http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/general-news/20151003/redondo-beach-woman-files-class-action-lawsuit-against-volkswagen-amid-emissions-cheating-scandal?source=most_viewed

And so it begins....

Hopefully succeeds. Including any Criminal Prosecution.

My worry: The Workers, if VW 'goes down'.

Its more than just VW... The scandal has now spread to Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi, with Citroen and Audi also being suspect.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/09/mercedes-honda-mazda-mitsubishi-diesel-emissions-row

Molden said Emissions Analytics had analysed about 50 Euro 6 diesels and 150 Euro 5 diesels, with only five having real-world NOx levels that matched the regulatory test. The failure of the EU’s NOx test to limit real-world emissions, and tackle air pollution, has been known for some years, but specific manufacturers have not been named.

200 car models tested... 5 had results that matched the official EU tests.

Something is rotten in [insert name of nation here].

Green is owned by big oil. Green is the new greed. Gentlemen, hedge your bets.

---

Its more than just VW... The scandal has now spread to Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi, with Citroen and Audi also being suspect.

Perhaps it is evidence that the emission standards are unrealistic and can't be met without hauling around a chemical factory behind your automobile. Maybe makes as much sense as trying to bury the "Carbon" from power plants. My theory of little wrapped candies should also be applied to automotive exhaust.

I am working on a design for extremely long columns that can be used to prop up the sky and to keep it from falling.

http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/general-news/20151003/redondo-beach-woman-files-class-action-lawsuit-against-volkswagen-amid-emissions-cheating-scandal?source=most_viewed

And so it begins....

Hopefully succeeds. Including any Criminal Prosecution.

My worry: The Workers, if VW 'goes down'.

Its more than just VW... The scandal has now spread to Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi, with Citroen and Audi also being suspect.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/09/mercedes-honda-mazda-mitsubishi-diesel-emissions-row

Molden said Emissions Analytics had analysed about 50 Euro 6 diesels and 150 Euro 5 diesels, with only five having real-world NOx levels that matched the regulatory test. The failure of the EU’s NOx test to limit real-world emissions, and tackle air pollution, has been known for some years, but specific manufacturers have not been named.

200 car models tested... 5 had results that matched the official EU tests.

Something is rotten in [insert name of nation here].

I love it when sometimes those headlines r so much different from what is written inside d article!

yes, ONLY d VW had a dual-software...
no, so far ON ONE else cheated!

yes, those tests do show less results in CO2/100km & l/100km...so it's normal that those who spend more fuel, do have more exhaust gases?!
after all nobody in real-life drives like in a test... ;)

but, some figures that r more than 5x more than regulated r somewhat questionable...

---

non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

Its more than just VW... The scandal has now spread to Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi, with Citroen and Audi also being suspect.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/09/mercedes-honda-mazda-mitsubishi-diesel-emissions-row

Molden said Emissions Analytics had analysed about 50 Euro 6 diesels and 150 Euro 5 diesels, with only five having real-world NOx levels that matched the regulatory test. The failure of the EU’s NOx test to limit real-world emissions, and tackle air pollution, has been known for some years, but specific manufacturers have not been named.

200 car models tested... 5 had results that matched the official EU tests.

Something is rotten in [insert name of nation here].

I love it when sometimes those headlines r so much different from what is written inside d article!

yes, ONLY d VW had a dual-software...
no, so far ON ONE else cheated!

yes, those tests do show less results in CO2/100km & l/100km...so it's normal that those who spend more fuel, do have more exhaust gases?!
after all nobody in real-life drives like in a test... ;)

but, some figures that r more than 5x more than regulated r somewhat questionable...

Perhaps YOU should try reading the article(s)?

This isn't about CO2 emissions. It is about NOx (oxides of nitrogen) emissions.

The discrepancy is EXACTLY in the 'software' in the various cars. They WAY under-report the NOx emissions on the computer readout when compared to what actually comes out the exhaust pipe of the vehicle.

