Is there a FAQ or a thread somewhere that gives advice on how to build a system optimized for Seti@home? I've heard that Seti isn't so much dependent on core speed as it is bus and RAM, where other BOINC aps are more dependent on core speed. I'm picking out hardware and to be honest, this machine spends 98% of it's time crunching for Seti. I seriously might sit at it an hour/month. (since it's a budget server, it doesn't have a crunching capable GPU in it.)

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-mpyusko

Is there a FAQ or a thread somewhere that gives advice on how to build a system optimized for Seti@home? I've heard that Seti isn't so much dependent on core speed as it is bus and RAM, where other BOINC aps are more dependent on core speed. I'm picking out hardware and to be honest, this machine spends 98% of it's time crunching for Seti. I seriously might sit at it an hour/month. (since it's a budget server, it doesn't have a crunching capable GPU in it.)

I'm not aware of any single source of that kind of information, but perhaps others will have some suggestions. Are you talking about computer xxxx553? For a gpu suggestion, can you give us a price target? And perhaps whether you prefer AMD/ATI or Nvidia?

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Another Fred
Support SETI@home when you search the Web with GoodSearch or shop online with GoodShop.

It's basically a file-server with RAID 1. It stores our family's photos, videos and music. I store my downloads, user profiles there, along with FTP, HTTP, SSH... a typical LAMP stack. The majority of the time it sits idle, crunching away. There are a few times when I do apt-get upgrades that I actucally utilize the CPU. The rest of the time.... crunching. Now I'm not particularity flush with cash so I'm not going to shell out for anything more than an integrated GPU. So my when I'm building for Seti@Home, what should I favor? CPU, BUS, RAM, HD (or SSD)? I'm fairly certain that Seti doesn't require more more than space from a HD, so any drive will do. Beside, with the RAID 1, I see an increase of performance. So that leaves Core speed, Bus speed or RAM? I heard, though I can't seem to find it now, that Seti interfaces with the RAM a lot and that is where bottlenecks tend to be in CPU crunching though I can't seem to confirm it.

I typically use last-gen/clearance hardware to save money. I put the real $ in my daily rig. The server running right now I built for less than $100 (Not including Hard Drives and a recycled case).

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-mpyusko

It's basically a file-server with RAID 1. It stores our family's photos, videos and music. I store my downloads, user profiles there, along with FTP, HTTP, SSH... a typical LAMP stack. The majority of the time it sits idle, crunching away. There are a few times when I do apt-get upgrades that I actucally utilize the CPU. The rest of the time.... crunching. Now I'm not particularity flush with cash so I'm not going to shell out for anything more than an integrated GPU. So my when I'm building for Seti@Home, what should I favor? CPU, BUS, RAM, HD (or SSD)? I'm fairly certain that Seti doesn't require more more than space from a HD, so any drive will do. Beside, with the RAID 1, I see an increase of performance. So that leaves Core speed, Bus speed or RAM? I heard, though I can't seem to find it now, that Seti interfaces with the RAM a lot and that is where bottlenecks tend to be in CPU crunching though I can't seem to confirm it.

I typically use last-gen/clearance hardware to save money. I put the real $ in my daily rig. The server running right now I built for less than $100 (Not including Hard Drives and a recycled case).

Unless you need to build a new server anyway, your money would probably be better spent on adding a GPU to the existing one. I got a GT 640 pretty cheap (~$60, IIRC). On a dollar spent vs. Boinc credit basis, even a modest GPU will do a lot more for you than last year's top of the line mobo and CPU.

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

If you aren't going to install a GPU, the main boost will be number (and computing power)of CPU cores. A CPU with a large cache will generally help as it reduces the external RAM reads, and that speeds things up by a useful amount.

BUT, if the machine is only a file server, buying an I7 for it is a poor investment. You would be better off to buy an Pentium dual core and spend the difference on a GPU. Easily get 10X the throughput for the same $$ that way.

Hard disk has pretty much zero effect on crunching.

Amount of RAM is not significant. As long as the is enough to run the OS, any other running tasks, and ~50mb per SETI task it will be fine. If the system rums short on RAM, then it's going to bog down, but if it's not using the page file, more RAM has little effect. Other projects do use more, but putting huge numbers of gB in is a waste if it's only crunching and file serving.

Ram and bus speed will have a small effect, but it's generally in the "few %" range. So again buying an expensive system board and RAM to give a 10% boost is not really a good investment, when the same money on a GPU would give you 5 or 10X upgrade.

Personally I would build the machine with the specs it needs to do the task at hand. (not very much) Keep the head, noise and power use down by going with a basic CPU. Then take the money you save, and buy some goodies (Better GPU) for your daily driver where you will see the advantage.

Ian

Ok, so favor the CPU that has more cache...... Throw in a cheapo GPU. Ok.

