I've decided it is time to teach my oldest son to drive. He has anger issues due to his PTSD so I have made it clear that at the first sign of a freak out and the lessons are over and he'll have to pay someone to teach him.

My car is a standard, so he is going to have to learn on that unlike all his buddies who get it easy learning on an automatic. On the plus side, I have reassured him that if he can drive my old standard with the temperamental gear box then he will be able to drive anything.

Yesterday we went to the local park hoping the car park would be empty. It was not and some people had decided to park there to eat their lunch which is their right to do. This made the whole thing a little more tense than usual as we crawled around the car park with him panicking occasionally and then stalling the car. I was very tense by the end of it, but no one died. I think he stalled my poor car about 20 times which he rounded down to "only about 3 times" when he was discussing it afterwards. We had to stop when he started to get agitated about the other users of the car park and take it personally that they wanted to use the car park when he was there. This does not bode well for when he has to deal with actual drivers on the road who will attempt to kill you with their stupidity.

Today I took him to a quiet road and attempted to get him to try out 2nd gear. This was stressful for everyone all round and we returned to the local park to drive around in circles in first gear for half an hour while he practised not stalling my car when stopping and starting. We even tried reversing a little, this is not as easy as it sounds because of the necessity to double de-clutch when putting my car into reverse gear. I am not looking forward to when we try to move into using 3rd gear as sometimes I have trouble finding it on that car. We left the car park when he started to get agitated about a young boy on a bicycle who was curious as to why we were driving slowly around and around and around the car park. No one died and I think he has mastered 1st gear.

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Reality Internet Personality

Es,I think your going about it the right way by going to parking lots. I taught two people how to drive standard that way. And your right.Teach him to drive standard and he will never have a problem driving anything else. I have a son in law who to this day cant drive one. And hes 40.

What I did for the guy when I was in the Air Force and my second wife was to take them to a parking lot when few cars were there and they would go from the line that separated one isle from the next. Which was about 25 or so feet. I would have them stop then start again. Yes they stalled the car a lot. I did the same when my dad taught me how to drive standard. I never got mad and actually had to laugh beacuse, Even I coulnt stall a car that fast anymore. It wont take long to learn how to work the clutch and gas. And its even better that you have mystery gears. Every car has its own idiosyncrosys.
I like standards better that automatics. But having bad knees stop and go traffic kills me.

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Old James

I can't drive stick's... I burn out clutches in 10K Miles... It's getting into first and reverse that kills me, every time. Somehow, I'm not getting the right action on the clutch in those instances; and, I just burn the damn thing out.

It's strictly automatics for me. :-)

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TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos

I can't drive stick's... I burn out clutches in 10K Miles... It's getting into first and reverse that kills me, every time. Somehow, I'm not getting the right action on the clutch in those instances; and, I just burn the damn thing out.

It's strictly automatics for me. :-)

You cant ride a clutch either. You either use or you dont. Even if you think you are not depressing it, You are.

Edit My last standard was a 1995 Saturn. I had 112.000 miles on when I got rid of it. I never had a clutch problem.

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Old James

If you try hard and practise, you find that
you can get along with out a clutch except
for getting started, stopping, and reverse......
I drove a gravel truck in my miss-spent
youth. The rigs I drove had two straight
cut transmissions and up to eighteen gears.
One learned how to shift smooth, or one
found other employment.

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I can't drive stick's... I burn out clutches in 10K Miles... It's getting into first and reverse that kills me, every time. Somehow, I'm not getting the right action on the clutch in those instances; and, I just burn the damn thing out.

It's strictly automatics for me. :-)

You cant ride a clutch either. You either use or you dont. Even if you think you are not depressing it, You are.

Edit My last standard was a 1995 Saturn. I had 112.000 miles on when I got rid of it. I never had a clutch problem.

Well I'm hoping I'll still have a clutch after all this. I got the car off Craigslist for $2K a couple of years ago and its actually turned out to be a very good car. I've only had to do basic maintenance on it. Its a 2001 Ford Focus. He is being very careful so far and hasn't ground the gears at all yet.

Being an old car you do have to be gentle with the gears and ease into them with great tenderness. :D I hate letting Mr 99 drive it, because he is not used to driving a standard and tries to race up through the gears. He also uses them to slow the car, which I think was how people were taught to drive back in the 60s because it is not a good idea to always do that.

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Reality Internet Personality

Once, when I was getting my car fixed, my friend lent me his, with a stick. He gave me a brief lesson, but I never got the hang of it. Could be that the car was just too damn small for me to position my left leg properly. I was, at the time, in the habit of using my left foot on the brake, so it's not that the leg was too lazy to move from its resting place, but it certainly wan't used to pushing that hard or releasing that gently. I think if I got some practice in a car the right size for me, I'd be okay.

Fortunately and thankfully, however, someone invented the automatic so I don't have to mess with a clutch.

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

learning as a teen on a standard, I never ever used my left foot on the the brake. I still dont to this day.

Es, When I went to tractor trailer school, They taught us how to down shift to slow down. Now thats not to say you can go from 10/th gear down to 1/st But as you slow down you can go to the next lowest gear to help you slow down. I always listend to the engine. You dont want to lug and engine either.

