who speaks for planet earth? who speaks for the human species?


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Profile Byron Leigh Hatch @ team Carl SaganProject donor
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Message 1502287 - Posted: 10 Apr 2014, 18:43:43 UTC

I'm very much interest in your opinions and Ideas ... ... so if you could post your opinions to my question ... if you would care to ... I would be very grateful :)



To what purpose should I trouble myself in searching out the secrets of the stars, having death or slavery continually before my eyes?

- A question put to Pythagoras by Anaximenes ( 600 B.C.), according to Montaigne

How vast those Orbs must be, and how inconsiderable this Earth, the Theatre upon which all our mighty Designs, all our
Navigations, and all our Wars are transacted, is when compared to them. A very fit consideration, and matter of Reflection, for
those Kings and Princes who sacrifice the Lives of so many People, only to flatter their Ambition in being Masters of some pitiful
corner of this small Spot.

- Christiaan Huygens, New Conjectures Concerning the Planetary Worlds, Their Inhabitants and Productions, 1690


‘To the entire world,’ added our Father the Sun, ‘I give my light and my radiance; I give men warmth when they are cold; I cause
their fields to fructify and their cattle to multiply; each day that passes I go around the world to secure a better knowledge of
men’s needs and to satisfy those needs. Follow my example.’

- An Inca myth recorded in ‘The Royal Commentaries’ of Garcilaso de la Vega, 1556


Hello and Greetings to everyone in our SETI@home community.
I hope you are feeling well today.
enjoy your day :)
Best Wishes
Byron


we know who speaks for the nations
but .............

who speaks for planet earth ?

who speaks for the human species ?


As the ancient myth makers knew,
we humans are children equally of the earth and the sky.

In our tenure on this planet
we humans have accumulated dangerous evolutionary baggage,
propensities for aggression and ritual,
submission to leaders, hostility to outsiders,
all of which puts our survival in some doubt.
But we've also acquired compassion for others,
love for our children,
a desire to learn from history and experience
and a great soaring passionate intelligence,
the clear tools for our continued survival and prosperity.
Which aspects of our nature will prevail is uncertain,
particularly when our visions and prospects
are bound to one small part of the small planet Earth.
But up there in the Cosmos an inescapable perspective awaits.

National boundaries are not evident
when we view the Earth from space.
Fanatical ethnic or religious or national chauvinisms
are a little difficult to maintain
when we see our planet
as a fragile blue crescent fading to become
an inconspicuous point of light against
the bastion and citadel of the stars.

There are not yet any obvious signs of extraterrestrial intelligence
and this makes us wonder whether civilizations like ours
always rush implacably, headlong, toward self-destruction.

National boundaries are not evident when we view the Earth from space.
Fanatical ethnic or religious or national chauvinisms
are a little difficult to maintain when we see our planet
as a fragile blue crescent fading
to become an inconspicuous point of light
against the bastion and citadel of the stars.

I think about this ...

our global civilisation is clearly
on the edge of failure and
the most important task we humans faces is
preserving the lives and well-being of its citizens
and the future habitability of the planet.

But if we're willing to live with the growing likelihood of nuclear war or Global Warming,
shouldn't we also been willing to explore vigorously
every possible means to prevent nuclear war or slow Warming.

Shouldn't we consider in every nation
major changes in the traditional ways of doing things?
a fundamental restructuring of:
economic
political
social
and
religious institutions

We've reached a point where there
can be no more special interests
or special cases,
Global Warming and nuclear arms
threaten every person on the Earth.

Fundamental changes in society are
sometimes labelled impractical or
contrary to human nature,
as if nuclear war were practical
or as if there's only one human nature.

But fundamental changes can clearly be made
we're surrounded by them.

In the last two centuries
abject slavery which was with us for thousands
of years has almost entirely
been eliminated in a stirring
worldwide revolution.
Women, systematically mistreated
for millennia are gradually
gaining the political and
economic power traditionally denied them

and some wars of aggression
have recently been stopped or curtailed
because of a revulsion
felt by the people in the aggressor nations.

The old appeals
to racial, sexual, religious, chauvinism,
and to rabid nationalist fervor
are beginning not to work.

A new consciousness is developing
on planet Earth which
sees the Earth as a single organism
and recognizes that an organism
at war with itself is doomed.

History is full of people who out of fear
or ignorance or the lust for power
have destroyed treasures of immeasurable value
which truly belong to all of us

We must not let it happen again!

we know who speaks for the nations
but .............

who speaks for planet earth ?

who speaks for the human species ?

