Is S.E.T.I. Real or Fake?


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Message 1463918 - Posted: 13 Jan 2014, 13:40:14 UTC

I Am Doing My Life's Work by Crunching. My Life: A Total Waste of Time and Money.

fO shO fO evA

' '
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Message 1463956 - Posted: 13 Jan 2014, 15:57:54 UTC - in response to Message 1463843.
Last modified: 13 Jan 2014, 15:58:32 UTC

A simple question - what form of modulation would an alien us to send its set of prime numbers? There are just so many to choose from. Its far simpler to detect the carrier than decode the message....

I would think something as simple as the system used for Morse code ie. radio pulses. Just interrupting a signal of radio noise at multiple frequencies would do the trick. And I assume that any civilization that can broadcast and receive radio or more advanced signals will understand the significance of a series of pulses that take the form of the prime numbers. X XX XXX XXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX and so on.
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Message 1463971 - Posted: 13 Jan 2014, 16:54:27 UTC - in response to Message 1463918.

I Am Doing My Life's Work by Crunching. My Life: A Total Waste of Time and Money.


Sorry that you feel your life has been wasted...
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Message 1464222 - Posted: 14 Jan 2014, 8:18:52 UTC

A Few Basic Questions...Which no one seems Interested to Answer!
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Message 1464224 - Posted: 14 Jan 2014, 8:21:23 UTC

A FEW GENUINE QUESTIONS...ATLEAST FOR ME.

(1) When we talk about Signals, and we do get a lot of them, which are then filtered and rigid tested and so on n so forth...What exactly are we trying to hear out for in the first place?

(2) Is there a specific alien signal pattern already developed or imagined...and then the signals which we receive are compared to that pattern?

(3) Clearly I am confused...are we trying to listen to an alien sneeze, or trying to tune in on their daily soap operas, can we pick up their farts???

(4) I also observed that emphasis is laid on the signal to be of repetitive pattern n should be continuous n generate from the same area in the sky...so if they are on a light speed starship like Enterprise, the signal wouldn't qualify?

(5) Given the long distances in light years could it be possible that we might intercept a signal from a civilization which is already extinct?

P.S. - somehow I am getting a feeling that I should have never asked these questions and kept my doubts to myself, well too late for repenting!!!

Message 1464241 - Posted: 14 Jan 2014, 9:22:50 UTC

It Creates Part-Time Dough fO sOme PeOple.

So, that part is Real.

' '
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Message 1464258 - Posted: 14 Jan 2014, 10:19:21 UTC - in response to Message 1464241.

I understand your feelings completely, we live in a civilized world which works on the basis of achieving monetary benefits.
It is human nature to cheat and use, and likewise be cheated and used...
Besides, you and I have no rights to question the financial ethics of S.E.T.I. considering we haven't made a single donation.
Overall, I would DARE NOT question the morality of S.E.T.I.
I was permitted to start a thread named "Is S.E.T.I. Fake or Real? and you were allowed to post your personal views on it, this in itself gives away a very crystal clear view as to how pure and righteous the SETI Moderators are...
I do not contest whether SETI is a just cause...I know it is...reason being you and I are here contributing a little of the resources that we have...
All I want to know is, are we on the right path?

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Message 1464260 - Posted: 14 Jan 2014, 10:33:31 UTC


A humble request to all the future posters on this thread...Please do not taint
or even try to tarnish SETI's image.
We are all Setizens, and take pride in what we do!
Lets concentrate on whether we all are on the right track...

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Message 1464262 - Posted: 14 Jan 2014, 10:40:34 UTC

I wouldn't worry to much about what 1 of our resident trolls have to say, but personally I think that ATM we're trying to find the same sort of signals that our planet produces (even if other civilisations use the same means of communications that we do) though I'm no expert on the subject. ;-)

Cheers.

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Message 1464317 - Posted: 14 Jan 2014, 13:14:21 UTC - in response to Message 1464262.

Wonderful, finally someone appears who understands my point...
So if I have a conscience, and a little bit of intellectual presence I would assume that we are trying to listen to a signal which would be somewhat related to the ones that we create on Earth.
So we are not exactly looking out for Alien signals, only expecting human like signals which obviously would be generating from anywhere else except Earth...
Hmn, by the way I have to admit that I am the biggest layman on S.E.T.I. because even after downloading BOINC, setting up Seti@Home, and crunching WUs nearly everyday...I still didn't have a clue as to what I was really doing...
All I understood is that SETI is a good cause, a just cause, and that sooner or later somebody's gotta do it.
It is just recently that I paused for a moment and tried to introspect my actions...

P.S. - Good, Bad, Ugly or a Troll...it just doesn't matter.
Everyone and Anyone who even computes a single WU is a Setizen and deserves respect.

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Message 1464334 - Posted: 14 Jan 2014, 14:11:02 UTC - in response to Message 1463899.

bodhisatva: (I'll try my best from my basic understanding to answer with hope I can get corrected by the pros)

(1) When we talk about Signals, and we do get a lot of them, which are then filtered and rigid tested and so on n so forth...What exactly are we trying to hear out for in the first place?

