Maybe the molecules and atoms that make up my body were there at the beginning but I'm pretty sure I only came on the scene 64+ years ago not being a believer in reincarnation.

What will be will be. The combined knowledge of all mankind doesn't know so we, collective we, hope, assume and pray.

This would be better than a pulsating universe but not as likely. Supposedly Jesus made some mighty fine wine.

Matthew 26:29
But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

After 60 years old we are all in the fox holes of life.

Other than that I would recommend that you have a chat with your local priest, who maybe is better placed to answer your question to your satisfaction. Or the JW's they have some interesting literature.

I have spoken with Jehovah Witness and I find them not to be pompous asses.

Sorry for getting metaphysical but this topic is about the end time or, horror, the end of time.

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Maybe the molecules and atoms that make up my body were there at the beginning but I'm pretty sure I only came on the scene 64+ years ago not being a believer in reincarnation.

What will be will be. The combined knowledge of all mankind doesn't know so we, collective we, hope, assume and pray.

This would be better than a pulsating universe but not as likely. Supposedly Jesus made some mighty fine wine.

Matthew 26:29
But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

After 60 years old we are all in the fox holes of life.

Other than that I would recommend that you have a chat with your local priest, who maybe is better placed to answer your question to your satisfaction. Or the JW's they have some interesting literature.

I have spoken with Jehovah Witness and I find them not to be pompous asses.

Sorry for getting metaphysical but this topic is about the end time or, horror, the end of time.

Talking about metaphysical, maybe someone will start a thread on the subject once:)

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rOZZ
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From my understanding, there is not enough matter in the universe to cause a big crunch, and that possibility has been ruled out. I believe this is true even without out dark matter or dark energy, but the rate of expansion is increasing. As dark energy seems to be the reason, and there is not enough mass in the universe to collapse it, then it looks like we are on a one way trip.

One of the M-theory ideas, is that two branes are waving, and somehow come in contact at various places every few trillion years. The result would be another universe, however, if that were to occur within our existing universe, it would be like a fireworks display, with one bang filling in the gaps of the previous one.

Steve

Edit: of course our universe is only 13.75 billion years old, so trillions of years is still quite a way off.

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

From my understanding, there is not enough matter in the universe to cause a big crunch, and that possibility has been ruled out. I believe this is true even without out dark matter or dark energy, but the rate of expansion is increasing. As dark energy seems to be the reason, and there is not enough mass in the universe to collapse it, then it looks like we are on a one way trip.

One of the M-theory ideas, is that two branes are waving, and somehow come in contact at various places every few trillion years. The result would be another universe, however, if that were to occur within our existing universe, it would be like a fireworks display, with one bang filling in the gaps of the previous one.

Steve

Edit: of course our universe is only 13.75 billion years old, so trillions of years is still quite a way off.

Thank you Steve, that's a very realistic view on the matter. :)

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rOZZ
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[quote]From my understanding, there is not enough matter in the universe to cause a big crunch, and that possibility has been ruled out. I believe this is true even without out dark matter or dark energy, but the rate of expansion is increasing. As dark energy seems to be the reason, and there is not enough mass in the universe to collapse it, then it looks like we are on a one way trip.

...to make way for a new one :)

I do worry

Why? You and I will never know one way or the other in our lifetimes, whether anyone else exists out there. So what? If we find them we do, if not we don't. In the meantime this life of ours that we do have here and now, is rather more important.

+2

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

I do worry

Why? You and I will never know one way or the other in our lifetimes, whether anyone else exists out there. So what? If we find them we do, if not we don't. In the meantime this life of ours that we do have here and now, is rather more important.

+2

That reminds me of my own saying. "In the short term, everything matters. In the long term, nothing matters."

In the day to day events of our lives, we all need to pay bills, provide food, and worry about relationships and other issues. At some point, assuming man manages to survive that long, the sun will swallow the earth, and every trace of what we are, will be incinerated, except for the radio waves we have sent into space.

As I indicated in another thread, if you take the entire age of the earth from beginning to end, and shrank it to one millisecond, the rest of the known universe would last a trillion years.

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

In the meantime this life of ours that we do have here and now, is rather more important.

Of course it is that is the way it was set up or just is. It is part of the brains reward system.

Batter Up, i know you didn't say it was your belief but you might be able to answer my question.

I have no real belief but I do observe. I take comfort in knowing as much as the greatest minds that ever lived when it comes to why are we here. Also in the fact that in the end we all end up tied. I can't get into dark matter and other theories because I'm clueless. I do know that 13.7 + 13.7 doesn't = 98 and no one has the math to prove it does.

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That is fascinating; you give the best links. Please continue.

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I do know that 13.7 + 13.7 doesn't = 98 and no one has the math to prove it does.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. Maybe i missed something.

I do know that 13.7 + 13.7 doesn't = 98 and no one has the math to prove it does.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. Maybe i missed something.

I'm a simple man and only understand simple things. The age of the Universe is 13.7 billion years old. In the beginning everything was a singularity then BANG things started moving away from each other. So even if they move away from each other at the speed of light the farthest they can be away from each outer is 27.4 billion years yet some objects are 98 billion light years apart.

I have been given links about expanding space between objects not being counted as speed. This may or may not be true as no one had the math to prove it.

I guess what I'm trying to point out is there are stranger things happening in the Universe than are even dreamed of in philosophy.

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I do know that 13.7 + 13.7 doesn't = 98 and no one has the math to prove it does.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. Maybe i missed something.

