Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: Solutions #2


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Message 1521671 - Posted: 27 May 2014, 21:51:48 UTC
Last modified: 27 May 2014, 21:52:45 UTC

We've had a good roller-coaster of the previous thread that has run very quickly very long.

Can the the positive solutions outstrip the denial and procrastination of burning fossil fuels and fossils lobbied politics polluting us all to hell?


Can we work to a solution before we suffer what time might tell?

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Message 1521819 - Posted: 28 May 2014, 6:46:34 UTC
Last modified: 28 May 2014, 6:47:17 UTC

And now for other ways to go from low to high more efficiently:


Could the era of glass skyscrapers be over?

One of the architects behind London's famous Gherkin skyscraper has now turned against glass buildings. Is it time tall towers were made out of something else[?]...

... We need to be much more responsible...

... Glass lets out and lets in a lot of heat. A vast amount of energy is required for an office full of people to remain cool in the UAE and to stay warm in the snowstorms of Toronto. Governments are now so concerned by the long-term impact of "solar gain" - the extent to which a building absorbs sunlight and heats up - that they have introduced strict regulations...

... However, the trade association Glass for Europe has dismissed what they consider "a preconceived idea" that glass is bad...


Note how for this example, it is the "glass trade association" that is squealing denial...

Is the London Shard the last of the great glass skyscrapers?

Hopefully so if there are better more efficient more effective ways!

Martin, I dont what the property of glass can be or do. But it seems to me that The glass makers could make some big bucks by developeing glass that would reflect heat during the day in summer and in winter letting it pass through. Then at night keeping it in.
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Message 1521885 - Posted: 28 May 2014, 10:33:03 UTC - in response to Message 1521819.
Last modified: 28 May 2014, 10:36:42 UTC

... However, the trade association Glass for Europe has dismissed what they consider "a preconceived idea" that glass is bad...


Note how for this example, it is the "glass trade association" that is squealing denial...

Is the London Shard the last of the great glass skyscrapers?

Hopefully so if there are better more efficient more effective ways!

Martin, I dont what the property of glass can be or do. But it seems to me that The glass makers could make some big bucks by developeing glass that would reflect heat during the day in summer and in winter letting it pass through. Then at night keeping it in.

Very much so.

We already have coatings and additives to glass that can filter specific wavebands of light so that you can for example have 'tinted' glass to block or reflect visible light, or 'thermal coatings' to reflect infrared heat. So, a lot is possible already.

However...

There is a lot of glass manufacture using older manufacturing plant that can't yet do that sort of trickery without new investment...

Hence the automatic knee-jerk reaction to deny anything new needs to be done?...

All a parallel denial as seen for the Fossil Fuels lobbying to procrastinate to profit longer from existing polluting ways?...


The story should be how we can advance and profit from new tech and new materials and new better ways. Not how the old denies and sabotages the present and the new.

For the example for the use of glass in buildings, that is one that the architects and property developers need to push. However, we also have a dire problem of an uneducated building industry that has evolved to build cheap crap to sell at a low price yet for maximum profit that is then forevermore expensive for the upkeep for the owners.

The major costs of upkeep are hidden to be suffered AFTER the poor build has been done to merely superficially 'look good'. How do we fix that?!


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Message 1521887 - Posted: 28 May 2014, 10:39:36 UTC
Last modified: 28 May 2014, 10:45:35 UTC

Can this make enough of a splash to make a positive difference?


Greenpeace - Norway: Protect Bear Island [from Big Oil]

BREAKING: 15 Greenpeace volunteers have occupied Statoil's rig to hold off the drilling.

Arctic wildlife paradise Bear Island is under threat from oil company Statoil.

Sign now to ask Norway’s government to cancel the plans for good.



Might enough world noise and world attention deflect the continued pollution?


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Message 1522374 - Posted: 29 May 2014, 12:39:23 UTC
Last modified: 29 May 2014, 12:41:09 UTC

Is this an example of where the positive cleaner solutions are looking scarily too effective and too good for the old dirty polluting Fossils to allow to happen?


Ditching renewables will punch Aussies in the wallet – Bloomberg

The Australian government's plan to scrap its Renewable Energy Target (RET), pitched as a way to cut power bills down under, will drive up electricity prices...

... while the short-term (2015 to 2020) cost of the RET to consumers is AU$500m (£275m, $462m), in the longer term, scrapping the target will sting consumers AU$2bn (£1.10bn, $1.85bn) a year.

