I believe that if you can break up an empire
with out bloodshed, then have at it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMO70MJIXHU

Oh Flower of Scotland

Come a waa Wee Ya.....

---

I believe that if you can break up an empire
with out bloodshed, then have at it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMO70MJIXHU

Oh Flower of Scotland

Come a waa Wee Ya.....

Celt, Scotland was not part of the Empire nor Wales Northern Ireland or
England.

---

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

STV poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
The survey conducted by Ipsos-MORI put support for Yes on 49% against 51% for No when undecideds are excluded.

Exciting!

Salmon has already won what he wanted in the first place, and what this was really all about anyway. Scotland has been awarded massive new devolution powers for Holyrood, whatever the result will be. If they do get Independence it will be the icing on the cake.

Which will be toxic...

A comment from the link provided says it all really (may not always appear as it's from the referendum live section)...

"I can't see society suddenly becoming much fairer and free from poverty under independence and feel that there will be a period of turmoil as we suddenly discover how difficult it will be to change to the extent claimed by yes campaign.

At present local authorities are facing huge cuts and this will not disappear with independence and I haven't heard yes explaining how they will plug the gaps in this area which affects the most vulnerable in society. Oil is not the panacea for everything. I'm afraid I feel that yes are telling untruths which will disappoint those voting for the first time when the changes promised don't materialise!"

And another...

"A lot is made of the fact that a Yes vote will rid us of Westminster politicians and allow Scots to make decisions for Scotland in Scotland. What do Alex and Nicola do every day at Holyrood? And who pays them to do it? And if we loose our ties to Westminster what makes us think that Scottish politicians have a magic wand that will solve the problems that afflict every developed country in the west? Better the devil you know than jumping out of the frying pan into the fire! As David Cameron said, he'll not be Prime Minister for ever and his Government won't be in power for ever. I can wait."

Mass Rallies mark climax

As I see it this is just a continuation of the Balkanizan of the world. Regardless of the efficiences of a group effort it is what can I get for me and ef the rest. We saw it in the Balkans, Iraq, now Great Britian. The world will be poorer, the rest of Britian will be poorer and the SNP does not care. They view their duty to mankind to be trivial.

---

EDINBURGH -- Voters across Scotland have started casting ballots that will decide the future make-up of the United Kingdom amid polls that show the race between unionists and nationalists is too close to call.

---

I have a question. What happens in a few years and it really turns sour on Scotland leaving the Union. What happens if they want back in?

---

[/quote]

Old James

The latest polls have suggested the result is too close to call.

A Panelbase poll released on Wednesday afternoon, which was not carried out for any media outlet, suggested support for independence was on 48%, with 52% support for Scotland staying in the UK, once undecided voters were excluded.

This was the same figure as polls released on Tuesday evening by Opinium for the Daily Telegraph, another by ICM for the Scotsman and a third by Survation for the Daily Mail.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11045624/Scottish-independence-referendum-poll-the-latest-tracker.html

Heard something on the radio about it this morning...

---

rOZZ
Music
Pictures

Russia's state-controlled television and propaganda is now fixated on Scotland, in part because Britain is one of the foundation stones of Western society. If something goes wrong there, it will provoke foolhardy gloating in Russia.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/donbass-is-not-scotland/507318.html

Not an Onion headline: U.S. sends in the Marines on eve of Scottish referendum
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/09/17/not-an-onion-headline-u-s-sends-in-the-marines-on-eve-of-scottish-referendum/

Scotland intend to be a member of the NATO Alliance. Who knows -- joint U.S.-Scottish exercises may soon become as normal an occurrence as Tartan Eagle.

STV will be producing unrivalled coverage of the historic Scottish independence referendum.
http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/news/292452-how-to-watch-the-scottish-independence-referendum-results-on-stv/?ns_campaign=scotlanddecidespuffs&ns_mchannel=puff&ns_source=homepagehero

Carl Bildt @carlbildt · 6 hours ago
https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/512475238698057728

Scotland can only become a member of NATO if all current members (28 i believe) agree. Spain i feel is unlikely to agree as it'll give the Catalonians ideas.

---

Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

Scotland can only become a member of NATO if all current members (28 i believe) agree. Spain i feel is unlikely to agree as it'll give the Catalonians ideas.

Now I'm confused:) In order to be a member of NATO you must be a non-member
But Scotland (UK) is already a member.
If Think they have to stay in NATO until 2028.

One of the Yes arguments is to get rid of nukes.

A Yes-vote Scotland would be stuck with Trident 'until 2028'
New study finds moving the UK's nuclear weapons from Scotland would be feasible and cheaper than imagined, but take far longer than SNP leaders have promised http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11032878/Yes-vote-Scotland-would-be-stuck-with-Trident-until-2028.html

Now I'm confused:) In order to be a member of NATO you must be a non-member
But Scotland (UK) is already a member.
If Think they have to stay in NATO until 2028.