I'm a simple man and only understand simple things. The age of the Universe is 13.7 billion years old. In the beginning everything was a singularity then BANG things started moving away from each other. So even if they move away from each other at the speed of light the farthest they can be away from each outer is 27.4 billion years yet some objects are 98 billion light years apart.

I have been given links about expanding space between objects not being counted as speed. This may or may not be true as no one had the math to prove it.

I guess what I'm trying to point out is there are stranger things happening in the Universe than are even dreamed of in philosophy.

Hi Batter Up. Es99 posted this in another thread. Might prove useful.

I thought I explained that matter did not go faster than the speed of light. I don't think you have me filtered, but I will explain again.

The space-time continuum is expanding faster than the speed of light, the spaces between objects is getting larger. Much like if draw two dots on a balloon then as you inflate the balloon the dots will get further apart.

This is the sort of maths you need Metric Tensor to understand the theory of general relativity (how space-time curves).

It was in the "How do you measure time in space?" thread.

Hi Batter Up. Es99 posted this in another thread. Might prove useful.

Yes I saw that but what if we do away with angles. Starting with the singularity two objects move away from each other in a straight line. This I assume would be the diameter, no angle, of the Universe.

a and c start at bb 13.7 billion years ago. BANG they move away from each other at the speed of light, one dot equals one billion light years. They should be in this postilion today.

a..............bb..............c

But they are not, they are in this postilion.

a..............................................bb..............................................c

So at some point they moved faster than the speed of light.

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Hi Batter Up. Es99 posted this in another thread. Might prove useful.

Yes I saw that but what if we do away with angles. Starting with the singularity two objects move away from each other in a straight line. This I assume would be the diameter, no angle, of the Universe.

a and c start at bb 13.7 billion years ago. BANG they move away from each other at the speed of light, one dot equals one billion light years. They should be in this postilion today.

a..............bb..............c

But they are not, they are in this postilion.

a..............................................bb..............................................c

So at some point they moved faster than the speed of light.

Try these... haven't fully read them all the way through myself yet, suffered momentary eye-spin syndrome :) but will do so in a little while when I have fewer distractions... DID YOU HEAR THAT LIFE - FEWER DISTRACTIONS!! :)

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=575

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=387

Try these... haven't fully read them all the way through myself yet, suffered momentary eye-spin syndrome :) but will do so in a little while when I have fewer distractions... DID YOU HEAR THAT LIFE - FEWER DISTRACTIONS!! :)

Same balloon explanation but with raisins in rising dough. I understand expansion with objects moving on a curve but what about the raisins that are not moving on a curve away from each other? The diameter is a straight line like my a and c, no moving on a curve.

I'm a simple man can someone draw me a picture? It appears no picture is possible because the Universe expanded into nu-univers so the laws of physics didn't apply. Now get this, because my a and c could not see each outer they didn't know they were moving away from each other faster than light. HUH? I wold rather hang with Jesus and his Dad drinking wine.

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But the messages get delayed and don't arrive until 1 hour later. At that time the cars are still travelling at 50mph, the combined speed away from each other is still 100 mph, but the distance between them is now 200 miles.

Provided they know the speed of the cars, the timing, and the delay factor, the drivers can calculate where each other really are when they get the message.

That is not the same as saying, with correction factors figured in, the Universe is 13.7 billions years old but 98 billion light years across. It would be more like the cars being 600 miles apart even though their speed is governed at 50 MPH.

It appears to have something to do with the Universe expanding into nu-univers, with the un-univers not bound by our laws of physics. Then the question is what is the un-univers like and do they have good schools.

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http://scienceline.org/2007/07/ask-romero-speedoflight/

That might help a bit. The article basically says that although objects embedded in space-time cannot move faster than light space-time itself does not have that restriction. Kinda like 2 cars driving away from each other on a road, although neither car can reach or exceed light speed the road can. So to make it appear that a car is moving faster than light all we have to do is move the road on which the car is travelling. That would be why the universe is bigger than the speed of light allows, because the galaxies are embedded in something that can move faster than light.

http://scienceline.org/2007/07/ask-romero-speedoflight/

That might help a bit. The article basically says that although objects embedded in space-time cannot move faster than light space-time itself does not have that restriction. Kinda like 2 cars driving away from each other on a road, although neither car can reach or exceed light speed the road can. So to make it appear that a car is moving faster than light all we have to do is move the road on which the car is travelling. That would be why the universe is bigger than the speed of light allows, because the galaxies are embedded in something that can move faster than light.

Very clearly put, thanks Andrew :)

http://scienceline.org/2007/07/ask-romero-speedoflight/

That might help a bit. The article basically says that although objects embedded in space-time cannot move faster than light space-time itself does not have that restriction. Kinda like 2 cars driving away from each other on a road, although neither car can reach or exceed light speed the road can. So to make it appear that a car is moving faster than light all we have to do is move the road on which the car is travelling. That would be why the universe is bigger than the speed of light allows, because the galaxies are embedded in something that can move faster than light.

Very clearly put, thanks Andrew :)

+1

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rOZZ
Music
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In my analogy the moving road is the expansion of space-time due to the big bang and inflation. That is why the road is moving because space-time itself is expanding and that expansion is not restricted by the speed of light. When we talk about the big bang we are not only discussing the creation of matter but also the creation and expansion of space-time, that is why space-time is not static.
I'm just giving a reason why galaxies could appear to move FTL. Your reasons for a 98b ly wide universe are also correct, things do move in the time that it takes for their light to reach our eye so the universe is actually larger than it appears.