The reasoning is simple: the RET as it stands today has attracted investments that would add more than 14 gigawatts of power capacity from non-fossil fuel sources to the grid by 2020. Once in place, that eco-friendly generation would drive down wholesale prices...

... the potential competition from renewables is what's behind the push by fossil-fuel generators to have the target scrapped...



Here's hoping the government has enough spine, spunk, XXXX, and concern for the world to force the polluters to clean up their act, physically and politically!

Meanwhile, what of the rest of the world?!


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Message 1522999 - Posted: 31 May 2014, 14:32:32 UTC

A very interesting idea. All the more interesting for how the development is being funded.

Will it work?!


Solar Roadways

Solar panels that you can drive, park, and walk on. They melt snow and... cut greenhouse gases by 75-percent?...

... Solar Roadways is a modular paving system of solar panels that can withstand the heaviest of trucks (250,000 pounds). These Solar Road Panels can be installed on roads, parking lots, driveways, sidewalks, bike paths, playgrounds... literally any surface under the sun. They pay for themselves primarily through the generation of electricity, which can power homes and businesses connected via driveways and parking lots. A nationwide system could produce more clean renewable energy than a country uses as a whole...

... other features as well, including: heating elements to stay snow/ice free, LEDs to make road lines and signage, and attached Cable Corridor to store and treat stormwater and provide a "home" for power and data cables. EVs will be able to charge with energy from the sun (instead of fossil fuels) from parking lots and driveways...



Solar power literally hits the streets.

There is an awful lot of roadway surface that can be usefully 're-purposed'...


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Message 1523014 - Posted: 31 May 2014, 15:28:55 UTC - in response to Message 1522999.
Last modified: 31 May 2014, 15:29:51 UTC

Great!!

Where can I buy one, what's the part number, what is the price ??

Tis a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

I'm still waiting for solar roof shingles which are more likely to happen than this fantasy. I will buy them as soon as they are available and will cost the price of expensive shingles plus a little more that will amortize in 5 years at 10 cents per kilowatt/hr

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Message 1523018 - Posted: 31 May 2014, 15:50:18 UTC - in response to Message 1523014.
Last modified: 31 May 2014, 15:52:48 UTC

... I'm still waiting for solar roof shingles which are more likely to happen than this fantasy. I will buy them as soon as they are available and will cost the price of expensive shingles plus a little more that will amortize in 5 years at 10 cents per kilowatt/hr

That sounds just like an armchair King Canut resplendent in slippers and pina-colada commanding the rest of the world to do all the work... Hopefully not a majority view.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world is making the world as we know it.


A few more voices and deeds to overcome the polluting corruption of The Fossils may well help to tip the balance to a better future...


Just to remind of the obvious:

Obviously they can be made. The wider game is what is most useful for what we have now.

And to divert the Fossil subsidies into going clean and non-polluting.


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Message 1523020 - Posted: 31 May 2014, 15:55:00 UTC - in response to Message 1523014.
Last modified: 31 May 2014, 16:07:31 UTC

I will buy them as soon as they are available and will cost the price of expensive shingles plus a little more that will amortize in 5 years at 10 cents per kilowatt/hr

How many years do your existing shingles last? That is the time you have to amoritze their cost. Why would you choose a shorter time period for solar shingles? Their cost should amoritzed over their life span.
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Message 1523092 - Posted: 31 May 2014, 20:30:50 UTC - in response to Message 1523020.
Last modified: 31 May 2014, 20:34:21 UTC

You are right. Roof shingles last about 20 years or so. I consider them to be a necessity to keep water from destroying my house. Since there are alternatives to obtaining electricity, I would view solar roof shingles as an investment that I would like to break even on in a short amount of time. Since they would be unproven and only work during sunlight I would consider them as a srmewhat risky and problematic investment for which I would want to reap a reward after 5 years or so.

Let's wait and see what the industry can provide and at what cost including installation, cyclo-conversion and safety equipment for not back feeding the transmission system while a lineman is working on a power outage.

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Message 1523132 - Posted: 31 May 2014, 23:02:09 UTC - in response to Message 1523092.
Last modified: 31 May 2014, 23:31:14 UTC

Let's wait and see what the industry can provide and at what cost including installation, cyclo-conversion and safety equipment for not back feeding the transmission system while a lineman is working on a power outage.

