Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: DENIAL (#2)

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Profile KWSN - MajorKong
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Message 1495803 - Posted: 26 Mar 2014, 22:48:49 UTC - in response to Message 1495775.  
Last modified: 26 Mar 2014, 22:53:56 UTC

At the level of 1% concentration of CO2 (10000 ppm) some people will begin to feel some effects.

At a level above 5% concentration of CO2 (50000 ppm) it is directly toxic and will kill you rather quickly.

EDIT: I see Rob Smith beat me to some of this information. Takes me a while to make posts sometimes. I keep getting interrupted by other, more important things.

Currently, we are at about 400 ppm (0.04%).

How much is too much? THAT is what the debate here is about.



Fair point Kong, and taken to heart. But never the less it was you who said---life went on.


Yes, life went on. But there is no guarantee that humanity will.

Yes, life will go on, *unless* we trigger a 'nightmare' scenario of a runaway greenhouse effect similar to what happened to Venus where the surface temperature is hot enough to melt lead. This, however, is extremely unlikely. Venus' atmosphere is MUCH denser than ours, and it is over 95% CO2.

How much is too much? There are those that say *any* human influence on the climate is bad. Well, that ship sailed thousands of years ago (somewhere between 15000BCE and 5000BCE or thereabouts) during the Agricultural Revolution. Human activity changes the climate.

How much is too much? There are others that say that we should try to restrict the climate from changing more than 2 Degrees C warmer. Well, that ship has likely already sailed as well. If we totally stopped *all* human activity that even potentially produces climate change TODAY, the climate would likely take several thousand years to fully 'recover'.

How much is too much? I have no clue.
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Message 1495809 - Posted: 26 Mar 2014, 23:02:39 UTC - in response to Message 1495795.  

You are talking rubbish - the facts do not align with your ill formed theory. The change in atmospheric carbon has JUMPED in the last couple of hundred years, far faster than at other comparable period of time. In that time man has burnt millions of tons of fossil fuels (coal, gas, oil). That combustion has released into the atmosphere about three times that mass of carbon dioxide. Some of that has been absorbed by the oceans, some by plants, but the vast majority is still in the atmosphere.

For you information the LD50 of carbon dioxide is 4% (that is the carbon dioxide concentration that will 50% of a population in 1 hour) While that is the one hour dose to kill reduced function can kick in at 1% of that level.

But that is not the problem... Atmospheric carbon dioxide acts in the same way as glass does in a greenhouse, trapping heat, and not letting it re-radiate. If we take a baseline of 300ppm (which we last saw on earth somewhere around 1700), and double it (more or less what we have today) there would be an increase in temperature, averaged over the whole earth of a couple of degrees Kelvin, and this temperature increase per 300ppm is fairly linear at low concentrations, increase from 600ppm to 900 and the temperature rise is another couple of degrees, but push up to something like 5000ppm and there is a change in behaviour - instead of a couple of degrees per 300ppm the increase doubles per 300ppm, so if 5000ppm to 5300ppm give two degrees 5300 to 5600 give 4 degrees and so on. But all this assumes we were at a steady state to begin with (constant carbon dioxide level for say a hundred years to let the temperature stabilise) but we aren't, and this results in a increase in the impact on temperature by about 0.1K per additional 300ppm per one hundred years.


Current CO2 concentrations are hardly double the pre-industrial 300ppm.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/weekly.html

We are only right at about 400ppm now.. In fact, the March 25 daily average (yesterday) WAS 400.00ppm.
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Message 1495810 - Posted: 26 Mar 2014, 23:02:59 UTC - in response to Message 1495803.  

I have no clue--you said.

Honest answer, thank you for that anyhow...
Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...
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Message 1495811 - Posted: 26 Mar 2014, 23:04:52 UTC - in response to Message 1495809.  

Ya, changers do tend to misrepersent the facts... LMAO!
Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...
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Message 1495816 - Posted: 26 Mar 2014, 23:32:44 UTC - in response to Message 1495810.  

I have no clue--you said.

Honest answer, thank you for that anyhow...