I'm very much interest in your opinions and Ideas ...

... so if you could please post your opinions to my question ... if you would care to ... I would be very grateful :)




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Message 1502362 - Posted: 10 Apr 2014, 21:16:26 UTC

If I would be that voice.

That voice would be a sign or a message in space saying.

Warning!! Extreme caution if enter.


...

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Message 1502365 - Posted: 10 Apr 2014, 21:20:15 UTC - in response to Message 1502362.

If I would be that voice.

That voice would be a sign or a message in space saying.

Warning!! Extreme caution if enter.


...


...and here's the reason why.....

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.
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Message 1502366 - Posted: 10 Apr 2014, 21:23:10 UTC

Shakespeare spoke;

“Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and is heard no more. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
The same goes for the Earth; out, out, brief Sun.
____________

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Message 1502430 - Posted: 10 Apr 2014, 23:11:02 UTC - in response to Message 1502287.

who speaks for the human species ?


Nobody. Nor should there be. We each speak for ourselves.

Homo Sapiens has currently a population of about 7 Billion *individuals*, each with their own thoughts, ideas, opinions, and beliefs.

How could there possibly be a single voice speaking for us?

The only ways I can think of to have a singular voice speaking for us would rob us of either our freedom and dignity, or our essential humanity.

You condemn 'submission to leaders' as a negative survival trait. Furthermore you condemn (and rightly so) slavery.

You are not advocating anarchy, for then there would be 7 Billion voices, not one.

You are not advocating (or are you) a one-world-government, for then everyone would have to 'submit to the leader'.

a fundamental restructuring of:
economic
political
social
and
religious institutions


forced re-education camps?!?! That way lies slavery (loss of freedom to be yourself).

Perhaps the problem is not that we have too *many* nations, but instead that we have too *few*.

It looks to me like you are having a Utopian fantasy. Nothing wrong with having one, but they don't work. Remember, there never HAS been a Utopia. However, there have been (even today) a number of Dystopias.

A 'one-world-government' would be a Dystopia. No other way to make it work.

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Message 1502440 - Posted: 10 Apr 2014, 23:28:02 UTC

I would have trusted Nelson Mandela to do so. But now... perhaps a young child... who dreams of growing up.

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Message 1502455 - Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 0:14:45 UTC - in response to Message 1502440.

I would have trusted Nelson Mandela to do so. But now... perhaps a young child... who dreams of growing up.

Mandela?

YES!!!

How many others could you name?
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Message 1502457 - Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 0:30:54 UTC - in response to Message 1502455.

How many others could you name?

Gahndi, MLK?
____________

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Message 1502460 - Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 0:36:52 UTC - in response to Message 1502455.

I would have trusted Nelson Mandela to do so. But now... perhaps a young child... who dreams of growing up.

Mandela?

YES!!!

How many others could you name?


Ooh... um... er... well... let me think... ahem... can I come back to you on that one? :)

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Message 1502463 - Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 0:43:09 UTC - in response to Message 1502457.

How many others could you name?

Gahndi, MLK?

Gandhi & Dr. King were Good, and Necessary people. But I do not believe they rise to the level of Mandela.

Have always said, while speaking of Mandela, even to 'those' who would hate him: He a Better Man than I could ever be.
____________

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Message 1502464 - Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 0:56:00 UTC - in response to Message 1502430.
Last modified: 11 Apr 2014, 0:57:07 UTC


a fundamental restructuring of:
economic
political
social
and
religious institutions


forced re-education camps?!?! That way lies slavery (loss of freedom to be yourself).


It's much more complex. One need to define what is "to be yourself" first. How one becomes "yourself". When entity formed then yes, [s]he can confront with any additional changes treating it as diminishing his freedom rights.
But what about formation of human entity? That where complexity lies. What influent that formation and HOW MUCH conditions of that formation determine the ultimate result...
How my/your "yourself" depends for what you hear in childhood, what you have been told and so on and so forth...
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Message 1502467 - Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 1:09:58 UTC - in response to Message 1502440.

I would have trusted Nelson Mandela to do so. But now... perhaps a young child... who dreams of growing up.