So I guess with this server, upgrading the Cpu freq is going to be the best bet since they don't offer a one with more cache. (just bought a pair for $9 off ebay)

However, with my desktop, I guees I need to start saving my pennies for a CPU with more cache since for one with more cores, I might as well buy a new cpu/mobo (too much).

I doubt there is any helping this one LOL. (it is my oldest running crunching machine.)

If I upgrade the CPU and don't do anything else, will it mess with the stats, like recognize it as a new machine?

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-mpyusko

Not sure why this is, but anytime you just update a driver, you get a new Comp ID.
I hate it with a passion.
There used to be a way to restore an old ID, but not sure if that still works.

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Pluto will always be a planet to me.

Seti Ambassador
Not to late to order an Anni Shirt

So I guess with this server, upgrading the Cpu freq is going to be the best bet ...

However, with my desktop, I guees I need to start saving my pennies for a CPU with more cache ...

No and No (unless you need (much) better CPU for your own purpose, not for BOINC)
It's useless to spend money on 10% better CPU 'upgrade'

As already noted many times - for BOINC/SETI get a 'mid-range' GPU (just ask before you buy - some of them may be useless here)

... just bought a pair for $9 off ebay

I don't believe you can buy "pair of servers" nor "pair of Xeons" for $9
What do you mean?

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- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 

Not sure why this is, but anytime you just update a driver, you get a new Comp ID.

I've updated my drivers many times and I'm still using my original computer ID from 2005 (before my current OS was even available).

Not sure why this is, but anytime you just update a driver, you get a new Comp ID.

It seems that last time you get a new (duplicate) Comp ID was Dec 2011 (for this Phenom 9150e):
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/hosts_user.php?sort=rpc_time&rev=0&show_all=1&userid=729113

(more probable reason may be network problems, not change in video driver)

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- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 

... just bought a pair for $9 off ebay

I don't believe you can buy "pair of servers" nor "pair of Xeons" for $9
What do you mean?

Those would be ~10 year old Xeon chips. I've got a couple of pairs here you can have for the cost of postage. The copper in the heat sinks and steel in the old server case is worth more for scrap than the the CPUs ;)

I've got a Celeron laptop that will out crunch them, but they do make good space heaters in winter

Ian

... just bought a pair for $9 off ebay

I don't believe you can buy "pair of servers" nor "pair of Xeons" for $9
What do you mean?

Those would be ~10 year old Xeon chips. ...

So this server:
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/show_host_detail.php?hostid=6694553

... do not have one 4-core Xeon chip but have in fact two P4-like chips, one core each with HT (so BOINC see 'Number of processors 4')?
http://ark.intel.com/products/33103/64-bit-Intel-Xeon-Processor-2_80-GHz-2M-Cache-800-MHz-FSB


If this is ~10 year old server it will have only PCI slots (less options for GPU) and very slight possibility to have PCI Express 1.0 (introduced 2003):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#PCI_Express_1.0a

(if any chipset for P4-based Xeon support PCIe)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Xeon_chipsets#NetBurst-based_Xeon_chipsets

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- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 

So I guess with this server, upgrading the Cpu freq is going to be the best bet ...

However, with my desktop, I guees I need to start saving my pennies for a CPU with more cache ...

No and No (unless you need (much) better CPU for your own purpose, not for BOINC)
It's useless to spend money on 10% better CPU 'upgrade'

As already noted many times - for BOINC/SETI get a 'mid-range' GPU (just ask before you buy - some of them may be useless here)

... just bought a pair for $9 off ebay

I don't believe you can buy "pair of servers" nor "pair of Xeons" for $9
What do you mean?

I bought a pair of matching 3.6GHz CPUs for $9 off ebay (Socket 604 so don't get too excited. LOL)

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-mpyusko

It has PCI, PCI-e, PCI-X. The CPU's just came in the mail today. You are correct that they are old, but Like I said, I bought the CPUs/mobo/4GB and RAM for less than $100. It was purpose built to be redundent since it houses our digital photos. the Whitepapers and datasheets are impressive. Raid Drives, Mirrored ECC RAM, Dual CPUs, Dual GigE NICS, IPMI, etc.... Everything about it is redundant (except the mobo and PSU.) I also use it for web development, media serving and crunching. So when it boils down to it, yes, a desktop for the same price-point could out perform it, I would not have the redundant capacities.