More cherry picking.
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Message 1495822 - Posted: 26 Mar 2014, 23:48:14 UTC - in response to Message 1495726.  

But my dear, Co2 is not trash. You exhale it. LMBO! It is part of our bodily functions.



Trees need Co2 to exist.


Hi Julie :) Nice to see you (and of course everyone else too!) I sense, like me, that you like trees? :) and they do need C02 to exist - but since my post last night a further 13,227 hectares of forest was destroyed. That's less C02 needed to keep them alive - and of course now they're no longer living, they'll release a lot of their locked up carbon, and more will be generated clearing them from the land they were growing on and so on and so forth. :(
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Message 1495824 - Posted: 26 Mar 2014, 23:54:41 UTC - in response to Message 1495656.  

But my dear, Co2 is not trash. You exhale it. LMBO! It is part of our bodily functions.


Hi ID, sorry for late reply, only just got home :) my exhaled CO2 doesn't come out grey and/or black and jam packed with toxins (as far as I know - how can I get that verified?) although I think I might be coming down with a cold, so there might be some germs in it :) or :/ or :(
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Message 1495832 - Posted: 27 Mar 2014, 0:02:53 UTC
Last modified: 27 Mar 2014, 0:59:11 UTC

the following quote is from NASA

Climate change: How do we know it is caused by humans and really happen ?

The Earth's climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 650,000 years there have been seven cycles of glacial advance and retreat,

with the abrupt end of the last ice age about 7,000 years ago marking the beginning of the modern climate era — and of human civilization.

Most of these climate changes are attributed to very small variations in Earth’s orbit that change the amount of solar energy our planet receives.

The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is very likely human-induced and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented in the past 1,300 years

Earth-orbiting satellites and other technological advances have enabled scientists to see the big picture,

collecting many different types of information about our planet and its climate on a global scale.

Studying these climate data collected over many years reveal the signals of a changing climate
.




This graph, based on the comparison of atmospheric samples

contained in ice cores and more recent direct measurements,

provides evidence that atmospheric CO2 has increased

since the Industrial Revolution.



Certain facts about Earth's climate are not in dispute:

â—¾ The heat-trapping nature of carbon dioxide and other gases was demonstrated

in the mid-19th century.2Their ability to affect the transfer of infrared

energy through the atmosphere is the scientific basis of many instruments flown

by NASA. Increased levels of greenhouse gases must cause the Earth to warm in response.

â—¾ Ice cores drawn from Greenland, Antarctica, and tropical mountain glaciers

show that the Earth’s climate responds to changes in solar output, in the

Earth’s orbit, and in greenhouse gas levels. They also show that in the past,

large changes in climate have happened very quickly, geologically-speaking: in

tens of years, not in millions or even thousands.


3 Scientific Consensus


Ninety-seven percent of climate scientists agree that climate-warming trends

over the past century are very likely due to human activities, and most of the

leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements

endorsing this position.

Click here for a partial list of these public statements and related resources.

The evidence for rapid climate change is compelling:

Good Night ... or morning ... or afternoon to all in our SETI@home community,

where ever you happen ... to be on our only home .....

tiny little planet Earth :)

be kind and gentle to one another ... and ... God Bless, all you all :)

I hope you all had or will have a wonderful Day

Best Wishes
Byron
Vancouver
Canada
:)
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Message 1495834 - Posted: 27 Mar 2014, 0:07:12 UTC - in response to Message 1495824.  

LOL...

Point taken on the trees. But they are not the only ones who take up carbon and let out O.

average 'hectare' of corn removes 22 tons of carbon dioxide from the air.

Trees will sequester atmospheric carbon dioxide at an average of 50 pounds
of carbon dioxide at an an average of 1,000 trees per hectare

When the tree dies it leaves more carbon behind then a corn plant does. This effect evens itself out as we can see...

:-)
Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...
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Message 1495839 - Posted: 27 Mar 2014, 0:18:29 UTC - in response to Message 1495810.  

I have no clue--you said.

Honest answer, thank you for that anyhow...

