Climate Change, acceptance


log in

Advanced search

Message boards : Politics : Climate Change, acceptance

1 · 2 · 3 · 4 . . . 7 · Next
Author Message
WinterKnight
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 8707
Credit: 25,218,248
RAC: 29,686
United Kingdom
Message 1496277 - Posted: 27 Mar 2014, 21:01:36 UTC

Looking at the two Climate Change titles set up by ML1, you can deny it's happening, or provide a solution to the problem. So where do you post when it you accept it is very probable that man is the cause but the item you wish to bring to the attention of the Setizens is not a solution.

Well here it is and the this first link astounds me. It is within my lifetime that we have got used to this continental occupation happening in the south of England. Well now they are trying to do it north of Edinburgh, some sure strange is happening.

Pin-och noir or Sco-Vignon blanc?

Profile CLYDEProject donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 Aug 99
Posts: 2424
Credit: 24,321,000
RAC: 32,698
United States
Message 1496392 - Posted: 28 Mar 2014, 0:28:32 UTC - in response to Message 1496277.

Looking at the two Climate Change titles set up by ML1, you can deny it's happening, or provide a solution to the problem. So where do you post when it you accept it is very probable that man is the cause but the item you wish to bring to the attention of the Setizens is not a solution.

Well here it is and the this first link astounds me. It is within my lifetime that we have got used to this continental occupation happening in the south of England. Well now they are trying to do it north of Edinburgh, some sure strange is happening.

Pin-och noir or Sco-Vignon blanc?

They were growing abundant grapes for wine in Britain, during the years of 950 to 1250 AD. The Medieval Warm Period.

And?
____________

Profile Intelligent Design
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 12
Posts: 3626
Credit: 37,520
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1496394 - Posted: 28 Mar 2014, 0:31:51 UTC

Hummmmmm? LOL!
____________
Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...

anniet
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 2 Feb 14
Posts: 4452
Credit: 207,699
RAC: 716
United Kingdom
Message 1496395 - Posted: 28 Mar 2014, 0:33:56 UTC - in response to Message 1496392.
Last modified: 28 Mar 2014, 0:34:28 UTC

Looking at the two Climate Change titles set up by ML1, you can deny it's happening, or provide a solution to the problem. So where do you post when it you accept it is very probable that man is the cause but the item you wish to bring to the attention of the Setizens is not a solution.

Well here it is and the this first link astounds me. It is within my lifetime that we have got used to this continental occupation happening in the south of England. Well now they are trying to do it north of Edinburgh, some sure strange is happening.

Pin-och noir or Sco-Vignon blanc?

They were growing abundant grapes for wine in Britain, during the years of 950 to 1250 AD. The Medieval Warm Period.

And?


... if it all goes pear-shaped at least we in Britain can get rat-arsed on local wine instead of imported stuff? (assuming Scotland doesn't become independent of course - which is a different thread of course :))

Profile CLYDEProject donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 Aug 99
Posts: 2424
Credit: 24,321,000
RAC: 32,698
United States
Message 1496396 - Posted: 28 Mar 2014, 0:38:11 UTC - in response to Message 1496395.
Last modified: 28 Mar 2014, 0:38:39 UTC

... if it all goes pear-shaped at least we in Britain can get rat-arsed on local wine instead of imported stuff? (assuming Scotland doesn't become independent of course - which is a different thread of course :))

Well, if we are ALL going down the road to hell. Let's ALL get rat-arsed. :))
____________

anniet
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 2 Feb 14
Posts: 4452
Credit: 207,699
RAC: 716
United Kingdom
Message 1496404 - Posted: 28 Mar 2014, 1:00:16 UTC - in response to Message 1496277.

Looking at the two Climate Change titles set up by ML1, you can deny it's happening, or provide a solution to the problem. So where do you post when it you accept it is very probable that man is the cause but the item you wish to bring to the attention of the Setizens is not a solution.

Well here it is and the this first link astounds me. It is within my lifetime that we have got used to this continental occupation happening in the south of England. Well now they are trying to do it north of Edinburgh, some sure strange is happening.

Pin-och noir or Sco-Vignon blanc?