Yes until solar shingles are commercially available one can not properly determine the amortization as for the engineering I think that is pretty cut and dry. As to breaking even in a short time frame we all would, and to make a profit in the shortest time possible but if it takes longer to make a profit I consider a longer time to make a profit better than no profit.
As an aside green living can be more cost effective than not. I recycle a fair amount and it save me money in waste disposal costs and also happens to be the right thing.
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Message 1523205 - Posted: 1 Jun 2014, 3:39:29 UTC

Where I live we have been recycling for 20 years. And it sure does reduce what the garbage man takes away. At first it was a pain to rinse out the food cans and glass jars. But its second nature now. Our soda, water and beer containers we redeem for cash. That also helps reduce the trash mans burden.

I am also a 1/3 of the way in replacing all my CFL bulbs with LED's.
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Message 1523209 - Posted: 1 Jun 2014, 4:07:22 UTC - in response to Message 1523205.

Yes, intelligent green save you greenbacks and is a small part of the answer.
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Message 1523541 - Posted: 2 Jun 2014, 9:41:24 UTC - in response to Message 1523014.

Great!!

Where can I buy one, what's the part number, what is the price ??

Tis a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

I'm still waiting for solar roof shingles which are more likely to happen than this fantasy. I will buy them as soon as they are available and will cost the price of expensive shingles plus a little more that will amortize in 5 years at 10 cents per kilowatt/hr

Well they have to develop them first, raising the funds is the first step on the ladder.

If everyone took your attitude we'd still be bashing rocks together in caves.
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Message 1523543 - Posted: 2 Jun 2014, 9:48:36 UTC

The US President is now going to announce rules on limiting carbon emissions from old power stations using the Clean Air Act and bypassing Congress.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/markets/president-barack-obama-to-announce-rules-on-limiting-carbon-emissions/story-e6frfm30-1226939857328

THE Obama administration today plans to make public the first rules limiting carbon emissions from the thousands of power plants.

The pollution controls form the cornerstone of President Barack Obama's campaign to combat climate change and a key element of his legacy.

Obama says the rules are essential to curb the heat-trapping greenhouse gases blamed for global warming. Critics contend the rules will kill jobs, drive up electricity prices and shutter plants across the country.

Environmentalists and industry advocates alike are eagerly awaiting the specifics, which the Environmental Protection Agency will make public for the first time (on Tuesday, Australian time) and Obama will champion from the White House.

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Message 1523565 - Posted: 2 Jun 2014, 11:22:43 UTC - in response to Message 1523543.
Last modified: 2 Jun 2014, 11:26:31 UTC

The US President is now going to announce rules on limiting carbon emissions from old power stations using the Clean Air Act and bypassing Congress.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/markets/president-barack-obama-to-announce-rules-on-limiting-carbon-emissions/story-e6frfm30-1226939857328

Thanks for that.


THE Obama administration today plans to make public the first rules limiting carbon emissions from the thousands of power plants.

... Obama says the rules are essential to curb the heat-trapping greenhouse gases blamed for global warming. Critics contend the rules will kill jobs, drive up electricity prices and shutter plants across the country. ...

What the 'critics' should say is that the new curbs on pollution will drive new investment into cleaner less polluting more modern efficient plant for new jobs and cheaper less polluting power as the old dirty inefficiently expensive old clunkers are decommissioned sooner rather than pollutingly later...


That has hit the news here also:


US to unveil sharp curbs on coal power plants

... The proposals reportedly seek to cut carbon pollution from nearly 1,600 power plants by 30% by 2030. China and India are among the nations that have made similar commitments to stem global warming.

But critics argue the new US rules will cause power plants to close and electricity prices to rise.

"I intend to make sure America is out front in a global framework to preserve our planet," Mr Obama said in a speech last week. "American influence is always stronger when we lead by example. We cannot exempt ourselves from the rules that apply to everyone else."

... seek a 30% cut in carbon emissions by 2030 as compared with 2005 levels...

... The Democratic president has been unable to persuade Republicans in Congress to act on climate change legislation... Now, the Obama administration will rely on a 2007 US Supreme Court ruling that gave the Environmental Protection Agency ... the ability to regulate carbon dioxide under the Clean Air Act...



So... The numbers have been juggled a little to sound more impressive for still less than what the science suggests is needed. However, still a good step in the right direction.


Meanwhile, politics and industry are still gambling our planet for the sake of industrial and political profit...

All on our only one planet,
Martin
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Message 1523606 - Posted: 2 Jun 2014, 14:13:02 UTC - in response to Message 1523541.

If everyone took your attitude we'd still be bashing rocks together in caves.


