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Jack
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Message 1514537 - Posted: 10 May 2014, 23:17:20 UTC

Like a pendulum, everything runs in cycles. To and fro, left and right. Up and down and all that's in between. Of course there's climate change. Forty years ago scientist were warning of a pending ice age. Now the pendulum has swung the other way and they are warning of a warming climate with its dire consequences. What will it be in another ~30-40 years? Eggs are bad....eggs are good. Coffee is bad....coffee is good. Chocolate is bad....chocolate is good. And on and on.

If you don't like the current drum beat, wait awhile. It will change....just like our climate.
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Message 1514545 - Posted: 10 May 2014, 23:30:40 UTC - in response to Message 1514537.
Last modified: 10 May 2014, 23:36:46 UTC

... Forty years ago scientist were warning of a pending ice age...

Except...

They were not.

Sorry to spoil that old oft-repeated myth... Goes alongside the conspiracy theory that America used a film set instead of landing astronauts on our moon...


Meanwhile, there is no denying that we are polluting our planet into an unnatural hell... Except that we already have the tech to be not polluting ourselves to hell. But that's already in three other ongoing threads...

Keep searchin',
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Message 1514563 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 0:06:24 UTC - in response to Message 1514545.

Meanwhile, there is no denying that we are polluting our planet into an unnatural hell...

I wold suggest you stop wasting power with your constant droning about this subject. It's like Al Gore flying a private jet to a global warming rally. Or do you have an atomic PC?
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Message 1514577 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 0:33:54 UTC - in response to Message 1514563.

Ya but he is spouting an observable fact. I suggest you look at what is happening to the shellfish on the west coast, the droughts in the SW and subway tunnels flooding in NYC as examples and then try to explain how it is part of the natural cycle.
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Message 1514592 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 0:57:53 UTC

Is the drum beat changing already?

First is Global warming. Then Climate change.

Now http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2010/01/10/mini-ice-age-to-start-in-2013-claims-new-research/
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Message 1514596 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 1:07:57 UTC

Remember that scare about the Ozone layer?

Or lead in paint and gasoline?
Or tobacco?
Or agent orange?

Stupid scientific types trying to tell us when there is a problem. All we have to do is wait for it to go away on its own.
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Message 1514610 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 1:54:08 UTC
Last modified: 11 May 2014, 1:55:04 UTC

If it were up to you people my house would still be under a mile and half of ice. How did this become a knee jerk political football? OK fine stop burning fossil fuel. Let's start with civilian aircraft; especially private jets like Al Gore's. This is like all the actors demanding gun control as they glorify gun play in their movies. Lead by example and not with hyperbole.
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Message 1514646 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 5:02:26 UTC - in response to Message 1514577.
Last modified: 11 May 2014, 5:02:57 UTC

Ya but he is spouting an observable fact. I suggest you look at what is happening to the shellfish on the west coast, the droughts in the SW and subway tunnels flooding in NYC as examples and then try to explain how it is part of the natural cycle.

Yes it is!!!

OMG!!! Droughts in a desert!!! Flooding in a harbor!!! Species expanding and decreasing!!! We must stop this!!!

:) :) :)
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Message 1514774 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 16:57:40 UTC

"Tide goes in, tide goes out, you can't explain that!"
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Message 1514777 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 17:00:40 UTC - in response to Message 1514646.

Ya but he is spouting an observable fact. I suggest you look at what is happening to the shellfish on the west coast, the droughts in the SW and subway tunnels flooding in NYC as examples and then try to explain how it is part of the natural cycle.

Yes it is!!!

OMG!!! Droughts in a desert!!! Flooding in a harbor!!! Species expanding and decreasing!!! We must stop this!!!

:) :) :)

A nice well reasoned out, intellectual responce.
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Message 1514789 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 17:35:08 UTC - in response to Message 1514545.

... Forty years ago scientist were warning of a pending ice age...

Except...

They were not.

Sorry to spoil that old oft-repeated myth...


Martin


I was there.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm
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Message 1514792 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 17:38:45 UTC - in response to Message 1514789.

... Forty years ago scientist were warning of a pending ice age...

Except...

They were not.

Sorry to spoil that old oft-repeated myth...


Martin


I was there.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm

There was a cooling effect caused by pollution. The air was cleaned up and we pumped so much CO2 into the air that greenhouse gases became the biggest driver of the climate.
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Message 1514796 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 18:04:40 UTC - in response to Message 1514792.