It's an excellent thread Winterknight thank you! :) And may I apologise for my earlier slovenly use of the Queen's english. It won't happen again here I promise :)

Profile betregerProject donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 29 Jun 99
Posts: 2519
Credit: 5,277,357
RAC: 7,178
United States
Message 1496421 - Posted: 28 Mar 2014, 2:11:52 UTC

Scotish wine I never though of it but whiskey yes I have.
____________

Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 1638
Credit: 576,666
RAC: 275
United States
Message 1496436 - Posted: 28 Mar 2014, 3:38:04 UTC

This is what I have been supporting for a long time. No matter what the cause of climate change, it is happening and probably can't be reversed short of cutting the human population in half. So instead of moaning and wailing about it, use it to our advantage. Some places that we populate now may become flooded but other places will become fertile and livable. Some places we live in now we would be better off moving away from anyway.. Some species, like the polar bear, may fade and become extinct but others will take advantage of the new climate. These changes aren't going to happen over night and we can adapt as we always have. Maybe a slightly warmer climate is better than another ice age. Over the long run the earth is not going to stay as it is now no matter what we do or don't do. It's how we deal with and adapt to the inevitable changes that matters.
____________
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Profile James Sotherden
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 16 May 99
Posts: 8951
Credit: 36,271,813
RAC: 45,032
United States
Message 1496476 - Posted: 28 Mar 2014, 7:02:19 UTC

I will say climate change is going on. As to what is causeing it is not for this thread. But we should be better stewards of our planet.
____________

Old James

anniet
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 2 Feb 14
Posts: 4452
Credit: 207,699
RAC: 716
United Kingdom
Message 1496545 - Posted: 28 Mar 2014, 10:36:41 UTC - in response to Message 1496476.
Last modified: 28 Mar 2014, 10:38:34 UTC

I will say climate change is going on. As to what is causeing it is not for this thread. But we should be better stewards of our planet.


+1!
We should :)

The big picture of climate change, whether someone believes it is happening or not, is heavily reliant on averaging data worldwide. What's good about this thread is that it gives us an opportunity to look at the component parts which make up the big picture... like Winterknight's grape post (and also means I'm likely to stay on topic as opposed to other threads where I meander off it sort of a lot :)).

Increasingly warm weather, earlier springs and milder winters are occurring in many places now and are the perfect conditions for mosquitoes... And the girlies of this species pack more than one punch! Conservative estimates put malaria deaths at about one million annually, many under the age of two years of age, with nearly half the world's population now at risk from it. But that's just madam Anopheles who feeds mainly at night. Not all mosquitoes do.

Mosquitoes love fresh water, and absolutely adore still waters (and those don't have to run deep... even water in the inside of abandoned tyres is a playground to these ladies!). Drier weather and droughts you'd think would be a deterrent. Instead, by causing streams to stop flowing, mosquitoes are finding the perfect breeding spot in the standing water. Mosquitoes also mature and breed faster in the heat and it's those factors combined which have resulted in a huge increase in cases of West Nile Virus (WNV). Warm weather also decreases the virus’ incubation period, allowing the virus to spread rapidly and earlier springs and milder winters lengthens the breeding season of the mosquito – so compounding the problem.

WNV was first identified in Uganda in 1937 and was considered a minor risk to humans. In 1994 an outbreak in Algeria caused WNV-encephalitis (swelling of the brain) in many who were infected. The first outbreak outside Africa occurred in Romania in 1996 and presented a high number of cases of neuroinvasive disease. WNV is now global – and also causes WNV-meningitis (inflammation of the meninges surrounding the brain); WNV-meningoencephalitis (inflammation of both the brain and the meninges); WNV-poliomyelitis (spinal cord inflammation resulting in flaccid paralysis); and a new strain of the virus was found in Italy in 2012.

Not everyone infected with the disease gets as severely ill – but recovery – even for those who don't suffer the afore-mentioned problems can take well over a year. The first case occurred in New York in 1999 and WNV killed 286 people in the United States in 2012. The elderly, men over 50, the young and those with immunity disorders or high blood pressure are most susceptible. There is no vaccine.

:(

So now I've spread some sunshine around :) I do hope everyone has a lovely weekend!

Profile William Rothamel
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 25 Oct 06
Posts: 2602
Credit: 1,180,227
RAC: 23
United States
Message 1496619 - Posted: 28 Mar 2014, 13:55:13 UTC - in response to Message 1496545.