On the contrary: I have always been involved in technological innovation. I also like to separate fact from fiction, hype, chicken little and snake oil.

In time there will be economic and technical reasons for adopting more ingenious solar powered equipment and generators. When that happens i will be the first to adopt.

Just trying to separate current reality from wishful thinking.

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Message 1523617 - Posted: 2 Jun 2014, 14:59:31 UTC - in response to Message 1523606.

If everyone took your attitude we'd still be bashing rocks together in caves.


On the contrary: I have always been involved in technological innovation. I also like to separate fact from fiction, hype, chicken little and snake oil.

In time there will be economic and technical reasons for adopting more ingenious solar powered equipment and generators. When that happens i will be the first to adopt.

Just trying to separate current reality from wishful thinking.

Someone posited an idea, and your response was "where can i buy one, it doesn't exist, therefore it's a fanciful idea."

It's not a reality yet, that doesn't mean it won't work.
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Message 1524157 - Posted: 3 Jun 2014, 20:59:10 UTC - in response to Message 1523565.

China finally joins the USA led party:

China to limit carbon emissions for first time

Absolute cap to come into effect, climate adviser says on the day after US announces ambitious carbon plan...

... "The government will use two ways to control CO2 emissions in the next five-year plan, by intensity and an absolute cap," Reuters reported He as saying. Though not a government official, He is a high level advisor...

... “The signal He Jiankun delivered, if it does represent the government view, is a positive note. But we need to see a number and we need some clarification,” he said. “The key battle we lost with the energy cap is that it’s aspirational and not attached to administrative consequences. That makes the seriousness of the target questionable.”...



Good positive noises at very long last from both China (above) and the USA (below).

Hopefully, the thus far glacial pace of the politics to clean up our pollution will speed up faster than the melt of all our glaciers...

There is a long way to go yet to pull back from the ongoing destructive brinksmanship of profitable pollution and greed.



The US President is now going to announce rules on limiting carbon emissions from old power stations using the Clean Air Act and bypassing Congress.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/markets/president-barack-obama-to-announce-rules-on-limiting-carbon-emissions/story-e6frfm30-1226939857328

Thanks for that.


THE Obama administration today plans to make public the first rules limiting carbon emissions from the thousands of power plants.

... Obama says the rules are essential to curb the heat-trapping greenhouse gases blamed for global warming. Critics contend the rules will kill jobs, drive up electricity prices and shutter plants across the country. ...

What the 'critics' should say is that the new curbs on pollution will drive new investment into cleaner less polluting more modern efficient plant for new jobs and cheaper less polluting power as the old dirty inefficiently expensive old clunkers are decommissioned sooner rather than pollutingly later...


That has hit the news here also:


US to unveil sharp curbs on coal power plants

... The proposals reportedly seek to cut carbon pollution from nearly 1,600 power plants by 30% by 2030. China and India are among the nations that have made similar commitments to stem global warming.

But critics argue the new US rules will cause power plants to close and electricity prices to rise.

"I intend to make sure America is out front in a global framework to preserve our planet," Mr Obama said in a speech last week. "American influence is always stronger when we lead by example. We cannot exempt ourselves from the rules that apply to everyone else."

... seek a 30% cut in carbon emissions by 2030 as compared with 2005 levels...

... The Democratic president has been unable to persuade Republicans in Congress to act on climate change legislation... Now, the Obama administration will rely on a 2007 US Supreme Court ruling that gave the Environmental Protection Agency ... the ability to regulate carbon dioxide under the Clean Air Act...



So... The numbers have been juggled a little to sound more impressive for still less than what the science suggests is needed. However, still a good step in the right direction.


Meanwhile, politics and industry are still gambling our planet for the sake of industrial and political profit...


All on our only one planet,
Martin
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Message 1524904 - Posted: 5 Jun 2014, 23:20:38 UTC

Is there some covert lobbying at play here to increase solar costs and so procrastinate yet longer the demise of the old polluting Fossils?


US seeks fresh China solar tariffs

The US has proposed higher and more extensive tariffs on Chinese solar panels. The Department of Commerce said it plans to impose duties of between 19% to 35%...

... critics have argued that imposing high duties will push up the prices of solar panels and discourage consumers from switching to renewable energy.

"The ruling is a major setback for the entire US solar industry because it will immediately increase the price of solar power and cost American jobs in one of fastest-growing sectors of the US economy," said the Coalition for Affordable Solar Energy...



All a game of dirty play?


All on our only one planet,
Martin
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