Here in the USA, we have emissions testing also in some areas. When it first started in the area I lived in, they put a probe into the exhaust pipe and directly measured the various things in the exhaust every year, and if one item didn't pass, you didn't get the yearly inspection sticker that was LEGALLY required to operate the vehicle on the roads.

Now, in those areas, they just plug into the vehicle's computer and ask it... And THIS is where the car's software's... uhh... 'CHEATS' comes in.

I asked the person at the inspection station how they knew that the car's computer was properly reporting the amount of the various pollutants in the exhaust. They answered "We don't, we have to trust the car's computer."

Perhaps it is time to go back to (at least) yearly direct tests on every car's (and truck's) exhaust gasses, worldwide, to make sure that emissions standards are being adhered to.

Lets look at some of the standards for NOx on a model year 2014 diesel car.

In the EU:

The Euro 6 standard for NOx on a diesel car is 0.08 g/km. (0.06 g/km on a gasoline vehicle).

In the USA:

The Federal Tier II (Bin 5) limit for NOx is 0.07 g/mi.
Or 0.043 g/km...

I chose 'Bin 5' because the EPA requires that a vehicle manufacturer's entire fleet sold have an average value that conforms to that value on NOx emissions.

And before someone complains that NOx is not CO2, therefore off topic, I might remind everyone that the IPCC lists, on Page 6 of its Working Group III, Fifth Assessment Report, Summary for Policymakers:

1. Since 1970, about 25% of anthropogenic GHG emissions has been non-CO2 (expressed in CO2-equivalents).
2. Non-CO2 Anthropogenic GHG emissions (expressed in CO2-equivalents) total 24.2% in 2010.
3. N2O emissions (nitrous oxide, one of the NOx) accounts for about 1/4 of that (6.2%, expressed in CO2-equivalents) in 2010.

So, roughly 1/16 of Anthropogenic GHG emissions in 2010 was N2O (nitrous oxide), one of the NOx'es. Vehicular emissions is certainly one of the major sources of this, along with the agricultural and industrial sectors...

So, yes, NOx emissions by vehicles IS on topic here... Sorry, it isn't all about just CO2.

I leave verification of US/EU vehicular emissions standards as an exercise for the reader.

But, that IPCC report I mentioned is IMPORTANT because it has a LOT of information in it, so I will link it here:

https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg3/ipcc_wg3_ar5_summary-for-policymakers.pdf

The GHG information I have repeated above are from page 6, second paragraph of SPM.3 and summarized nicely in Figure SPM.1 on the beginning of page 7.

Another interesting tidbit is found in Figure SPM.2 on Page 9. It lists the % of Anthropogenic GHG emissions per economic sector in 2010.

Of note are the following 2: The Electricity/Heat Production economic sector @ 25%, and the Transportation economic sector at 14%.

Yes, that is right. *TOGETHER* Electricity production, Building Heat, and Transportation (Planes, Trains, Automobiles, etc.) only account for about 39% of TOTAL Anthropogenic GHG emissions... even lumping in the 'other energy' sector at 9.6% still leaves a small bit over HALF of Anthropogenic GHG emissions untouched.

THIS is why I tend to get irked whenever Martin (and others) post a veritable joygasm every time someone builds a wind turbine, solar panel, or an electric car. They are IGNORING HALF of the PROBLEM.

THIS is why I tend to get irked whenever Martin (and others) post a veritable joygasm every time someone builds a wind turbine, solar panel, or an electric car. They are IGNORING HALF of the PROBLEM.

And that turbine, solar panel ... is transported to the user with a diesel engine that has cheat software installed making the entire process dump more GHG than the amount saved.

Green, it is a big oil owned scam.

---

THIS is why I tend to get irked whenever Martin (and others) post a veritable joygasm every time someone builds a wind turbine, solar panel, or an electric car. They are IGNORING HALF of the PROBLEM.

