Evolution - In Two Places


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WinterKnight
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Message 1522900 - Posted: 31 May 2014, 3:51:37 UTC

Crickets in two places fall silent to survive

Silent, "flatwing" crickets appeared independently on two islands over 100km apart

The idea that the trait had evolved twice, at almost the same time, seemed far-fetched. "It still seems amazing to me," Dr Bailey told BBC News.

The first clue was an observation that the mutant, silenced wings on the two islands had two different shapes.

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Message 1522967 - Posted: 31 May 2014, 11:12:30 UTC

Darwin's Galapagos finches all over again!

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Message 1523005 - Posted: 31 May 2014, 14:51:39 UTC - in response to Message 1522967.

Darwin's Galapagos finches all over again!

And a spectacular example for how surprisingly quickly.

And a clear example of 'convergent' evolution also! That strongly suggests that there are many routes for evolution to home in onto a specific end result.


Thanks for that,

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Message 1523770 - Posted: 2 Jun 2014, 18:53:32 UTC

Not so fast. The females have yet to adapt. When all the real males are gone will the females be able to adapt? This is still early as the crickets and flies are not native to Hawaii.

Because they are mute, these "flatwing" male crickets are hidden from the parasitoid flies and escape being eaten by maggots. That triumph comes at a cost, however, since finding a mate is tricky without a voice. The silent types loiter near the few males still singing away, and intercept females for themselves.

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Message 1523871 - Posted: 2 Jun 2014, 22:24:00 UTC - in response to Message 1523770.

Not so fast. The females have yet to adapt. When all the real males are gone will the females be able to adapt? This is still early as the crickets and flies are not native to Hawaii.

Because they are mute, these "flatwing" male crickets are hidden from the parasitoid flies and escape being eaten by maggots. That triumph comes at a cost, however, since finding a mate is tricky without a voice. The silent types loiter near the few males still singing away, and intercept females for themselves.

The females don't make any noise with theirs so they don't get attacked by the fly.

Cheers.

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Message 1523897 - Posted: 2 Jun 2014, 23:57:27 UTC - in response to Message 1523871.

The females don't make any noise with theirs so they don't get attacked by the fly.
The females have not adapted to finding silent males though. The silent males cluster around the remaining chirping males most likely still going through the motions of chirping. I see this as a short term evolutionary success that should have failed; it will fail in the long run unless the females adapt to finding silent mates. This wont be easy or quick as there won't be a need until it is too late.
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Message 1523901 - Posted: 3 Jun 2014, 0:30:49 UTC

Have you ever thought that it's the females that are bringing along this adaption in the males while still allowing a few chirpers to be born so that they can mate with the silent 1's hanging around those chirpers?

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Message 1523939 - Posted: 3 Jun 2014, 3:58:23 UTC - in response to Message 1523901.
Last modified: 3 Jun 2014, 3:59:29 UTC

Have you ever thought that it's the females that are bringing along this adaption in the males while still allowing a few chirpers to be born so that they can mate with the silent 1's hanging around those chirpers?

No crickets don't think or decide which genes to give the offspring. The chirping males carry the chirping genes; and their number will decreases faster as there will be fewer for the flies to feed on. Females or non chirping males will have to evolve a new way to find each other. As of now they are surviving on a disappearing trait. This does show evolution can happen quickly but it may be a dead end.
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Message 1523982 - Posted: 3 Jun 2014, 8:23:31 UTC

So I suppose that you reckon that bees and ants don't either?

Maybe you should just stay away from science subjects as it seems that you have a lot of trouble understanding them. ;-)

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Message 1524003 - Posted: 3 Jun 2014, 10:04:37 UTC - in response to Message 1523982.

So I suppose that you reckon that bees and ants don't either?

Maybe you should just stay away from science subjects as it seems that you have a lot of trouble understanding them. ;-)

There is no "science" on this supposed forum. The scientist are too busy doing science to post.

There is a lack of understanding but it is not on my part ;-)
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Message 1524006 - Posted: 3 Jun 2014, 10:11:08 UTC - in response to Message 1524003.

There is no "science" on this supposed forum. The scientist are too busy doing science to post.

Well you can always depart for better shores...

Real Science discussions
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Message 1524071 - Posted: 3 Jun 2014, 14:01:05 UTC - in response to Message 1524003.

So I suppose that you reckon that bees and ants don't either?

Maybe you should just stay away from science subjects as it seems that you have a lot of trouble understanding them. ;-)

There is no "science" on this supposed forum. The scientist are too busy doing science to post.

There is a lack of understanding but it is not on my part ;-)

Of course the lack of understanding is on your part. Evolution never has said that all mutations are going to succeed. In fact it recognises that the chances of a mutation being successful is very small.

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Message 1524214 - Posted: 4 Jun 2014, 0:05:55 UTC - in response to Message 1523901.

Have you ever thought that it's the females that are bringing along this adaption in the males while still allowing a few chirpers to be born so that they can mate with the silent 1's hanging around those chirpers?

Cheers.



Those are kinda harsh words Wiggo, cheers
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Message 1524228 - Posted: 4 Jun 2014, 0:32:42 UTC - in response to Message 1524214.

Have you ever thought that it's the females that are bringing along this adaption in the males while still allowing a few chirpers to be born so that they can mate with the silent 1's hanging around those chirpers?

Cheers.



Those are kinda harsh words Wiggo, cheers

Sorry Julie, but it does seem to be what the those female crickets are doing to continue the species. ;-)

Cheers.

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Message 1524510 - Posted: 4 Jun 2014, 19:05:49 UTC - in response to Message 1524071.

Of course the lack of understanding is on your part. Evolution never has said that all mutations are going to succeed. In fact it recognises that the chances of a mutation being successful is very small.

You agree with Batter Up yet he lacks understanding? Lets move along as there is a lack of understanding and nothing to see here.
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Message 1524513 - Posted: 4 Jun 2014, 19:11:09 UTC - in response to Message 1524228.

Have you ever thought that it's the females that are bringing along this adaption in the males while still allowing a few chirpers to be born so that they can mate with the silent 1's hanging around those chirpers?

Cheers.



Those are kinda harsh words Wiggo, cheers

Sorry Julie, but it does seem to be what the those female crickets are doing to continue the species. ;-)

Cheers.



Ok Wiggo, think I might have misread them:) Cheers!
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Message 1547096 - Posted: 25 Jul 2014, 1:37:55 UTC

Sort of kind of think this might fit in here...?

Fluffy dinosaurs :)

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Message 1547106 - Posted: 25 Jul 2014, 2:24:15 UTC - in response to Message 1547096.

Sort of kind of think this might fit in here...?

Fluffy dinosaurs :)

Nice link
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Message 1547288 - Posted: 25 Jul 2014, 8:00:20 UTC - in response to Message 1547106.

Sort of kind of think this might fit in here...?

Fluffy dinosaurs :)

Nice link


+1:)
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Message 1547341 - Posted: 25 Jul 2014, 10:26:53 UTC

I'm glad to see that evolution is alive and well :-)

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