And reagarding "military mans in specific uniform":

http://news.mail.ru/politics/17857834/gallery/74076/
look pictures. There are armed peoples too, indeed. But regarding their "uniform"... Especially womans on street, in very special camouflage. That camouflage can be called "ordinary citizen" camouflage ...

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Russia retaliates sends tanks to Ukraine, which is on the ‘brink of war’.

http://www.news.com.au/world/russia-retaliates-sends-tanks-to-ukraine-which-is-on-the-brink-of-war/story-fndir2ev-1226885938018

AT least three unmarked armoured personnel carriers bearing the Russian flag drove through the eastern Ukraine town of Kramatorsk today, a day after authorities in Kiev launched an operation to oust pro-Moscow separatists.

Dozens of armed men in camouflage were seated on top of the vehicles as they drove through the town accompanied by a military truck, an AFP photographer said.

Ukraine’s Western-backed prime minister has accused Russia of erecting a new “Berlin Wall” that threatened European security.

“Today’s events... are starting to endanger Europe and the European Union. It is now clear that our Russian neighbours have decided to build a new Berlin Wall and return to the Cold War era,” Arseniy Yatsenyuk told a government meeting.

Pro-Russian forces in Ukraine have “shoot to kill” orders.

Just proves the point that $$$$ & property is more valuable than human life.

Sometimes I'm ashamed to be human:(

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Russia retaliates sends tanks to Ukraine, which is on the ‘brink of war’.

http://www.news.com.au/world/russia-retaliates-sends-tanks-to-ukraine-which-is-on-the-brink-of-war/story-fndir2ev-1226885938018

AT least three unmarked armoured personnel carriers bearing the Russian flag drove through the eastern Ukraine town of Kramatorsk today, a day after authorities in Kiev launched an operation to oust pro-Moscow separatists.

Dozens of armed men in camouflage were seated on top of the vehicles as they drove through the town accompanied by a military truck, an AFP photographer said.

Ukraine’s Western-backed prime minister has accused Russia of erecting a new “Berlin Wall” that threatened European security.

“Today’s events... are starting to endanger Europe and the European Union. It is now clear that our Russian neighbours have decided to build a new Berlin Wall and return to the Cold War era,” Arseniy Yatsenyuk told a government meeting.

Pro-Russian forces in Ukraine have “shoot to kill” orders.

First of all not tanks (just as text says).
Second - looks like Ukraine lost own few (some sources say 3 some 6) vehicles.
They rised russian flag.
http://hi.dn.ua/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45880&catid=55&Itemid=147

http://slavgorod.com.ua/News/Article/837
(this last link has foto and video of those vehicles).

EDIT: and tank was blocked near Slavyansk (but yesterday): http://slavgorod.com.ua/News/Article/823

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SETI apps news
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Shooting on checkpoint.
http://slavgorod.com.ua/news/article/840/

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Ukraine defense ministry confirmed lost of 6 vehicles:
http://www.mil.gov.ua/index.php?lang=ru&part=news&sub=read&id=33958
http://www.mil.gov.ua/index.php?lang=en&part=news&sub=read&id=33962

So, just as I said there were no Russian, there were Ukranian vehicles...
Questions rised what such definitely military and not police forces did there, why "anti-terrorist" operation requires regular army technic and how legal to use such technic against population...

EDIT: and to add a little positive: http://slavgorod.com.ua/news/article/841/ extremal driving on IFV.

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SETI apps news
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So, just as I said there were no Russian, there were Ukranian vehicles...
Questions rised what such definitely military and not police forces did there, why "anti-terrorist" operation requires regular army technic and how legal to use such technic against population...

We should combine this thread with the Double standard on violence thread.

Newark New Jersey 1967. I looked at tanks from both sides, inside is better.

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“Today we have agreed a package of military measures,” NATO head Anders Fogh Rasmussen said on Wednesday after a meeting of all 28 members of the transatlantic alliance.

I can't find the order of battle for the "28 members" other than the natural speed bumps, Poland and such, on EU boarder. The US is not on that boarder so its role should be passing ammunition to the front.

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“Today we have agreed a package of military measures,” NATO head Anders Fogh Rasmussen said on Wednesday after a meeting of all 28 members of the transatlantic alliance.

I can't find the order of battle for the "28 members" other than the natural speed bumps, Poland and such, on EU boarder. The US is not on that boarder so its role should be passing ammunition to the front.

Well, it's multy-moves combination. Quite possible that this is just one of aims for what all this mess was started - to increase military budget and to bind EU even more strongly... USA in its usual style. It's hard to increase military spending w/o little war... pay taxers pay.

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SETI apps news
We're not gonna fight them. We're gonna transcend them.

Well, it's multy-moves combination. Quite possible that this is just one of aims for what all this mess was started - to increase military budget and to bind EU even more strongly... USA in its usual style. It's hard to increase military spending w/o little war... pay taxers pay.

