.com/2014/07/29/6636/ocean-acidification-growing-risk-west-coast-fishery-including-crab-salmon-studies-show/

Mar 7, 2014 -

According to research by Fisheries and Oceans Canada, these changes have led

For example, research on the west coast is using satellites

Increasing acidification reduces the saturation state of calcite and aragonite

In my part of the world, Puget Sound in Western Washington, the local oyster farms are having problems with shell development due to the increased acidification.

If true and the earth is actually warming, then I don't think it is increased carbonic acidification.

Sulphuric Acid may be to blame. My swimming pool warms up nicely to over 80 degrees F but I still have to add soda ash and baking soda to raise the PH.

William regardless it is too low of PH and now they are starting them in pools with an artificialy raised PH. This is a new phenomenon and does not have an historical or geologic precedent. Oysters grew in this part of the world prior to the ice ages.

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... Sulphuric Acid may be to blame...

What?!

You're claiming that industry is dumping battery acid into the oceans?! Really?!!


Sorry to hurt your convenience but the physics for CO2 absorbed into the ocean from the industrial CO2 pollution in our atmosphere is the simplest and most well founded explanation.


All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
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Sorry to hurt your convenience but the physics for CO2 absorbed into the ocean from the industrial CO2 pollution in our atmosphere is the simplest and most well founded explanation.

Martin sorry to burst your bubble but CO2 is only one component of the acidification, run off is another, but until today I have not seen H2S04 brought up.

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Martin Luther ,

Sulfur Dioxide, primarily from coal combustion, leads to acidification which falls as so called "Acid Rain". For your information: Midwestern coal when washed still contains 3.5% sulfur which becomes Sulfur DIOXIDE when combusted. I know because I worked along with the EPA and ran their models when we were figuring out the impact of converting a small University power plant back to coal from #6 fuel oil. Indeed, "acid Rain" was the mantra of the previous generation of "environmentalists".

Man-made CO2 is a very small percentage of overall CO-2 production .

The biggest sources of of CO-2 production are: Natural sources including decomposition, ocean release and respiration.

Finally we have stated that warmer ocean water releases more CO-2.

We have been through all of this before. I conclude that man made CO-2 is not causing acidification especially if the claims of global warming (from whatever reason) are true.

I would think that an escape out of faulty, circular reasoning might be that warming itself is contributing to increased atmospheric CO-2 concentrations far far more than human activity.

Run off from high Nitrogen fertilizers, sewage etc causes algae growth which is the reason ocean water is being tainted. Therefore: human activity does adversely affect the oceans: This would be a far more worthy cause for you than the silly CO-2 nonsense.

I was under the impression that undersea volcano's were the biggest producers of sulphur dioxide and CO2?

I was under the impression that undersea volcano's were the biggest producers of sulphur dioxide and CO2?

Nope...

Our man-made industrial pollution easily beats anything natural for those sources.

Note how reducing "acid rain" has been a good success story so far in reducing one aspect of deadly pollution...


All on our only one planet,
Martin

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... Notice they start by saying "The most likely".

They don't know.

Oh how so glib and trite from you... Such is just one excuse of denial?

Now try to comprehend the English and meaning and consider that you are reading "science-speak" that has a very high standard for accuracy and meaning. That high standard also makes it read like a lump of philosophical discussion where even our very existence is questioned because each of us creates our own "imagining" of what our senses detect.

Hence the phrase "most likely" means that we have a very good explanation that fits. We next need someone to actually go out and do further work to directly confirm more of the detail.

The question is: How far and how much detail do you want?

For some things, the research in one area can be considered to be done well enough that we can far better spend scarce (strangled and cut off) resources answering other more significant questions.


So you have an ice cube on a saucer and you notice that the ice cube is melting.

Without any further research I can say that for the assumption of a scene at someone's home, most likely the ice cube is melting because the environment around it is at greater than 0 deg C (32 Fahrenheit). Such as, it has been placed in a drink/beverage.

Why is "most likely" not good enough for you?

Or do you claim the extreme clarity of thought of Plato and Aristotle?


Such is the convenience of denial?

All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)