Why is teaching atheism good?


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Message 1446452 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 1:06:34 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 22:50:50 UTC

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Message 1446453 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 2:00:47 UTC - in response to Message 1446452.

Guy, I have no problem with people who have faith, but the problem I have is when faith based beliefs are being taught in science classes.
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Message 1446454 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 2:03:46 UTC - in response to Message 1446452.

I think that you will find that something above 40% of Britons are atheist and the US is probably 20 % or so. You are all 100% atheist if you don't believe in Zeus, Thor, Poseidon. Eros , Isis etc etc.

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Message 1446459 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 2:25:34 UTC - in response to Message 1446457.

Everyone has a right to post.
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Message 1446464 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 2:46:41 UTC - in response to Message 1446452.

EH? Does putting effort into the believers into NOT believing make any sense what so ever?
Anybody who thinks this makes sense, please explain to me why putting effort into FORCING 61 out of 62 people in America into believing that life is meaningless makes sense.
Standing by for real, serious answers.....

i don't think there is such a thing as "NOT believing".
"effort", as in "responding", is basic "conservation of energy" within a dynamic system.
You'd be amazed at what Wonders, "Atheists/Agnostics", believe in.
I don't see much evidence of a "Creator".
With 95%+ of the Universe hidden from "Us" we really don't have enough date to decide.

I don't understand the effort, by "Some", to inject a variable into the equation, that must be "undefined".
It's just Bad Math.


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Message 1446468 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 2:57:55 UTC - in response to Message 1446464.
Last modified: 25 Nov 2013, 2:59:04 UTC

don't understand the effort, by "Some", to inject a variable into the equation, that must be "undefined".
It's just Bad Math.

Good point.
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Message 1446469 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 3:09:39 UTC - in response to Message 1446452.
Last modified: 25 Nov 2013, 3:14:30 UTC

At most, according to the latest information, there are about 5 million folks trained in science and engineering in the U.S. Now, assuming they are *all* atheists because of their academic training, then that means at most 1 out of every 62 people in America is an atheist because of their academic education.

How hard should we push those other 61 poeple into believing there is nothing to life except what we experience in our short lives? How hard should we push our media into repetatively broadcasting that when life ends, we end? How hard should we push that the religions of America are nothing more than a scam? How hard should we push that the leaders of our country (Like Obama) are ultimately in charge of our short lives and that we should put our faith in people like President Obama for our short lives and the more we put our faith into him, the better our lives will be and the better the lives of our children will be?

Eh? Serious questions.

EH? Does putting effort into the believers into NOT believing make any sense what so ever?

Anybody who thinks this makes sense, please explain to me why putting effort into FORCING 61 out of 62 people in America into believing that life is meaningless makes sense.

Standing by for real, serious answers.....


I don't usually post in this forum, but I wrote this for when it was in the Science (non-SETI) forum and then got an error when it saved... found that the last few posts starting with this one had been split off into this thread in Politics. So, I may not reply again...

When there are shows all over your TV on Sunday mornings telling you there is no God,
When people knock on your doors to "spread the good news" of there being no God,
When "In no God we trust" replaces the two-centuries-old neutral national motto "Out of many, unity", gets printed on all the money, hung on school walls and in courtrooms, and everyone pretends it was there all along,
When the Pledge of Allegiance recited by millions of schoolchildren, most of whom think they have to, has "one nation, under no God, indivisible..." added two centuries after the nation is founded and everyone pretends it was there all along,
When politicians and witnesses are sworn in with their right hand on a copy of The God Delusion and take the oath to perform their duties "so help me no God",
When two of the national holidays are Madalyn Murray O'Hair's and Richard Dawkins' birthdays,
When atheist lobbyists all over the country are telling schools to teach Unintelligent Design, a pseudoscience which claims science has found proof that there is no God that scientists are conspiring to hide,
When non-believers etch the Atheist Manifesto on large granite slabs and donate them to courthouses in the hopes that they'll be put on display on public land, unconstitutionally, and ironically by the very entity that is supposed to best understand and uphold the constitution,
When Christian soldiers have to litigate for decades to be buried with a cross marking their graves when they give their lives for their countries, and watch their fellow soldiers get special leave and privileges to attend atheist meetings, often hosted by their superiors...