The PCI-e is 8x so I have thoght about getting a low-end GT 640 and using a 16x to 8x adapter to convert it. I would get decent crunching and 1280x1024 to match my monitor. Something the Voodoo 3 2000 16MB PCI that is in it, can't do (oddly enough). I keep forgetting which board and slots I actually have. I'm about to crack it open and upgrade the CPUs, so I'll take a snapshot of the internals. It lives in the basement, I actually shrink-wrapped the desk to keep the dust out and cut and inlet hole for a HEPA grade Shop-vac filter and the cooling fans in the rear but up to foam and pump the exhaust heat out. The desk also contains the monitor, Wifi Router, and 16 port GigE switch. only the Keyboard and mouse and outside the shrink-wrap but they are covered by plastic anyway most the time. It looks odd, a bit crude, but it's an unheated stonewalled basement so it's 55F and dry year round. Perfect for a server.

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-mpyusko

The Server is up and running with the 2x 3.6GHz CPU's I bumped up from
Measured floating point speed 397.14 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 2653.36 million ops/sec
to
Measured floating point speed 551 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 3395 million ops/sec

Why so slow? I have a Pentium M laptop that has better numbers and it is P3 tech not P4 tech like the Xeon.

As far as slots go, it has:
1, PCI-X 133MHz;
2, PCI-X 100MHz
1, PCI 32-bit/33MHz 5V
1, PCI Express X 8
1, PCI Express X 4 (8x length)

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-mpyusko

Not sure why this is, but anytime you just update a driver, you get a new Comp ID.

It seems that last time you get a new (duplicate) Comp ID was Dec 2011 (for this Phenom 9150e):
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/hosts_user.php?sort=rpc_time&rev=0&show_all=1&userid=729113

(more probable reason may be network problems, not change in video driver)

The last hardware update was in 2010. The other assigned Comp IDs had to be updated drivers.

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Pluto will always be a planet to me.

Seti Ambassador
Not to late to order an Anni Shirt

One of the old boxes like that I've got has the full on redundant stuff. Three hot swap power supplies, hot swap SCSI hard drives etc But with ~6 HIGH power cooling fans in there it makes too much noise to run in the house !!!

All that noise, and my Celeron laptop will out perform it, with one core. ;-)

Ian

Why so slow? I have a Pentium M laptop that has better numbers and it is P3 tech not P4 tech like the Xeon.

The Pentium III architecture was an evolutionary bump from the Pentium II, which in turn was from the Pentium Pro. Each successive architecture found a way to increase the Instructions Per Cycle (IPC) through innovative designs of the processor cores.

The Pentium 4 and it's Xeon siblings were a radical departure from the previous Pentium offerings in that it focused purely on raw speed, which ended up reducing it's IPC and lengthening it's instruction pipelines (the Pentium III had a 12 or 13 stage pipeline while early generation Pentium 4s had a 20 stage pipeline). This allowed Intel to focus on ramping up CPU speeds to well over 3GHz while the Pentium III Coppermine core was struggling to go above 1GHz. Intel figured that the higher speeds would offset the lengthier pipelines.

After running into some maximum thermal and power designs from the Pentium Ds (a dual-core variant of the Pentium 4), Intel decided to go back to the drawing board and worked on a new CPU architecture that evolved from the Pentium III, refocusing on IPC rather than raw speed, which eventually saw the released of the Pentium M, then a few years later the Intel Core and on to the Core 2.

In essence, the Pentium 4 class CPUs were not all that speedy, with many Pentium Ms being able to match or surpass their performance while using a fraction of the power of the older Pentium 4 generation.

In essence, the Pentium 4 class CPUs were not all that speedy, with many Pentium Ms being able to match or surpass their performance while using a fraction of the power of the older Pentium 4 generation.

Thanks for the info. Do you write for wikipedia?

Interesting to note, with Hyperthreading enabled I get:
Measured floating point speed 551 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 3395 million ops/sec
for each "CPU" (x4). With Hyperthreading disabled, i get:
Measured floating point speed 790 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 5988 million ops/sec
for each "CPU" (x2). I also noticed if I enable cache prefetching in the BIOS (while Hyperthreading is active) I take a huge hit, down to 492/3180.

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-mpyusko

There are two lines in the BIOS that seem to affect performance, but I am not clear what they really do. http://download.intel.com/support/motherboards/server/se7520bd2/sb/se7520bd2_server_board_tps_r23.pdf

Hardware Prefetcher: 
Help Text:________________________Desciption
This option enables / disables____For DP/MP servers, the default
the processor hardware____________should be set based on
Prefetch Feature. Changing________performance results observed      
the default may affect____________during platform validation and    
performance depending on__________testing.
the application being used.

Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch:
Help Text:________________________Desciption
This option enables / disables____For DP/MP servers, the default
the processor Adjacent Cache______should be set based on
Line Prefetch Feature.____________performance results observed
Changing the default may__________during platform validation and
affect performance depending______testing.
on the application being used.

As I stated in a previous post, Enabling Hardware Prefetcher seems to result in lower performance scores. Not sure what the other one does yet.

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-mpyusko