We got one possible signal that was made public. They call it the "WOW!" Signal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal

They are trying to find patterns in the sounds that will confirm it's not just silence in the entire universe, or a star exploding, but maybe a tv signal, some kind of supercolony that may be trying to figure out if they are alone in the universe too, so SETI started the dialogue.

(2) Is there a specific alien signal pattern already developed or imagined...and then the signals which we receive are compared to that pattern?

Yes. See answer above. Russian radio astronomer Dr Alexander Zaitsev, of the Russian Academy of Science in Moscow, calls this the ‘SETI Paradox’ a kind of vicious circle – no aliens are transmitting, so we don’t hear anything, and we’re not transmitting, so aliens have no idea that we are here and waiting for their call. The way to break this cycle, he says, is for humanity to begin transmitting.

(3) Clearly I am confused...are we trying to listen to an alien sneeze, or trying to tune in on their daily soap operas, can we pick up their farts???

While there may have been as much as 520 million tons per year of dinasaurs gas, for instance, on earth, they didn't fart in intelligent sequences to form a code. Whale songs, might be more indicative of some kind of radar picked up, but these guys are hoping for intelligence similar to ours.

(4) I also observed that emphasis is laid on the signal to be of repetitive pattern n should be continuous n generate from the same area in the sky...so if they are on a light speed starship like Enterprise, the signal wouldn't qualify?
Umm, hypothetically speaking, assuming blackhole allow for something like light speed travel (although I think you mean faster than light superluminous travel) we are supposed to be looking for coded signals. If they are on a starship, I suppose by the time the signal gets here we would probably never communicate with them because they would have moved from the point of origin.


(5) Given the long distances in light years could it be possible that we might intercept a signal from a civilization which is already extinct?

Considering they sent a pictogram in 1974 that will take 25,000 years to get to the destination M13, answer is "yes" it's possible we hear something from a civilation which is already extinct.


P.S. - somehow I am getting a feeling that I should have never asked these questions and kept my doubts to myself, well too late for repenting!!!
I don't think you need to go to confessional for asking questions, even if some think you're trolling (regardless of your age), because someone like you could be the one receiving the signals in another planet and they might need clarification as well :).

My thoughts are whether it has been taken into consideration that while the universe is expanding in a supposed circle, galaxies spreading out in infinite space would probably need to be equal in age to our planet in order to harbor some kind of evolved intelligent life, or at least hope that by the time the signal gets to it's destination there will have been some type of evolution and we're not just beaming to fish in Europa.
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Message 1464338 - Posted: 14 Jan 2014, 14:45:09 UTC - in response to Message 1464224.
Last modified: 14 Jan 2014, 14:53:45 UTC

A FEW GENUINE QUESTIONS...ATLEAST FOR ME.

(1) When we talk about Signals, and we do get a lot of them, which are then filtered and rigid tested and so on n so forth...What exactly are we trying to hear out for in the first place?
yes
Currently we have several billion signals found.

(2) Is there a specific alien signal pattern already developed or imagined...and then the signals which we receive are compared to that pattern?

How it works Though we assume these parameters are what we'd hear if we sent signals into space. We do send signals to our spacecraft and even television. So some alien civilization may be watching or hearing our radio and TV shows.

(3) Clearly I am confused...are we trying to listen to an alien sneeze, or trying to tune in on their daily soap operas, can we pick up their farts???

We are trying to find any instance of repeatable signals from the same place in our galaxy. Signals that are to strong are clearly from earth. to weak and we just won't hear them. This leaves us looking at star systems that are no further than about 100 light years away. Anything further and the signal would just be to weak to reach us.

(4) I also observed that emphasis is laid on the signal to be of repetitive pattern n should be continuous n generate from the same area in the sky...so if they are on a light speed starship like Enterprise, the signal wouldn't qualify?

it would be unlikely that a ship in space would send out signals in our direction or that the signal would be repeated. We are looking for civilizations not starships.

(5) Given the long distances in light years could it be possible that we might intercept a signal from a civilization which is already extinct?
Only if died in the last 100 years or so. We can only "hear" signals from less than 100 light years away.

P.S. - somehow I am getting a feeling that I should have never asked these questions and kept my doubts to myself, well too late for repenting!!!

Why not? You wanted to know and nobody here is realistically going to beat you up about wanting more information on the topic.
Just so you get an idea how weak of a signal we are looking for...
Voyager
The sensitivity of our deep-space tracking antennas located around the world is truly amazing. The antennas must capture Voyager information from a signal so weak that the power striking the antenna is only 10 exponent -16 watts (1 part in 10 quadrillion). A modern-day electronic digital watch operates at a power level 20 billion times greater than this feeble level.

So if we can hear that we can surely hear aliens if they want to be heard
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Message 1464342 - Posted: 14 Jan 2014, 14:55:02 UTC

Everyone and Anyone who even computes a single WU is a Setizen and deserves respect.


Dat Be Funny

By the By, I'm a Fake TrOll. fO Real BrOheim, fO Real.