And that turbine, solar panel ... is transported to the user with a diesel engine that has cheat software installed making the entire process dump more GHG than the amount saved.

Green, it is a big oil owned scam.

Which is where I have such a big beef against the pollution corruption of Big Agribusiness and their unattainable vandalism of our entire world...

Wherein lies the problem of extreme Kapitalism and the so called business with no morals and supposedly no real world responsibility...


How do we reign in the corrupted irresponsible few polluting our world?...

All on our only one planet...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

How do we reign in the corrupted irresponsible few polluting our world?...

Have no customers for them to sell to, reduce world population.

---

Its more than just VW... The scandal has now spread to Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi, with Citroen and Audi also being suspect.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/09/mercedes-honda-mazda-mitsubishi-diesel-emissions-row

Molden said Emissions Analytics had analysed about 50 Euro 6 diesels and 150 Euro 5 diesels, with only five having real-world NOx levels that matched the regulatory test. The failure of the EU’s NOx test to limit real-world emissions, and tackle air pollution, has been known for some years, but specific manufacturers have not been named.

200 car models tested... 5 had results that matched the official EU tests.

Something is rotten in [insert name of nation here].

I love it when sometimes those headlines r so much different from what is written inside d article!

yes, ONLY d VW had a dual-software...
no, so far ON ONE else cheated!

yes, those tests do show less results in CO2/100km & l/100km...so it's normal that those who spend more fuel, do have more exhaust gases?!
after all nobody in real-life drives like in a test... ;)

but, some figures that r more than 5x more than regulated r somewhat questionable...

Perhaps YOU should try reading the article(s)?

This isn't about CO2 emissions. It is about NOx (oxides of nitrogen) emissions.

The discrepancy is EXACTLY in the 'software' in the various cars. They WAY under-report the NOx emissions on the computer readout when compared to what actually comes out the exhaust pipe of the vehicle.

Here in the USA, we have emissions testing also in some areas. When it first started in the area I lived in, they put a probe into the exhaust pipe and directly measured the various things in the exhaust every year, and if one item didn't pass, you didn't get the yearly inspection sticker that was LEGALLY required to operate the vehicle on the roads.

Now, in those areas, they just plug into the vehicle's computer and ask it... And THIS is where the car's software's... uhh... 'CHEATS' comes in.

I asked the person at the inspection station how they knew that the car's computer was properly reporting the amount of the various pollutants in the exhaust. They answered "We don't, we have to trust the car's computer."

Perhaps it is time to go back to (at least) yearly direct tests on every car's (and truck's) exhaust gasses, worldwide, to make sure that emissions standards are being adhered to.

Lets look at some of the standards for NOx on a model year 2014 diesel car.

In the EU:

The Euro 6 standard for NOx on a diesel car is 0.08 g/km. (0.06 g/km on a gasoline vehicle).

In the USA:

The Federal Tier II (Bin 5) limit for NOx is 0.07 g/mi.
Or 0.043 g/km...

I chose 'Bin 5' because the EPA requires that a vehicle manufacturer's entire fleet sold have an average value that conforms to that value on NOx emissions.

And before someone complains that NOx is not CO2, therefore off topic, I might remind everyone that the IPCC lists, on Page 6 of its Working Group III, Fifth Assessment Report, Summary for Policymakers:

1. Since 1970, about 25% of anthropogenic GHG emissions has been non-CO2 (expressed in CO2-equivalents).
2. Non-CO2 Anthropogenic GHG emissions (expressed in CO2-equivalents) total 24.2% in 2010.
3. N2O emissions (nitrous oxide, one of the NOx) accounts for about 1/4 of that (6.2%, expressed in CO2-equivalents) in 2010.

So, roughly 1/16 of Anthropogenic GHG emissions in 2010 was N2O (nitrous oxide), one of the NOx'es. Vehicular emissions is certainly one of the major sources of this, along with the agricultural and industrial sectors...

So, yes, NOx emissions by vehicles IS on topic here... Sorry, it isn't all about just CO2.