The UK is a member of NATO, Scotland is a part of the UK.

If Scotland goes independent, they're no longer part of the UK and hence no longer a member of NATO.

Ergo, they would need to apply, but their application will only be accepted if agread by all existing members of NATO, which it probably won't be.

---

Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

Now I'm confused:) In order to be a member of NATO you must be a non-member
But Scotland (UK) is already a member.
If Think they have to stay in NATO until 2028.

The UK is a member of NATO, Scotland is a part of the UK.
If Scotland goes independent, they're no longer part of the UK and hence no longer a member of NATO.
Ergo, they would need to apply, but their application will only be accepted if agread by all existing members of NATO, which it probably won't be.

Not being a NATO member isn't too bad.
Finland, Sweden, Irland are not.

NATO Should Not Be Defending a Nonmember Country
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/09/08/should-nato-be-helping-ukraine-face-russia/nato-should-not-be-defending-a-nonmember-country

The smart answer for Ukraine is "Finlandization" not NATO. Caught between East and West -- and once part of the Russian Empire and war with the U.S.S.R., after World War II -- Finland opted to develop its economy and security by engaging both Western Europe and the Soviet Union. The result was peace and prosperity in one of the great success stories of the 20th century.

I have a question. What happens in a few years and it really turns sour on Scotland leaving the Union. What happens if they want back in?

Well, if Scotland was to become a member of the EU then they would not be
able to rejoin the UK at some later date. For by then Scotland would have
become a State within the EU so would have lost it's status as a country.

To join the UK again, then first Scotland would have to leave the EU first.
If by then the UK is still a member of the EU and has officially become a
State of the EU the EU may not allow Scotland to link back up with the UK.
Unless of course first the UK itself was to also leave, or had already
left the EU by then.

As long as we all stay as individual countries within the EU then anything
is possible. But, as planned by the EU, if all us members become States
within the EU then there would be no benefits to Scotland in joining up
with the Unites States of Britain, well, that's what Britain would have
become.

That's my take on it.....could be wrong though.

---

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

The problem is not the people of a nation but their leaders. They know how to not only play on words but emotions as well. We all know the play on words so let's look at the emotional side...

...each individual looks at the issue from two perspectives, both based on perception.

1: How do I & my local community benefit?
2: Their "perceived" benefit to the country as a whole.

Unfortunately in modern politics, the answer is not what we as individuals perceive but what the politicians "perceive" what they think is best for us.

Regardless of what side wins, nothing changes as they got what they want, power - cue the losers turn 4/5 years later.

Current

Heads or Tails?

Well, if Scotland was to become a member of the EU then they would not be
able to rejoin the UK at some later date. For by then Scotland would have
become a State within the EU so would have lost it's status as a country.

To join the UK again, then first Scotland would have to leave the EU first.
If by then the UK is still a member of the EU and has officially become a
State of the EU the EU may not allow Scotland to link back up with the UK.
Unless of course first the UK itself was to also leave, or had already
left the EU by then.

As long as we all stay as individual countries within the EU then anything
is possible. But, as planned by the EU, if all us members become States
within the EU then there would be no benefits to Scotland in joining up
with the Unites States of Britain, well, that's what Britain would have
become.

That's my take on it.....could be wrong though.

Ehm, no thats not how it works. The EU has zero say on such matters. If Scotland wanted to rejoin with England, its completely up to England to say yes or no, the EU won't be able to intervene. All that needs to be certain is that the region in particular will comply to EU laws and standards, which in the English/Scottish case won't be a problem.

I am still bewildered that Cameron agreed to this. Is he really so out of touch with reality and so arrogant that he didn't see this coming?

I'm out of the country 5 years and the place quite literally falls apart.

---

Reality Internet Personality

I am still bewildered that Cameron agreed to this. Is he really so out of touch with reality and so arrogant that he didn't see this coming?

I'm out of the country 5 years and the place quite literally falls apart.

He isn't the only one!

I am still bewildered that Cameron agreed to this.

Maybe you are. In my view Scotland were always entitled to vote upon their own future. My personal view is that it would be a mistake to go it alone, but they must make that decision for themselves.

I'm out of the country 5 years and the place quite literally falls apart.

It was always going to do start doing that that whether you stayed or went. I would judge you are well out of it. If I could afford to move where you are I could be well tempted :-)

By the way does anyone here have any Scottish connections to declare.

I shall be eligible for a Scottish passport should devolution go ahead and will apply for it.

---

Reality Internet Personality