The Universe Without a Big Bang?


log in

Advanced search

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : The Universe Without a Big Bang?

1 · 2 · Next
Author Message
Profile Julie
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 28 Oct 09
Posts: 18643
Credit: 3,371,693
RAC: 6,943
Belgium
Message 1457929 - Posted: 27 Dec 2013, 13:13:15 UTC
Last modified: 27 Dec 2013, 13:57:22 UTC

Intriguing New Equations Show a "Phased" Creation


Our own universe does not seem to have come into existence this way. The phase-transition model is not meant to replace the theory of the Big Bang. “Today, cosmologists know a lot about the early universe – we are not challenging their findings. But we are interested in the question, which phase transitions are possible for time and space and how the mathematical structure of spacetime can be described”


Astronomers combine mathematical models with observations to develop workable theories of how the Universe came to be. The mathematical underpinnings of the Big Bang theory include Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity along with standard theories of fundamental particles. Today NASA spacecraft such as the Hubble Space Telescope and the Spitzer Space Telescope continue Edwin Hubble's work of measuring the expansion of the Universe. One of the goals has long been to decide whether the Universe will expand forever, or whether it will someday stop, turn around, and collapse in a "Big Crunch?"
____________


rOZZ

Profile Chris S
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 31125
Credit: 11,292,114
RAC: 19,986
United Kingdom
Message 1458157 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 10:03:34 UTC

The three main theories about the Universe are/were

    1. The Big Bang universe that will continue expanding forever

    2. The Pulsating universe that will collapse one day and, then expand again, then collapse .....

    3. The Steady State theory that is now obsolete

The Big Bang is the current popular theory based on observations that show that everything we see is moving away from us at an increasing rate, which seems to suggest that at some time in the past there was some sort of massive explosion that flung matter everywhere from a central point. However it is not clear what caused the bang, and what it is expanding into. There are many theories on the origin of the universe and Julies one is yet another for the list.

My own theory is a combination of Steady State and Big Bang. What we are observing on earth is not the entire universe just our little bit of it. The whole universe is out there and always has been, and stretches infinitely in all directions, that's the steady state bit. What we are seeing today is the remnants of a gigantic super massive black hole that exploded in our local bit of the universe some 14 billion years ago, thats the big bang bit.

Imagine it like a balloon full of flour in space that suddenly goes pop and shoots flour particles in all directions. With no gravity or air resistance to stop them they expand in all directions with increasing speed, which explains our observations. At some point all the remnants of our local big bang will be devoured by other black holes somewhere else, and another big bang will happen there when the matter gets so large it can no longer be contained by the black hole. It's like being eating too much and throwing up.

My theory explains what we see, answers the question what it is expanding into, and suggests the cause of the bangs. There are likely local big bangs occurring all over the universe, as it is a self powered system that just continues on. No doubt some clever scientist could prove it all impossible in one sentence!!

Profile Chris S
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 31125
Credit: 11,292,114
RAC: 19,986
United Kingdom
Message 1458447 - Posted: 29 Dec 2013, 12:01:40 UTC

It's been my little pet theory for some time now but it's just as good as some others I reckon:-) We think we know what black holes are in that due to immense gravity, matter gets drawn in including planets and smaller stars, and even light cannot escape, hence the term "black". Wormholes or Einstein–Rosen bridges, are hypothetical features of spacetime that would be fundamentally a "shortcut" through spacetime.

It's all to do with time dilation in the Special theory of relativity, and we know that atomic clocks on the Space shuttle run slightly slower than reference clocks on Earth, while clocks on GPS and Galileo satellites run slightly faster Time Dilation.

Most of us think of time and space as two different things. Time is a measure of the lapse between two events. On earth we choose to divide the lapse during one rotation of the earth into 24 sections called hours, then again in 60 sections called minutes, and again into 60 sections called seconds. One circuit around the sun takes 365 1/4 days, which we call a year, divided into 12 unequal portions called months.

We live in a finite existence, things are born then they die, things begin then they end. The human mind has difficulty in imagining the in-finite. If I look at a table I can see the top and all four sides. If I turn it upside down I can see the underneath. In other words I can see it in its entirety, from beginning to end. It is an alien concept to think of interstellar space as going on forever in all directions, has always been there, and always will be ie infinite.