I leave verification of US/EU vehicular emissions standards as an exercise for the reader.

But, that IPCC report I mentioned is IMPORTANT because it has a LOT of information in it, so I will link it here:

https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg3/ipcc_wg3_ar5_summary-for-policymakers.pdf

The GHG information I have repeated above are from page 6, second paragraph of SPM.3 and summarized nicely in Figure SPM.1 on the beginning of page 7.

Another interesting tidbit is found in Figure SPM.2 on Page 9. It lists the % of Anthropogenic GHG emissions per economic sector in 2010.

Of note are the following 2: The Electricity/Heat Production economic sector @ 25%, and the Transportation economic sector at 14%.

Yes, that is right. *TOGETHER* Electricity production, Building Heat, and Transportation (Planes, Trains, Automobiles, etc.) only account for about 39% of TOTAL Anthropogenic GHG emissions... even lumping in the 'other energy' sector at 9.6% still leaves a small bit over HALF of Anthropogenic GHG emissions untouched.

THIS is why I tend to get irked whenever Martin (and others) post a veritable joygasm every time someone builds a wind turbine, solar panel, or an electric car. They are IGNORING HALF of the PROBLEM.

I read the article...& it's a lot of journalist bla-bla!
don't forget, here's a mech.eng. which is specialized in engines with internal combustion! & I've been involved in writing of a book about Eu norms, with respect to UN-ECE regulations & EU directives...

again, NO - there isn't anything different in software in all other manufactures...only dual-software was found by totally different emissions VW?!
why they put more NOx in the air is 'cause they spend more fuel on the real driving traffic, than on lab testing simulation...spending more fuel, spends more CO2/100km & more l/100km (last of which is measurable)...there are tests that prove that driving in normal real conditions spends 20-30% more fuel than tests in lab conditions! ;)

btw, we here in Croatia, EU have technical tests for cars expanding their licences for road traffic every year...not only emission, but also: undercarriage, suspension, lights, etc.
6 we have been using that kind of procedure for about last 30-40 years (that I know of!)...

also, none of the car engines that I know of produces N2O!!!
N2O is highly reactive gas, which burns in engines & produces more kW in engines, used in tuning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide#Internal_combustion_engine
so that gives a clue that YOU really don't understand mechanical engineering & work of engine...& also chemistry in it! ;)
what you need in a car is a NOx gasses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOx#Industrial_sources_.28anthropogenic_sources.29, which comes from N2 i O2 under high temperature & pressure (both of which is present more in diesel cars & newer GDI/FSI engines in non-stoichiometric ratio)...so some cars use "blue technology" of HDI, which uses ammonia for oxidizing NOx + NH4 -> N2 + H2O...
;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2015/10/28/3709322/nasa-co2-health-risk-astronauts/

The 2012 study notes that “out of operational necessity, space platforms function with ambient carbon dioxide (CO2) concentrations in excess of normal atmospheric conditions.” The long-duration Spacecraft Maximum Allowable Concentration [SMAC] used by NASA for CO2 is 7000 ppm (0.7%) because “Extensive terrestrial studies support this level as safe and unlikely to cause adverse effects.”

So humans aren't going to be dropping like flies for some time on earth as others here have posited.

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So humans aren't going to be dropping like flies for some time on earth as others here have posited.

We're not going to suffocate in CO2 we very well could starve due to the economic disruption caused the the heat it helps to retain.

---

Gary Gary Gary ......The Station will have Adults not children .

Adults can survive high concentration Co2 levels but we can't live for prolonged times 2 yrs +

I think you will find when children finally get to live on a Space Station or pressured out post the Co2 will be around 250 ppm .

Also the poster is misleading ppl .

a Quick search show up as a "Head Line"

It’s Taking Less CO2 Than Expected To Cause Health Risks In Astronauts

by Joe Romm Oct 28, 2015 12:35pm

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2015/10/28/3709322/nasa-co2-health-risk-astronauts/

I offer no authenticity to the source ....