I'm a human and don't want a violent person speaking for me the Church Street bombing killed 19 and wounded 217; the bomb was set to go off at the height of rush hour, those killed and wounded included civilians.. I vote for Jesus. The historical Jesus not his hangers on and that pretender Saul of Tarsus; Gandhi would be number 2.
____________

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Message 1502469 - Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 1:11:15 UTC

Suppose it's not impossible that if it came to speaking for planet earth, humans could get overlooked in favour of... dolphins for example... I mean... they could already be communicating with intelligent species elsewhere in our galaxy... :)

In which case... someone like David Attenborough might do an okay job of speaking for us lot... if he got the chance before we all got zapped for eating tuna of course :/

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Message 1502472 - Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 1:26:44 UTC - in response to Message 1502469.
Last modified: 11 Apr 2014, 1:36:50 UTC

Suppose it's not impossible that if it came to speaking for planet earth, humans could get overlooked in favour of... dolphins for example... I mean... they could already be communicating with intelligent species elsewhere in our galaxy... :)

Why don't the Aliens tell them to jump over a tuna net that is below the surface? Fisherman don't want them in the net and would not try stopping them. Carp on the other hand do jump over nets even though fisherman want them in the net. Sorry but this is the Political forum.


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Message 1502475 - Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 1:41:32 UTC

Perhaps our uncertainty will
be an indicator of why ET may
came, see, and leave to return
some time later......
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Message 1502476 - Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 1:42:56 UTC - in response to Message 1502467.

I would have trusted Nelson Mandela to do so. But now... perhaps a young child... who dreams of growing up.

I'm a human and don't want a violent person speaking for me the Church Street bombing killed 19 and wounded 217; the bomb was set to go off at the height of rush hour, those killed and wounded included civilians.. I vote for Jesus. The historical Jesus not his hangers on and that pretender Saul of Tarsus; Gandhi would be number 2.


Okay, well lets not forget that Moses - the great lawgiver - was a murderer. People change... some even learn from their mistakes :)

With regard to the tragic incident above... Nelson Mandela was in prison at the time and had no control over what the ANC was doing. He was actually of more use to the ANC terror wing by being in prison... because it freed them to carry out acts of terror he would never have permitted. He later condemned all loss of life. (A bombing of an Afrikaans church allegedly perpetrated by the ANC was carried out by the South African ruling Nationalist party (when calls for the release of Nelson Mandela from within South Africa's white community grew ever more demanding). This may not have been the only incident of this. Never underestimate the power of propaganda and the level people will sink to to stay in power.)

Re Ghandi... he wasn't exactly squeaky clean himself. For a lengthy period of time he believed Indians were superior to Black Africans and those were (for a very long time indeed) the only people he had any interest in representing. He also incited protests (from a safe distance himself usually) amongst the Indian population in South Africa, resulting in them suffering mass torture, shootings, jailings, and flogging of his supporters over a period of seven years. The community had suffered very little if any of that beforehand. Still, it gave him a bigger platform to operate from afterwards.

Don't get me wrong... he is one of my most admired... but not the most. If you're looking for someone perfect to speak for us... well... we're doomed :)

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Message 1502482 - Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 2:10:40 UTC - in response to Message 1502472.
Last modified: 11 Apr 2014, 2:11:43 UTC

Suppose it's not impossible that if it came to speaking for planet earth, humans could get overlooked in favour of... dolphins for example... I mean... they could already be communicating with intelligent species elsewhere in our galaxy... :)

Why don't the Aliens tell them to jump over a tuna net that is below the surface? Fisherman don't want them in the net and would not try stopping them. Carp on the other hand do jump over nets even though fisherman want them in the net. Sorry but this is the Political forum.


:) Oh yeah... politics thread... (oops sorry, Batterup - that smiley should read :[

...fair enough... you must have missed a bit of my post (and my smiley - naughty naughty anniet - this is politics!) whilst you were rushing off to get your picture...

...the bit you missed was an opinion in keeping with the thread I think, but I'll let Byron decide that. In the meantime... I shall restore it for you :) (bum... SORRY!! -> :[

...someone like David Attenborough might do an okay job of speaking for us... and the planet

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Message 1502628 - Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 11:08:40 UTC

Einstein. I'd let Einstein speak for the world.

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Message 1502630 - Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 11:11:46 UTC - in response to Message 1502628.

Einstein. I'd let Einstein speak for the world.



He can't anymore now...
____________


rOZZ

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Message 1502631 - Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 11:18:38 UTC - in response to Message 1502630.

Einstein. I'd let Einstein speak for the world.



He can't anymore now...

Neither can anyone else that has been suggested so far in this thread :)

If I have to pick from the living, maybe I'd pick Bill Gates or Warren Buffet. Or better yet, myself.

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