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Old James

He also uses them to slow the car, which I think was how people were taught to drive back in the 60s because it is not a good idea to always do that.

You are partly correct Es. I passed my test first time in 1963, and we were taught to drive by the MSBG method, Mirror, Signal, Brakes, Gears. If were going to turn left up ahead, firstly you looked in the mirror so you knew where other road users were, next you signalled your intentions. Then whilst braking gently, you dropped down the gears from 4th to 3rd, to 2nd. Then with both hands on the wheel you negotiated the corner, (feeding through not crossing hands!), then accelerated gently away back up through the gears to the cruising speed appropriate to the road conditions and the speed limit in force.

Why were we taught that way? Because UK cars in the 50/60's mostly had drum brakes all round, twin leading shoe on the front and leading and trailing shoe on the rear. Not exactly the most efficient system on the planet and there were the odd brake failures. So you used the compression of the engine to assist the brakes to slow the car down. If there was a brake failure you also had a chance to stop safely using the handbrake with the gears.

The MSBG system also ensured that you and others knew where each other were on the road, and were intending to do, plus being in the right place at the right time, in the right gear, and the right speed for the intended manoeuvre, and being fully in control of the vehicle at all times. Those principles still hold today. However, with modern cars and power assisted all round disc brakes, things are slightly different a nd it is now acceptable to drive up to a cross roads or tee junction in third gear, brake, drop the clutch, and handbrake on, then into neutral. We would have failed the test had we done that!

Automatics are the lazy mans way to drive, but of course they are a boon for disabled and partially disabled people. Having said that modern automatics have economy and sports modes, depending upon your driving wishes. It doesn't take a rocket scientist brain to drive a four on the floor without crunching the gears or burning out the clutch!

Ford Focuses are good solid little cars with modern synchromesh gearboxes that shouldn't need double de-clutching for a smooth gear change, unlike the 50's cars where synchro was guaranteed to go on 2nd gear. But well Mr.99 is Canadian, so enough said I suppose!! Simple answer is "My car - I drive, naff off!"

I was taught to only use the gears to slow down when you needed more control of the car, i.e. on steep hills. You are right about it being about the old brake system. I know this because we had a heated argument about it and he wouldn't listen to me until I showed him the arguments for and against always using the gears to slow you down. One of the problems with doing that is that people behind you don't realise you are slowing down as no brake lights go on. This can be dangerous. Plus, my dad always told me that its cheaper to replace the brakes than the gear box, so don't put too much wear and tear on it. My driving instructor taught us to slow with the brakes and then change to the correct gear and only use the the gear box to control speed on sharp turns of steep hills. I will be teaching my son the 'proper' way to drive and if people don't like it they can shut up! lol!

You are correct, in my car you drive it how I tell you. Considering that Mr. 99 drives an automatic and is on his second transmission in 4 years I think it is clear who is the better driver ;)

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Reality Internet Personality

Plus, my dad always told me that its cheaper to replace the brakes than the gear box, so don't put too much wear and tear on it.

That was good advice and quite true many years ago, not so sure nowadays with the complex braking systems that we have.

Unless British brakes are a LOT more complex than American ones, I'd have to stick with the original adage. Even if you wear your pads down to nothing and have to replace the rotors, the bill is still only in the hundreds, whereas almost anything to do with a tranny is in the thousands.

Unapologetically automatic-using,

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

Plus, my dad always told me that its cheaper to replace the brakes than the gear box, so don't put too much wear and tear on it.

That was good advice and quite true many years ago, not so sure nowadays with the complex braking systems that we have.

Unless British brakes are a LOT more complex than American ones, I'd have to stick with the original adage. Even if you wear your pads down to nothing and have to replace the rotors, the bill is still only in the hundreds, whereas almost anything to do with a tranny is in the thousands.

Unapologetically automatic-using,

Regular services should be able to keep a check on your brake pads before things get to that point.

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Reality Internet Personality

Lets take a 2008 Ford Mondeo as a typical British secondhand medium car. Typical prices are

Disc brake pad set, front or back £40 each (DIY job)
New discs front £50 each, rear £40 each (fitting would be a garage or tame mechanic job)
Exchange manual gearbox £670 including fitting.

You may actually be right about the financial advantage of brake prices as against transmission parts, on ordinary cars. But some upmarket ones have 4 cylinders per caliper, replacing the whole side is getting into expensive territory. And again automatic gearboxes are quite expensive as against manual ones. If you wanna drive American auto gas guzzlers you pay the price :-)

Car repairs are much cheaper here I've noticed. Getting my car a full service costs about $70 whereas in the UK it used to cost me over £100.

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Reality Internet Personality

That sounds good value to me Es. Is that a main garage or a tame mechanic?

Just the local Fountain Tire.

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Reality Internet Personality

less expensive, not cheaper .......

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Yes.

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A must read. World’s funniest letter home from camp

A must read. World’s funniest letter home from camp

I'd have been more worried AFTER getting the letter :)))))))))))))

Yet another useful tip for parents. Always read the washing instructions...

I wonder if anyone forgot to do that:)

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[/quote]

Old James

Yet another useful tip for parents. Always read the washing instructions...

Annie,

That is tooooo funny.

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Dave