Malaria was virtually wiped out in the more civilized, Western world by a conscious effort and program to spray with DDT. DDT is now banned; so now what do we do--we send mosquito nets to Africa to surround where people sleep. Sort of like treating the symptoms rather than the root cause. It's a fool's errand. So I say choose your poison and thereby choose your outcome.

Profile CLYDEProject donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 Aug 99
Posts: 2424
Credit: 24,321,000
RAC: 32,698
United States
Message 1496623 - Posted: 28 Mar 2014, 14:02:46 UTC - in response to Message 1496436.

This is what I have been supporting for a long time. No matter what the cause of climate change, it is happening and probably can't be reversed short of cutting the human population in half. So instead of moaning and wailing about it, use it to our advantage. Some places that we populate now may become flooded but other places will become fertile and livable. Some places we live in now we would be better off moving away from anyway.. Some species, like the polar bear, may fade and become extinct but others will take advantage of the new climate. These changes aren't going to happen over night and we can adapt as we always have. Maybe a slightly warmer climate is better than another ice age. Over the long run the earth is not going to stay as it is now no matter what we do or don't do. It's how we deal with and adapt to the inevitable changes that matters.

100% agree.

In the Historical Past: Civilization's, and Populations rise during Their Local Warming Period. And Collapse when this ends. See Late Roman Empire (West), Mayan, Chin Dynasty, etc. This is normal and will continue.

Why people say the last 100 - 200 - 300 years IS Normal Climate, has always escaped me.
____________

Profile CLYDEProject donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 Aug 99
Posts: 2424
Credit: 24,321,000
RAC: 32,698
United States
Message 1496625 - Posted: 28 Mar 2014, 14:05:17 UTC - in response to Message 1496619.

Malaria was virtually wiped out in the more civilized, Western world by a conscious effort and program to spray with DDT. DDT is now banned; so now what do we do--we send mosquito nets to Africa to surround where people sleep. Sort of like treating the symptoms rather than the root cause. It's a fool's errand. So I say choose your poison and thereby choose your outcome.

Living in South Florida: Almost never get bitten by Mosquitos.

The reason: As my Father always said, "Mosquitos don't like Scotch"
____________

Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 1638
Credit: 576,666
RAC: 275
United States
Message 1496647 - Posted: 28 Mar 2014, 15:09:09 UTC

The spread of WNV is not due to global warming. It is due to the highly increased mobility of man. The mosquitos hitch a ride on our transportation network and/or carriers of the disease move from the places where it started to the rest of the world.
____________
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Profile ML1
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 8518
Credit: 4,203,710
RAC: 1,602
United Kingdom
Message 1496696 - Posted: 28 Mar 2014, 17:02:55 UTC - in response to Message 1496619.
Last modified: 28 Mar 2014, 17:05:05 UTC

Malaria was virtually wiped out in the more civilized, Western world by a conscious effort and program to spray with DDT. DDT is now banned; so now what do we do--we send mosquito nets to Africa to surround where people sleep. Sort of like treating the symptoms rather than the root cause. It's a fool's errand. So I say choose your poison and thereby choose your outcome.

And... Despite what the DDT manufacturers claimed for boosting their profits, DDT turned out to be very long lasting badly harmful to an awful lot more in the environment than just the one little sucker...

Indeed, that scenario is rather reminiscent of the present day growing debacle of the flagrantly widespread overuse of neonicotinoids 'pesticides' that look to be giving an awful lot more than just supposed 'pests' a bad time... There are better ways to farm other than by big funded agribusiness-chemicals promoted monocultures...

Indeed, choose your poison. Or, there are far better and more intelligent and more beneficial ways...


All on our only one planet,
Martin
____________
See new freedom: Mageia4
Linux Voice See & try out your OS Freedom!
The Future is what We make IT (GPLv3)

Profile Intelligent Design
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 12
Posts: 3626
Credit: 37,520
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1496719 - Posted: 28 Mar 2014, 17:41:33 UTC

Id rather eat. There seems to be a market for eating. Reckon you can try to stop that market. Luck with that...
____________
Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...

anniet
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 2 Feb 14
Posts: 4452
Credit: 207,699
RAC: 716
United Kingdom
Message 1497003 - Posted: 29 Mar 2014, 6:07:33 UTC
Last modified: 29 Mar 2014, 6:15:13 UTC

The spread of WNV is not due to global warming. It is due to the highly increased mobility of man. The mosquitos hitch a ride on our transportation network and/or carriers of the disease move from the places where it started to the rest of the world.