And neither do you so you advocate letting it ride and find out.
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Message 1495840 - Posted: 27 Mar 2014, 0:41:08 UTC - in response to Message 1495839.  

I advocate doing nothing because there isn't a problem, one that we can fix by even a fraction one way or the other.

We have a zero impact in carbon in the air. The forces of nature are what they are. We cannot change them in any way, shape or form. We cannot Terra Form a planet, we are not that advanced as a race and wont be for many a year...

...just that simple.
Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...
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Message 1495842 - Posted: 27 Mar 2014, 0:52:26 UTC - in response to Message 1495840.  

I advocate doing nothing because there isn't a problem, one that we can fix by even a fraction one way or the other.

We have a zero impact in carbon in the air. The forces of nature are what they are. We cannot change them in any way, shape or form. We cannot Terra Form a planet, we are not that advanced as a race and wont be for many a year...

...just that simple.

How do you know?

Just a simple question.


All on this one planet,
Martin
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Message 1495859 - Posted: 27 Mar 2014, 2:02:24 UTC - in response to Message 1495842.  

LOL, because we are still on this rock. That is why I know we have not advanced enough to make a differance one way or the other.
Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...
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Message 1495864 - Posted: 27 Mar 2014, 2:03:48 UTC - in response to Message 1495842.  

How do you know?

Because he may be clueless.
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Message 1495995 - Posted: 27 Mar 2014, 8:29:25 UTC - in response to Message 1495864.  

How do you know?

Because he may be clueless.


+1
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Message 1496006 - Posted: 27 Mar 2014, 9:00:52 UTC

Current CO2 Level on graph looks like a Redwood amongst Dogwoods.

DENIED

HuWoMan Are LIARS and Prone to BIG MISTAKES. Their Data 'is' BIASED and AGENDATIZED.

Therefore, NO BELIEVE.

Air is Breathable and Water is Crystal Clear.

' '

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1496047 - Posted: 27 Mar 2014, 13:16:24 UTC - in response to Message 1496006.  

Air is Breathable and Water is Crystal Clear.

Says a man who's never been to Izmir, Bangkok or Beijing.
I have, and you don't breathe the air there, you bite off a lump and chew.

Then there's the Great Pacific Garbage Patch, plus similar situations in the Atlantic and other oceans.

There's no denying humans have had a very negative effect on parts of this planet.
Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.
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Message 1496064 - Posted: 27 Mar 2014, 14:47:30 UTC

There's no denying humans have had a very negative effect on parts of this planet.


+1 or the whole planet for that matter.
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Message 1496075 - Posted: 27 Mar 2014, 15:27:23 UTC - in response to Message 1496006.  

Current CO2 Level on graph looks like a Redwood amongst Dogwoods.

DENIED

HuWoMan Are LIARS and Prone to BIG MISTAKES. Their Data 'is' BIASED and AGENDATIZED.

Therefore, NO BELIEVE.

Air is Breathable and Water is Crystal Clear.

' '

You are a damn fine man! +100! LMAO!
Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...
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Message 1496083 - Posted: 27 Mar 2014, 15:49:04 UTC - in response to Message 1496077.  

Air is Breathable and Water is Crystal Clear.


Says a man who's never been to Izmir, Bangkok or Beijing.
I have, and you don't breathe the air there, you bite off a lump and chew.

So how do WE get THEM, and OTHER Emerging Country's, to stop this?

What we do in The West, will have No Meaning to Increases in Atmospheric Pollution of the Entire Planet, if they continue their Hugh Increases. Their Increases are MORE than contemplated Cuts in Western Emissions.

Tell them to Stop? Good Luck!

Tax them? Good Luck!

Set An Example? Good Luck!

To ignore Emerging Country's, and Concentrate on The West is...


I know, sometimes it seems like it's no use. Too many people only have eye for money and their own greed, they don't think of the consequences their actions have or what it does to Mother Earth. And then you indeed have the 'emergency countries' who just don't have the means to do anything, so sad...
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Message boards : Politics : Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: DENIAL (#2)


 
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