Seti, you need to give Standard Credit to GPUs

Message boards : Number crunching : Seti, you need to give Standard Credit to GPUs

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MBark

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Message 1462785 - Posted: 10 Jan 2014, 21:46:48 UTC

Seti, if you want crunchers to use their GPUs, then you need to give the Standard Credit for the work. You use both the CPU and the GPU and give next to no Credit.

The Standard Credit on Boinc was and probably still is 1 point for each 864 Billion Flops which is equal to 10 million Flops/sec for one day (86,400 seconds).

Below is all the Credit I got on runs of nearly 5 hours and over 7 hours respectively.

' Run Time ` CPU Time ` Credit
17,380.09 ` 3,193.89 ` 955.45
26,341.53 ` 1,513.66 ` 664.66

Milkyway, on average, beats the above two by 12.6 & 27.5 times as much and Milkyway isn't near as generous on Credit as Collatz and most other Projects that use ATI GPUs.

I like to crunch based on the Scientific Project, but I also like to get at least Standard Credit for my effort. Hopefully, you can make necessary changes in your Credit given. Thanks in advance. Max


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Message 1462811 - Posted: 10 Jan 2014, 23:32:22 UTC - in response to Message 1462785.  

IMO all projects probably grant more credit than S@H as an incentive. If I understand it correctly credit new which is what S@H uses is an attempt to standardize credits across platforms and projects and is still a work in process.
If you want credits Seti is not the place for you, if you want to find Seti forget credit and crunch on.


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bill

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Message 1462812 - Posted: 10 Jan 2014, 23:36:38 UTC - in response to Message 1462785.  

Where do you see that SAH has a problem with not getting
people to use their GPUs to crunch?

Mostly GPU crunchers are complaining of not enough
work to satisfy them.

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Message 1462816 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 0:01:31 UTC
Last modified: 11 Jan 2014, 0:04:12 UTC

My take on it is that the credit system is like a national currency. Some nations' currencies are worth more than others, so you may earn "less" there numerically, but what you earn is worth more so it balances out. This project may pay less credits, but they are similarly "worth" more by requiring more work to earn.


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Grant (SSSF)
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Message 1462820 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 0:19:48 UTC - in response to Message 1462816.  

My take on it is that the credit system is like a national currency. Some nations' currencies are worth more than others, so you may earn "less" there numerically, but what you earn is worth more so it balances out.

Which is why the system is broken.
BOINC credits are meant to be the same for all projects, so everyone gets the same amount of credit for doing the same amount of work (or as close as is possible).
The fact is many projects overpay- way too much.
And Seti underpays, by a ridiculous amount (Credit New is beyond broken). There are probably a few projects out there that actually pay the appropriate amount.
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Message 1462821 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 0:20:45 UTC - in response to Message 1462816.  

My take on it is that the credit system is like a national currency.

Cobblestones are more like the Euro; some nations work harder and get less.

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Message 1462837 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 1:08:30 UTC - in response to Message 1462820.  
Last modified: 11 Jan 2014, 1:24:21 UTC

The fact is many projects overpay- way too much.


Which is why it will stay broken: even if it were standardized across all projects, a new project would come along. How to get volunteers to crunch? Madly overpay, as many do.

Again, to analogize to currency, I don't feel bad about Ecuadorians having far larger bank balances than I do as their Sucre is worth $0.0004. I can only compare my "income" with other Canadians number-for-number, just as I can only compare my credit number-for-number with other SAH participants.

And if I cared about the numbers more than the science, I'd be crunching elsewhere or, more likely, mining BitCoin. :^)
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Message 1462848 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 1:30:51 UTC

I'm looking for aliens.


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Message 1462855 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 1:47:21 UTC

I'm still looking for my RAC flat-line; Fahrenheit or Canadian it's all academic.


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Message 1462856 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 1:51:12 UTC - in response to Message 1462855.  

I'm still looking for my RAC flat-line; Fahrenheit or Canadian it's all academic.