Are you suggesting Obama started this "incident" just to sell more guns to the EU in order to pay for Obama-care? If he did so that is brilliant.

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I can see where you are coming from, but you are reading the wrong set of runes, and are confusing "NATO" - a military organisation, with the EU, which is a political one. In recent years NATO hasn't managed to speak with one voice on military matters (Iraq & Afghanistan are the most obvious). And the EU leaves its defense (military) policy to the individual nations. This has resulted in some very strange, short lasting, alliances forming and dissolving depending on what the subject (country) under discussion is.
A simplistic summary of the attitudes of the European nations is - the further west one goes, the less interested they are in the Ukraine/Russia situation, with the strongest statements coming from those nearest Russia and Ukraine (and a large number of those statements are not "pro-Russia").

What grieves me about today's new is that we are one step closer to serious bloodshed, and I fear that all too soon we will see body bags being returned to mothers.

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Well, it's multy-moves combination. Quite possible that this is just one of aims for what all this mess was started - to increase military budget and to bind EU even more strongly... USA in its usual style. It's hard to increase military spending w/o little war... pay taxers pay.

Are you suggesting Obama started this "incident" just to sell more guns to the EU in order to pay for Obama-care? If he did so that is brilliant.

No, you read w/o attention. I did not say "only". I said one of aims. Just few anothers: to weaken Russia, to prevent EU and Russia cooperation, to prevent Ukraine and Russia cooperation - just a few. So, just as I said - multi-moves combination. Will see how many aims will be reached and how many failed.

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We're not gonna fight them. We're gonna transcend them.

A simplistic summary of the attitudes of the European nations is - the further west one goes, the less interested they are in the Ukraine/Russia situation, with the strongest statements coming from those nearest Russia and Ukraine (and a large number of those statements are not "pro-Russia").

And it's quite sad, that EU so fast forgot... and forgot its' own resolutions.
Make a search of few years ago EU statements regarding nationalist party "Freedom" that at that time rise in Ukraine... EU expressed concern at those times... Now 5 ministers in Ukraine "government" from "Freedom", but it's OK now?... That can be called double-standarts indeed...

All told Yanukovitch "don't use force against maidan". Even don't use police forces... And he obeyed until it was too late... we know in what it resulted - armed coup.
Now Turchinov uses army (!) against protesters... and EU just "loses interest to situation"...

Will see what tomorrow bring. Will that meeting be conducted or not and with wich results...

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No, you read w/o attention. I did not say "only". I said one of aims. Just few anothers: to weaken Russia, to prevent EU and Russia cooperation, to prevent Ukraine and Russia cooperation - just a few. So, just as I said - multi-moves combination. Will see how many aims will be reached and how many failed.

Are you suggesting the US fears Russia joining the EU? The Great Satan strikes again.

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Hm... I think USA (as usual by naming country I understand their elites, not population) has more adequate topics to fear. Russia's enter in EU hardly possible in near (and not so near) future and hardly before "whole-Earth" government would be formed. So nothing to fear here. But more close cooperation, bigger trade relations, less dependence from $ in interstate relations are possible indeed.

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SETI apps news
We're not gonna fight them. We're gonna transcend them.

What grieves me about today's new is that we are one step closer to serious bloodshed, and I fear that all too soon we will see body bags being returned to mothers.

I've felt that for the last decade. Too many are focusing on the more obvious "emotional media" & not looking closely at the underlying agenda & believe me, it's there!

Politics & Religion is a bloody sad reason to die for

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The latest news here on this conflict,

http://www.news.com.au/world/us-readies-more-sanctions-against-russia-nato-responds-to-ukraine-on-the-brink-of-war/story-fndir2ev-1226885861349,

sorry, but still no government propaganda content contained within.

THE United States has warned it is preparing new sanctions against Russia if critical Ukraine talks do not produce concessions from Moscow.

US officials have privately signalled they have little hope of progress from talks between the United States, Russia, Ukraine and the EU.

They’ve also revealed that the toughest available sanctions — targeting key sectors of the Russian economy — would only come into force in the event of a full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Meanwhile, NATO is to deploy more air, sea and land forces in eastern Europe, as pro-Russian militants are accused of taking two Ukrainian soldiers “hostage”.

Why did you allow Russia to control much of your Energy, and therefore your future?

The lack of supply?

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A question many of us have asked, and have received no sensible answer.
We can only guess that it is a combination of big business and pocket lining....

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

WOW!!!

Raistmer is now accusing the U.S.A. for this mess and escalation.

Agree with Batter Up on this Brilliant move by our 'Brilliant' (sic) leader's.

If the situation wasn't so bad...

Just a question to the Non-Russian European's here:

Why did you allow Russia to control much of your Energy, and therefore your future?

We in .se wanted more alternative energy sources. Less fossile fule so Gas would be an asset. And with the Berlin wall down and Russia becoming more open to western trade and more friendly to the EU.
I'd say .se has a good trade partner with Russia.
We welcome a more open relation with Russia.