And, I have Donated CASH/MOOLA/GREENIES/SCRATCH tO Da Cause. See Da Green Star? Oh YeahBa.

Dat was Real DOugh. NOt Fake.

' '
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Message 1464354 - Posted: 14 Jan 2014, 15:57:54 UTC - in response to Message 1464338.
Last modified: 14 Jan 2014, 16:12:14 UTC

to SkilDude...

I really really Appreciate you replying...and obviously you decided to answer in details, again appreciated.
Although after going through your answers i am sure a few more questions are gonna pop up in my brain...but for the moment i would like to take some time out and go through your answers in details.
Again thanks a lot for helping out a fellow setizen, i sincerely appreciate your time n effort.

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Message 1464355 - Posted: 14 Jan 2014, 16:10:22 UTC - in response to Message 1464342.
Last modified: 14 Jan 2014, 16:17:04 UTC

to A Tree is Known by its Fruit aka A. Twit, PhD aka Tea Party Lovin' mO fO*...

Ooops! i made a mistake, missed out on your green star, my bad...i am sorry.
So you have donated and well within your rights to question the financial department as to how your money is spent.
Infact let me take this opportunity and thank you for your CASH/MOOLA/GREENIES/SCRATCH ...although i am not a representative or spokesperson for SETI, but as a fellow comrade n Setizen i would like to thank you for your monetary help...it means a lot to all of us...and i am sure the top most leadership at SETI appreciates it as well.

And yes even a single WU could change the world n humanity for ever n might hold a real positive signal that we all are trying so eagerly to attain, so everyone that contributes is essentially important and deserves respect...

P.S. - (oh! you got around 3,347,672...i go crashing on my knees and humbly bow down my head in front of thee...respect!...peace!)

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Message 1464370 - Posted: 14 Jan 2014, 20:59:34 UTC

Extraterrestrial life is very broad. Totally different bacteries, cells etc we might find one day on exoplanets or other extraterrestrial bodies, can also be classified as 'alien'. I also have a firm belief in extraterretrial intelligent life and it's really worthwile, searching for them imo
I love Seti because it gives me some sort of strength and motivation to look further than our 'narrow' mind these days. You can speak your mind here on the boards about different topics and people will listen to you. Some people can be a real pain in the a** but nothing or no one (except funds maybe) can make this project and what it stands for disappear.

I can't expatiate on the technical side of S.E.T.I but I thought this was important to mention anyway:)
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Message 1464498 - Posted: 15 Jan 2014, 5:37:00 UTC

I'm not sure I understand the question in the title of this thread. I assume it is asking whether the Seti@home project is a fake that is not actually doing the review of the raw data from the Arecibo telescope. I can't see any reason why they would be going through all this trouble to get all of us to run the software if the results are not being further analysed to reveal an intelligent signal when and if it is there. Not having any positive results even after 14 years to me does not mean it is a waste of time. Like I said in another thread, as long as seti@home is up and running and I have a computer with an internet connection I will continue to stay with the project.
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Message 1464505 - Posted: 15 Jan 2014, 6:11:01 UTC - in response to Message 1464334.

to i a n n a...

all I can say in reply to your post is that...you have answered all my questions.
I am completely satisfied with nearly all your answers...infact I am speechless.
I don't have the words to express my gratitude, didn't really think anyone would bother to take the time out and help a new bee...and considering you are a new member yourself, marvelous.
just wonderin where the hell were you all this time, SETI surely needs a lot more people like you...
I WOULD LIKE TO OFFICIALLY STOP, OR GIVE UP, OR CRASH THIS PARTICULAR THREAD.
I HAVE GOT WHAT I WANTED, SO IF THE MODS FEEL LIKE THEY CAN TERMINATE THIS THREAD ANYTIME...OR WHOSOEVER WANTS TO TAKE CONTROL, PLEASE GO AHEAD.

THANKS ALOT ianna...APPRECIATE IT!!!

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Message 1464508 - Posted: 15 Jan 2014, 6:26:43 UTC - in response to Message 1464362.
Last modified: 15 Jan 2014, 6:31:37 UTC

to msattler...

thank you for taking the time out n expressing your views.
I cannot agree more with you on your thoughts about evolution.
by the way, I did have a serious conversation with a person whom I hold great respect for, a simple genius who's name I cannot disclose...
but the conclusion wasn't as I expected...because according to the wise man the universe is approx. 14 days old...nearly so is the milky way...but earth is just 3 days old.
wise man believes any civilization reaching intellectual and technological advancements would be transmitting radio n laser signals since 6 days...
the day earth started listening and could hear nothing simply means that there is no one out there...
(although his theory n calculations were hard to disapprove, but his thoughts sent a cold shiver up through my spine, very depressing conclusion)
but one positive though...old wise man thinks we should stop searching and start creating aliens...time for humanity to transcend towards the divine.
let men be transformed into gods...
P.S. - (no need to transfom or change women, they are already fairies & angels)
again couldn't help but agree...women are pretty fine just the way they are...

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