Hi Bob! :)
You're absolutely correct with regards the spread of WNV, and many other diseases too for that matter, and other non native insects. (We had a black widow spider from southern Africa arrive in the Uk in bunches of grapes). I think where the concern lies is that these imported species are thriving in their new homes and where drought and warmer temperatures are affecting the flow of water in rivers and streams... are multiplying at an alarming rate. Also WNV is not just carried by one species of mosquito, but can infect them all. Birds (some species die within days, others become carriers) and humans were the first to be infected, followed by alligators, crocodiles, amphibians, and horses, and in 2007, an autopsy on a dead killer whale revealed that it had died from WNV.

The Asian tiger mosquito is now widespread in the US, and in Florida has been found in all 67 of it's counties (so keep drinking that Scotch Clyde :)) They prefer stagnant water lying in man made containers (such as tyres, cans etc) for breeding and and are an agressive daytime blood feeder.


Malaria was virtually wiped out in the more civilized, Western world by a conscious effort and program to spray with DDT. DDT is now banned; so now what do we do--we send mosquito nets to Africa to surround where people sleep. Sort of like treating the symptoms rather than the root cause. It's a fool's errand. So I say choose your poison and thereby choose your outcome.


Hi William :)
You're right. And there has recently been some rather disturbing calls for DDT to be unbanned. The ends will probably not justify the means and I doubt whether any right-minded body would do so. One of the unforeseen consequences of DDT was the effect it had on egg-laying species that either buried their eggs or incubated their young. Egg shells simply stopped being strong enough to support the weight of the parent bird or covering soil and were crushed. The domino effect within the food chain for birds of prey, and snakes proved calamitous, not just on their population, but on crop yield... as mice, locusts and rats dramatically increased in numbers with the rapid decimation of their natural predators.

So... more people not contracting malaria... :) but with less food to feed themselves on. :(

Hi ML1 :)
You mentioned neocotinoids (neuro-acting pesticide similar to nicotine). I watched the horrific and lingering death of a snail that had the misfortune to get a dose of that poison :( but I know many out there only see them as pests so I won't elaborate on that point.

Yet neonicotinoids are potentially as bad if not worse than DDT in their effects with regards future food production. They have been linked to suppressing the natural immunity of bees to virusses - and causing a collapse of bee numbers where they have been used. One third of every bite we eat is dependant on pollination by bees. They are the experts in this field. Their body shape, their hairiness, their movements whilst exploring each flower and sipping its nectar are evolutionary perfection in motion. Studies have been done into whether hand pollination by humans could replace bees. Crop yield crashed to almost non-existant in every instant. Okay we may get better at that - but I suspect that if/when neocotinoids are banned, we're just going to create another poison. After all, the chemical company that produces it will rush out for it's patent and then make a lot of money from it - and it'll be cheaper than training, then paying hundreds of thousands of human "bees" to do a job that nature did for us for free :(

We have not exterminated a single insect species we've had in our gunsights with any of our poisons. Instead we are rapidly becoming experts in causing collateral damage to the ones we most need, whilst providing our targets with the opportunity to develop immunity against our planets deadliest inhabitant - ourselves.


Id rather eat. There seems to be a market for eating. Reckon you can try to stop that market. Luck with that...


Hi ID :)
How you doing?
We'd all rather eat... :) but food prices are rising. :( One disturbing little statistic I came across is that 1 farmer is committing suicide every 12 hours in India - each after watching their crops fail and/or their animals starve to death :(

A lot of aggressively marketed "faith" has been put in GM crops to "feed the poor". What it has done without a doubt is feed the greed of Monsanto (one of the most unethical corporations that have ever graced this planet) and it's shareholders.

In a post I made in another thread about deforestation, you mentioned corn ID. I have yet to reply to that, but will, I promise :) In the meantime, this is what GM corn does when it's fed to lab rats...



70% of females, and fifty% of males die prematurely, most from cancer. Is this how we see our poor?

Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 1638
Credit: 576,666
RAC: 275
United States
Message 1497009 - Posted: 29 Mar 2014, 6:17:15 UTC

My position about accepting and dealing with global warming does not include a belief that we should continue as before regarding the health of our planet. We should continue to make every effort to curb our impact on nature and be good stewards of our planet's environment. But if we are to continue to feed, house and clothe the ever increasing human population of the planet the overall impact of mankind will continue to increase. The way I see it the planet can only support so much biomass and as humanity grows something else has to go.
____________
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

anniet
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 2 Feb 14
Posts: 4452
Credit: 207,699
RAC: 716
United Kingdom
Message 1497015 - Posted: 29 Mar 2014, 6:25:30 UTC - in response to Message 1497009.
Last modified: 29 Mar 2014, 6:30:25 UTC

My position about accepting and dealing with global warming does not include a belief that we should continue as before regarding the health of our planet. We should continue to make every effort to curb our impact on nature and be good stewards of our planet's environment. But if we are to continue to feed, house and clothe the ever increasing human population of the planet the overall impact of mankind will continue to increase. The way I see it the planet can only support so much biomass and as humanity grows something else has to go.


I know you don't think we should be continuing as we have done in the past. :) And you're absolutely right. Increasing longevity, better disease prevention and treatment, increasing birthrates, etc... they're on an upward trend. But getting the balance right is not something we're very good at at all... yet.

Profile James Sotherden
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 16 May 99
Posts: 8951
Credit: 36,271,813
RAC: 45,032
United States
Message 1497049 - Posted: 29 Mar 2014, 7:52:27 UTC - in response to Message 1496545.

I will say climate change is going on. As to what is causeing it is not for this thread. But we should be better stewards of our planet.


+1!
We should :)

The big picture of climate change, whether someone believes it is happening or not, is heavily reliant on averaging data worldwide. What's good about this thread is that it gives us an opportunity to look at the component parts which make up the big picture... like Winterknight's grape post (and also means I'm likely to stay on topic as opposed to other threads where I meander off it sort of a lot :)).

Increasingly warm weather, earlier springs and milder winters are occurring in many places now and are the perfect conditions for mosquitoes... And the girlies of this species pack more than one punch! Conservative estimates put malaria deaths at about one million annually, many under the age of two years of age, with nearly half the world's population now at risk from it. But that's just madam Anopheles who feeds mainly at night. Not all mosquitoes do.

Mosquitoes love fresh water, and absolutely adore still waters (and those don't have to run deep... even water in the inside of abandoned tyres is a playground to these ladies!). Drier weather and droughts you'd think would be a deterrent. Instead, by causing streams to stop flowing, mosquitoes are finding the perfect breeding spot in the standing water. Mosquitoes also mature and breed faster in the heat and it's those factors combined which have resulted in a huge increase in cases of West Nile Virus (WNV). Warm weather also decreases the virus’ incubation period, allowing the virus to spread rapidly and earlier springs and milder winters lengthens the breeding season of the mosquito – so compounding the problem.

WNV was first identified in Uganda in 1937 and was considered a minor risk to humans. In 1994 an outbreak in Algeria caused WNV-encephalitis (swelling of the brain) in many who were infected. The first outbreak outside Africa occurred in Romania in 1996 and presented a high number of cases of neuroinvasive disease. WNV is now global – and also causes WNV-meningitis (inflammation of the meninges surrounding the brain); WNV-meningoencephalitis (inflammation of both the brain and the meninges); WNV-poliomyelitis (spinal cord inflammation resulting in flaccid paralysis); and a new strain of the virus was found in Italy in 2012.

Not everyone infected with the disease gets as severely ill – but recovery – even for those who don't suffer the afore-mentioned problems can take well over a year. The first case occurred in New York in 1999 and WNV killed 286 people in the United States in 2012. The elderly, men over 50, the young and those with immunity disorders or high blood pressure are most susceptible. There is no vaccine.

:(

So now I've spread some sunshine around :) I do hope everyone has a lovely weekend!

As I live in New York state the county I live in has had cases of West Nile Virus. And yes some people have died. But we also have another mosiquitoe borne diasease that can kill. Eastern Equine Encephalitus (sp) And thats native to the US.
I dont know if WNV is invasive or due to global warming. Its here and it wont go away.

But when the mosquitoes come out we go in.
____________

Old James

1 · 2 · 3 · 4 . . . 7 · Next

Message boards : Politics : Climate Change, acceptance

Copyright © 2014 University of California