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http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2015/10/28/3709322/nasa-co2-health-risk-astronauts/

The 2012 study notes that “out of operational necessity, space platforms function with ambient carbon dioxide (CO2) concentrations in excess of normal atmospheric conditions.” The long-duration Spacecraft Maximum Allowable Concentration [SMAC] used by NASA for CO2 is 7000 ppm (0.7%) because “Extensive terrestrial studies support this level as safe and unlikely to cause adverse effects.”

So humans aren't going to be dropping like flies for some time on earth as others here have posited.

other than "becoming stupid humans", there's no problem with CO2... :D

but, it's not CO2 that bothers me...it's CO & NOx emissions!
;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

other than "becoming stupid humans", there's no problem with CO2... :D

Klik so becoming stupid is ok so long a Puntin is in charge and other world Leaders .

Possible if there in one of them bubble things and feed O2

Then I have no problem with them making the right desition s Like pushing the button BOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMM

who needs a war end it quick and simple

---

hehehe
don't give food for conspiracy theorists...so they can make a theory about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiabeNR_q0U
:D

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

Why Antarctic scientists are clamoring to do vastly more research there — immediately.

Totten Glacier and other glaciers rooted below sea level

Why Antarctic scientists are clamoring to do vastly more research there — immediately.

Totten Glacier and other glaciers rooted below sea level

Yep. They need to do some more research there.

NASA *did* some more there. What they found does NOT match what IPCC etc. are saying. Not exactly...

A new NASA study says that an increase in Antarctic snow accumulation that began 10,000 years ago is currently adding enough ice to the continent to outweigh the increased losses from its thinning glaciers.

The research challenges the conclusions of other studies, including the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) 2013 report, which says that Antarctica is overall losing land ice.

According to the new analysis of satellite data, the Antarctic ice sheet showed a net gain of 112 billion tons of ice a year from 1992 to 2001. That net gain slowed to 82 billion tons of ice per year between 2003 and 2008.

“We’re essentially in agreement with other studies that show an increase in ice discharge in the Antarctic Peninsula and the Thwaites and Pine Island region of West Antarctica,” said Jay Zwally, a glaciologist with NASA Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, and lead author of the study, which was published on Oct. 30 in the Journal of Glaciology. “Our main disagreement is for East Antarctica and the interior of West Antarctica – there, we see an ice gain that exceeds the losses in the other areas.” Zwally added that his team “measured small height changes over large areas, as well as the large changes observed over smaller areas.”

...

http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/nasa-study-mass-gains-of-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses

If correct, and I see no doubt that it is correct, it causes a few problems.

The IPCC currently attributes 0.27mm / year of the measured sea level rise to ice mass loss in Antarctica. But, per the NASA study, there is a net ice mass GAIN in Antarctica sufficient to cause a 0.23mm / year sea level DROP.

Something else is going on to cause the sea level rise that is being measured. Something currently unknown. Something that possibly is not even related to ghg-AGW.

Yes more research .

Data up to 2008

I would say Read the other Article about 2015 's Ice data .

As for more snow falling expected . The Artic currents are stronger and closer to Antarctica .

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/ this is the site you should be checking for info about the current state of the Ice at both Poles .

Things will start to change , head the warning of 2007 when the north pole shrank by 2/3 rds

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Green is the new Greed
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_VOLKSWAGEN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-11-03-16-48-44

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Green is the new Greed
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_VOLKSWAGEN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-11-03-16-48-44

yeah, what did you expect from a NAZI founded company?! :D

apparently, most of the cars breach emissions...but only VW cheated with 2 versions of software! ;)

---

non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

Green is the new Greed
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_VOLKSWAGEN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-11-03-16-48-44

yeah, what did you expect from a NAZI founded company?! :D

apparently, most of the cars breach emissions...but only VW cheated with 2 versions of software! ;)

Green is big oil. Wake up!