But our universe is usually interpreted from a Euclidean space perspective, which regards space as consisting of three dimensions, and time as consisting of one dimension. By combining space and time into a single manifold, called the Spacetime continuum. it is this that it is thought can be affected by velocity and gravity. I have difficulty in understanding how, but it is apparently so. I'll dismiss the idea of parallel universes so far, as I can't quite see how they could enter into the mix. I also don't believe in time travel, as in can you go back and kill your father before you were born.

Lynn
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 20 Nov 00
Posts: 3609
Credit: 486,192
RAC: 2,393
United States
Message 1458996 - Posted: 31 Dec 2013, 1:21:29 UTC - in response to Message 1458447.

As technology has evolved, astronomers are able to look back in time to the moments just after the Big Bang. This might seem to imply that the entire universe lies within our view. But the size of the universe depends on a number of things, including its shape and expansion. Just how big is the universe? The truth is, scientists can't put a number on it.

http://www.space.com/24073-how-big-is-the-universe.html
____________

WinterKnight
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 8505
Credit: 23,102,387
RAC: 16,151
United Kingdom
Message 1459065 - Posted: 31 Dec 2013, 7:53:54 UTC - in response to Message 1458996.

As technology has evolved, astronomers are able to look back in time to the moments just after the Big Bang. This might seem to imply that the entire universe lies within our view. But the size of the universe depends on a number of things, including its shape and expansion. Just how big is the universe? The truth is, scientists can't put a number on it.

http://www.space.com/24073-how-big-is-the-universe.html

I read some time ago that scientists have used the WMAP data to essentially draw triangles as big as possible. They then measure the angles of the triangles to see if they add up to 180 degrees or not.

Triangles with angles measuring 180 degrees are flat and therefore the universe is infinite. If not then the universe will be curved.

So far the triangles measured are within 3 decimal places of 180 degrees so they said the universe is infinite.

Cannot find the original article, sorry.

Profile Julie
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 28 Oct 09
Posts: 18643
Credit: 3,371,693
RAC: 6,943
Belgium
Message 1459085 - Posted: 31 Dec 2013, 10:41:37 UTC
Last modified: 31 Dec 2013, 11:26:06 UTC

This article could shed some light on the matter.

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/features/exhibit/map_shape.html

[edit]The quest to understand the precise geometry and shape of our universe began thousands of years ago, when mathematicians and astronomers used mathematical models to try and explain their observations. While there seem to be some irregularities in the WMAP data that throw the conflicting analyses and conclusions into doubt, there is hope that the data from the Planck satellite will ultimately lead us to the answer. Even if it does not, we will continue to develop new models and methods so that one day we can determine the shape of the Universe.
____________


rOZZ

Profile Julie
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 28 Oct 09
Posts: 18643
Credit: 3,371,693
RAC: 6,943
Belgium
Message 1467774 - Posted: 23 Jan 2014, 17:31:10 UTC
Last modified: 23 Jan 2014, 17:31:31 UTC

Very interesting book by Wun-Yi Shu, Institute of Statistics, National Tsing Hua University

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1007/1007.1750.pdf
____________


rOZZ

Profile Julie
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 28 Oct 09
Posts: 18643
Credit: 3,371,693
RAC: 6,943
Belgium
Message 1467860 - Posted: 23 Jan 2014, 20:10:55 UTC

Those formulas are just too much for me...
____________


rOZZ

WinterKnight
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 8505
Credit: 23,102,387
RAC: 16,151
United Kingdom
Message 1467865 - Posted: 23 Jan 2014, 20:25:55 UTC - in response to Message 1467860.

Those formulas are just too much for me...

You have to start with the easy stuff like e^{i \pi} + 1 = 0

Profile Julie
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 28 Oct 09
Posts: 18643
Credit: 3,371,693
RAC: 6,943
Belgium
Message 1467875 - Posted: 23 Jan 2014, 20:57:06 UTC - in response to Message 1467865.
Last modified: 23 Jan 2014, 21:27:47 UTC

Those formulas are just too much for me...

You have to start with the easy stuff like e^{i \pi} + 1 = 0



Euler's identity...