...then maybe you'll have something to complain about. Until then, everything above is a reversal of the way things really are.
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Message 1446473 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 3:18:40 UTC
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Message 1446477 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 3:28:48 UTC - in response to Message 1446473.

At most, or at least, 1/62 advocate educating the public about what they cannot prove. Is that a good thing?


I wouldn't say that's even a close number. I can dig up enough surveys that show there is a much higher percentage of non-believers.

ie Many people avoid the "atheist" label because it's been so stigmatized so call themselves agnostics or non-religious instead, the word "atheist" has been so deliberately misdefined that many don't think it applies to them, many non-religious people born into a religion who no longer believe it or practice it still mark themselves as "nominal" members on a census.

Too complex of an issue for such a seemingly precise answer as "1/62".
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Message 1446479 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 4:00:48 UTC - in response to Message 1446477.
Last modified: 25 Nov 2013, 4:01:10 UTC

Too complex of an issue for such a seemingly precise answer as "1/62".

It does not matter what the ratio is, religious beliefs should not be taught in science classes.
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Message 1446480 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 4:04:53 UTC - in response to Message 1446479.

Too complex of an issue for such a seemingly precise answer as "1/62".

It does not matter what the ratio is, religious beliefs should not be taught in science classes.

Define religious beliefs.

Then define the belief in atheism.
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Message 1446482 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 4:09:09 UTC - in response to Message 1446480.

Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a conjecture or premise to be true.[1] Dispositional and occurrent belief concerns the contextual activation of the belief into thoughts (reactive of propositions) or ideas (based on the belief's premise).
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Message 1446483 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 4:17:10 UTC - in response to Message 1446480.

Then define the belief in atheism.


And you've managed to get it backwards and illustrate that deliberate(?) misdefinition I mentioned earlier.

I'll post again in this forum when another thread is split off, and not before.
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Message 1446484 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 4:20:52 UTC - in response to Message 1446473.

At most, or at least, 1/62 advocate educating the public about what they cannot prove. Is that a good thing?

You're trying to say that 61 of 62 people advocate replacing the "Unknown" with the "Undefined/Unknowable".
Ignorance is Bliss.

Besides, if all you have to deal with is 1-in-62 individuals, what are you worried about?
Just imagine if you had 61-in-62 individuals trying to cram the "Arithmetic of Their Conversion" onto you.
What no variables? Just a big "Undefined/Unknowable" that you can project every BS on to.
People don't teach atheism.
God is a "Black Hole in all dimensions", for science.
Let parents guide their children into the Spiritual Realm.
Do you really want the State intruding onto the realm of the spiritual?

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Message 1446486 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 4:41:59 UTC

Isn't it funny how religious groups are starting to try and hold congregations in local pubs these days as the majority people are not willing these days to go places of worship anymore.

Cheers.

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Message 1446489 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 4:48:51 UTC - in response to Message 1446483.

Then define the belief in atheism.


And you've managed to get it backwards and illustrate that deliberate(?) misdefinition I mentioned earlier.

I'll post again in this forum when another thread is split off, and not before.

We need a base sample from which to work from. This is called science.

Please define both, lets come to agreement. Then we can move on from there...
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Message 1446518 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 9:15:00 UTC

You asked for some definitions, try these for starters:


Religion (aka religious belief)
Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
or
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

Atheism
The belief that there is no god or gods.
(Which in my mind is a paradox, because by holding a belief you are making a "god" of what you believe is, so falling into the second definition above)


I will add a third, which I think applies to more people that "atheism"

Agnostic
One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
or
One who is sceptical about the existence of god(s) but does not profess true atheism.
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Message 1446538 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 10:45:49 UTC

Religious Education should not be taught in schools. That is down to the parents and their churches.

Schools are to educate people in surviving in the real world.

This is what happens when it is taught in schools
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Message 1446539 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 10:50:59 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 22:49:33 UTC

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Message 1446541 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 10:54:14 UTC - in response to Message 1446539.
Last modified: 25 Nov 2013, 10:59:04 UTC

Why is teaching atheism a good thing for humanity?


Got to give the great unwashed something to believe in so that they can continue to slave away making the elite richer.

An atheists view on religion
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