That may be true. I've read articles that say as much. My point is that what is true today may not be true tomorrow. Things change. Pollution caused cooling...now it's causing warming. Something may happen tomorrow to change the cycle to go the other way again. I've heard that global temps have been stable for the past ~15 years. It won't stay stable and when it starts to move again, who's to say it will continue climbing? It could start back down....depending on that happens in the meantime. The future is impossible to predict. Climate is fluid and constantly changing, along with everything else.

That's not to say we should destroy our planet, but we shouldn't panic either. If we spent our dollars researching ways to improve the emissions from what we have while looking for newer energy resources...maybe we could have our cake and eat it too.

The old saw "Haste make waste" is very true.
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Message 1514798 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 18:10:43 UTC - in response to Message 1514789.

I was there.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm

I remember that; that was about the time science told us we are running out of fossil fuel.
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Message 1514802 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 18:16:30 UTC - in response to Message 1514798.

I was there.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm

I remember that; that was about the time science told us we are running out of fossil fuel.


Indeed it was. I'd forgotten that. According to the predictions then, we should be back in the stone age now.
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Message 1514806 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 18:22:54 UTC - in response to Message 1514789.
Last modified: 11 May 2014, 18:24:26 UTC

... Forty years ago scientist were warning of a pending ice age...

Except...

They were not.

Sorry to spoil that old oft-repeated myth...


Martin


I was there.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm


So was I, though probably a bit on the young side for reading scientific papers :)

Hi Jack :) How are you?

In addition to Es's reply...

From the page you linked:
The fact is that around 1970 there were 6 times as many scientists predicting a warming rather than a cooling planet.


So that's around 86% swinging to... well the current figures claim 97% are predicting warming so... ooh... I don't think I've got my maths wrong but I may have to come back to that :) It doesn't look much of a swing at all. But then, there hasn't been a full pendulum swing away from the earth being flat either :)

As is also pointed out in your link, the media tended to pick up on the ice-age theories as being "more interesting". Hypotheses such as: cold meltwater from icecaps and glaciers shutting off the Gulf stream, so plunging the northern hemisphere into a permanent winter - is easy to write an editorial about. It can go to press long before scientists have finished the much more painstaking work of turning it into a proper testable theory and/or ruling it out on the basis of known scientific principles. And we are advancing those with every passing day - so I personally don't mind if properly done science does result in some shift in the pendulum at times :)

Thanks for the interesting thread though :)

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Message 1514811 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 18:41:09 UTC - in response to Message 1514806.

I believe the media is mostly at "fault" for taking theory as fact and feeding it to the public that way. That's where the general public gets its information. Then it's picked up by the "Chicken Littles" amongst us and the drum beat begins.

Skepticism, IMV, is a healthy thing. It's easy to be skeptical when wild predictions don't come to be. The darling of the global warming crowd, Al Gore, predicted the N. ice cap would be gone by 2013. That was a year ago and it's still there.
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Message 1514815 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 19:08:07 UTC - in response to Message 1514811.

I believe the media is mostly at "fault" for taking theory as fact and feeding it to the public that way. That's where the general public gets its information. Then it's picked up by the "Chicken Littles" amongst us and the drum beat begins.


Something like this you mean (a comment (posted seven years ago) on the article from your link) bold added by little me :)

The case that we will have another glaciation is basically cut and dried. We have the capacity to cool the earth. We have no such capacity to warm the earth. In order to avoid another glaciation we ought to be looking at ways to hose down volcanic aerosols or something.

Certainly we need to build up our nuclear energy production capacity. And our hydrocarbons as well.


:/

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Message 1514816 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 19:17:06 UTC - in response to Message 1514815.

[quote
Certainly we need to build up our nuclear energy production capacity. And our hydrocarbons as well.[/quote]

:/[/quote]

I would add "learn to use them safely" or , at least, more so. Solar and wind is not the total answer. Until we find something that is, we need nuclear and fossil to survive.
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Message 1514820 - Posted: 11 May 2014, 20:25:46 UTC - in response to Message 1514816.
Last modified: 11 May 2014, 20:27:45 UTC


Certainly we need to build up our nuclear energy production capacity. And our hydrocarbons as well.


:/


I would add "learn to use them safely" or , at least, more so. Solar and wind is not the total answer. Until we find something that is, we need nuclear and fossil to survive.


Plus one there... but it's still a big "HUH?!" for me on the hydrocarbon front. Increasing them is a HUGE mistake and solves absolutely nothing at all... but I'll stop there before I begin banging on about trees again :)

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