Still falling here.
The last couple of outages haven't helped, but even prior to those it was still falling.
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Profile James SotherdenProject Donor
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Message 1462928 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 7:26:27 UTC

GPU use is on the rise here, Not falling. And most likely its because of credit new. Everyone lost RAC when V7 came out. So, To get it back GPU's are being bought and thrown at the problem. I plan on doing the same.


[/quote]

Old James

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Message 1462961 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 8:52:50 UTC - in response to Message 1462856.  

I'm still looking for my RAC flat-line; Fahrenheit or Canadian it's all academic.

Still falling here.
The last couple of outages haven't helped, but even prior to those it was still falling.


Still falling on my intel host too when stopped to process AstroPulse on GPU there.
So, does MB7-only "flatline" achievable at all? Maybe we seeing some slow devaluation of credit ? That host quite stable, used 24/7 almost w/o user interaction, always has work (cause its GPUs quite slow)... but RAC still falling.

Other hosts crunch AP too so no sense to look for their RAC behavior at all - no AP tasks - RAC goes down, AP fetched - RAC goes up...
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Message 1462970 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 9:30:05 UTC

This happened to AP credits also.

3 years ago you got an average of ~1000 credits for one AP but a GPU took almost 3 hours to finnish one.
One year later you got approx 900 cr, now its ~700 -800cr.


With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

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Message 1463002 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 10:49:42 UTC

I only do AP's on CPU's , but these days I rarely see many over 750 now.

Cheers.

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Message 1463003 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 10:57:53 UTC
Last modified: 11 Jan 2014, 11:00:57 UTC

The problem with "creditscrew" is well known and was related several times on this forum. The solution is "political", until then we need live with that. The actual solution is well known and some was even worked on that but... politics is allways ahead of good engenhering. On the real world, AP is paying about 70% of the real number and MB even less about 40-50% only. We can´t do nothing (beside complains simply allways ignored by the admins) at our side. If you want more RAC crunch all the AP WU you could get, when AP is gone, crunch MB. This solution is something i personaly hate! I want to choose what type of work to crunch and receive the right credit to do that.


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Message 1463005 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 11:01:29 UTC - in response to Message 1463003.  

The problem with "creditscrew" is well known and was related several times on this forum. The solution is "political", until then we need live with that. The actual solution is well known and some was even worked on that but... politics is allways ahead of good engenhering. On the real world, AP is paying about 70% of the real number and MB even less about 40-50% only. We can´t do nothing (beside complains simply allways ignored by the admins) at our side.


I just mentioned it is not MB7 related thats all.
I`m here for doing science and all getting the same credits.
Its fine by me.
With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

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Message 1463009 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 11:11:20 UTC - in response to Message 1463005.  
Last modified: 11 Jan 2014, 11:12:15 UTC

Mike is right, we are all here for the science or as i call "a dream" try to do our part and help to find our little green friends. Leave the politics and creditscrew aside, i just point the real reason why the credit is so low.


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Message 1463088 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 14:35:34 UTC

This thread should have been called "BOINC, you need to give Standard Credit to GPUs".

It's been pointed out several times - not least by Eric Korpela himself - that SETI has no intention of paying distorted credits, but neither does SETI (by itself, as a single project) have the resources to fix the undoubted problems with the credit system for the whole BOINC community.

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Message 1463103 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 15:18:36 UTC - in response to Message 1463088.  

This thread should have been called "BOINC, you need to give Standard Credit to GPUs".

It's been pointed out several times - not least by Eric Korpela himself - that SETI has no intention of paying distorted credits, but neither does SETI (by itself, as a single project) have the resources to fix the undoubted problems with the credit system for the whole BOINC community.

Besides which, any proposed solutions or changes would have to be approved by Dr. Anderson, yes?
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bill

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Message 1463120 - Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 15:44:47 UTC - in response to Message 1463103.  

An interesting question. I wonder what software
licenses are involved?

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Message boards : Number crunching : Seti, you need to give Standard Credit to GPUs


 
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