[edit]Makes me think of the gelijkheids formule in Dutch, couldn't quite find the English equivalent. I guess you could call it the equality formula.
[edit2]darn maths!!!!
____________


rOZZ

Lynn
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 20 Nov 00
Posts: 3609
Credit: 486,192
RAC: 2,393
United States
Message 1467944 - Posted: 24 Jan 2014, 0:26:55 UTC - in response to Message 1467875.

The Big Bang did happen. There is proof. Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson

The Large Horn Antenna and the Discovery of Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation.
____________

Profile William Rothamel
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 25 Oct 06
Posts: 2465
Credit: 1,171,916
RAC: 103
United States
Message 1467971 - Posted: 24 Jan 2014, 2:24:47 UTC

I used to ride my bicyle past that antenna at lunch when I worked for Bell Labs. It really isn't that big--maybe 12 feet high or so. Made out of what just looked like galvanized sheet metal.

Profile Chris S
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 31125
Credit: 11,292,114
RAC: 19,986
United Kingdom
Message 1468161 - Posted: 24 Jan 2014, 12:39:17 UTC

The universe can simply be thought of as a giant globe that is infinite in size in all directions. All this stuff about curved planes and warping space time is just scientists trying to explain what they don't understand, and formulas that don't work unless they have the missing item X.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelijkheid_van_Parseval

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parseval%27s_identity

Profile Julie
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 28 Oct 09
Posts: 18643
Credit: 3,371,693
RAC: 6,943
Belgium
Message 1468187 - Posted: 24 Jan 2014, 13:27:53 UTC - in response to Message 1468161.
Last modified: 24 Jan 2014, 13:38:48 UTC

The universe can simply be thought of as a giant globe that is infinite in size in all directions. All this stuff about curved planes and warping space time is just scientists trying to explain what they don't understand, and formulas that don't work unless they have the missing item X.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelijkheid_van_Parseval

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parseval%27s_identity



That's it! Thanx Chris:) (gelijkheid van Parseval...)
____________


rOZZ

Profile Chris S
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 31125
Credit: 11,292,114
RAC: 19,986
United Kingdom
Message 1468195 - Posted: 24 Jan 2014, 13:55:19 UTC

Why not a cube instead?

Because the distance from us that we can see is constant in each direction, If it was a cube it would be further to the corners than the sides. Cubism went out with Picasso 100 years ago.

msattler
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 Jul 00
Posts: 38320
Credit: 559,708,567
RAC: 646,369
United States
Message 1469527 - Posted: 27 Jan 2014, 14:09:34 UTC

The universe, as most of us know it now, indeed started with a 'big bang'.
That was God making the whole shebang, kids.
He liked fireworks too.
There was no other show quite like that one, and although in our infancy, we were not quite able to appreciate it, we can, with a bit of research, detect it now.
All part of the amazing universe that we now inhabit.
Kaboom, kitties. Kaboom.
____________
*********************************************
Embrace your inner kitty...ya know ya wanna!

I have met a few friends in my life.
Most were cats.

Lynn
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 20 Nov 00
Posts: 3609
Credit: 486,192
RAC: 2,393
United States
Message 1472403 - Posted: 3 Feb 2014, 18:57:13 UTC - in response to Message 1469527.

Earthlings may be extreme latecomers to a universe full of life, with alien microbes possibly teeming on exoplanets beginning just 15 million years after the Big Bang, new research suggests.

Alien Life May Have Evolved Just After Big Bang, New Research Suggests


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/03/alien-life-big-bang_n_4716745.html

Aye.
____________

Profile Julie
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 28 Oct 09
Posts: 18643
Credit: 3,371,693
RAC: 6,943
Belgium
Message 1472434 - Posted: 3 Feb 2014, 20:11:16 UTC

Thanx Lynn:)
____________


rOZZ

Lynn
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 20 Nov 00
Posts: 3609
Credit: 486,192
RAC: 2,393
United States
Message 1472534 - Posted: 4 Feb 2014, 0:41:29 UTC - in response to Message 1472434.

Welcome Julie :)

I don't think anyone of these theories makes sense.
Mother Nature's, secrets may never be known.
____________

Profile Julie
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 28 Oct 09
Posts: 18643
Credit: 3,371,693
RAC: 6,943
Belgium
Message 1472627 - Posted: 4 Feb 2014, 7:47:25 UTC

Agreed!
____________


rOZZ

1 · 2 · Next

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : The Universe Without a Big Bang?

Copyright © 2014 University of California