Dark matter/Dark Energy


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Message 1435788 - Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 22:55:35 UTC

Scientists could be nearing the final phase of the search for dark matter: the enigmatic substance thought to make up a quarter of our Universe.

But if this cannot see any signs of the elusive particles, then it could be that physicists have got the concept of dark matter wrong and will have to come up with some new theories.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24733131

Thoughts anyone??


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Message 1435814 - Posted: 31 Oct 2013, 0:11:08 UTC - in response to Message 1435788.
Last modified: 31 Oct 2013, 0:54:20 UTC

I say let's send a probe to bring back some of the stuff.

So now we have neutrinos and Wimps streaming through us all the time.

Are we sure that the missing "mass" can't be accounted for by figuring out the effective mass of the neutrino (said to be zero) as it pushes through the Higgs Field.

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Message 1435909 - Posted: 31 Oct 2013, 5:05:06 UTC

Fiat LUX!
Tullio
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Message 1435918 - Posted: 31 Oct 2013, 5:42:43 UTC - in response to Message 1435909.

Fiat LUX!
Tullio


Guessing here. Let there be light.

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Message 1435922 - Posted: 31 Oct 2013, 5:55:45 UTC

Latest from "Nature":
Missing mass
Yes, Fiat Lux means let there be light.

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Message 1435925 - Posted: 31 Oct 2013, 6:15:38 UTC - in response to Message 1435922.

Latest from "Nature":
Missing mass
Yes, Fiat Lux means let there be light.


Thank You, tullio!

Every science show claims it's out there. Like a spiders web. Now know detection
of dark matter. Physicists must be banging their heads over this news.

Thanks for the article.
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Message 1436266 - Posted: 31 Oct 2013, 22:18:29 UTC - in response to Message 1435925.

Theory maybe they can't find or detect dark matter because we live in a region of the galaxy that has very little of it. It seems to clump and be in regions of space, there is alot of it but maybe not around us or very little. It seems very exotic, doesn't interact with normal matter, strange odd stuff and it's obvious very hard to detect.
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Message 1436399 - Posted: 1 Nov 2013, 8:30:17 UTC

The AMS-2 Spectrometer on the ISS is capable of detecting any dark mass but prof. Samuel Ting is very tight lipped about it.
Tullio
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Message 1436453 - Posted: 1 Nov 2013, 13:38:44 UTC

I don't believe that there is any such thing as dark energy or dark matter, and never have done. All that's happened is that scientists have got equations that cannot be balanced unless certain substances exist. So they give those substances names and go looking for them. Never seems to occur to them that the equations might be wrong in the first place. The LHR will keep finding more and more unknown particles that interact in ways we don't yet understand. that is the best way forward, not ghost chasing.

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Message 1436483 - Posted: 1 Nov 2013, 15:04:29 UTC

Dark matter was called "missing mass" by Fritz Zwicky in 1935 who analyzed the dynamics of spiral galaxies. Dark energy is called for to explain the acceleration in the expansion of the universe as indicated by studying supernovae as "standard candles" in faraway galaxies. It could have other explanations. The LHC is meant to find the particles predicted by supersymmetry (SUSY) such as neutralinos, which could provide the dark matter, but so far none was found. We shall see what the future holds when it gets to 14 TeV.otherwise we shall have to wait for the next accelerator, the International Linear Collider, to be built in Japan. It's the "Spiral of high energies" foreseen by Angelo Baracca and Silvio Bergia in the Seventies. When an accelerator does not find the particles you are looking for you build a bigger one and cross your fingers.
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Message 1436670 - Posted: 1 Nov 2013, 21:07:24 UTC - in response to Message 1436453.

not ghost chasing.


I too think that there could be other explanations;but. let's wait and see what the best investigators in this field can come up with. Some pooh-poohed the Higgs Boson but it was found as was the Top Quark some time ago.

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Message 1436683 - Posted: 1 Nov 2013, 21:38:17 UTC

Some pooh-poohed the Higgs Boson but it was found

Sorry, it hasn't. They have found a "Higgs-like particle that needs further investigation.

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Message 1436769 - Posted: 2 Nov 2013, 0:23:01 UTC - in response to Message 1436683.

Dark matter has teased and tantalized physicists since the 1970s, when it was demonstrated that some invisible material must be providing the gravitational glue to hold galaxies together.

CERN, when back from recess will take up the dark matter. I hope they also take a look at dark flow, and dark energy.






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Message 1436935 - Posted: 2 Nov 2013, 8:09:13 UTC
Last modified: 2 Nov 2013, 8:09:47 UTC

Once in a while at Test4Theory@home I get a physics lesson from Peter Skands, project chief scientist, when one of the jobs we are running in a window emits some obscure error messages. He then explains to us volunteers the reasons behind them and thanks us for our cooperation.
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Message 1436953 - Posted: 2 Nov 2013, 10:25:39 UTC

some invisible material must be providing the gravitational glue to hold galaxies together.

I thought that most scientists think that there is a super massive black hole at the centre of each galaxy that holds all the stars in that galaxy together, by means of gravity. Now what holds the galaxies themsevles in position relative to each other may be a different question. Bits floating on the surface of a bowl of water usually clump together after a certain time but that is due to surface tension.

Quite happy to be proved wrong!

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Message 1436995 - Posted: 2 Nov 2013, 14:04:36 UTC - in response to Message 1436683.
Last modified: 2 Nov 2013, 14:08:05 UTC

Sorry, it hasn't. They have found a "Higgs-like particle that needs further investigation.


Should they then give back their Nobel Prizes ??

I say that they have found it- There may be more than one type.

Remember that these are all convenient fictions to explain what we observe. I tell my students that there is no such thing as an electron (as we characterize "it"). We can understand and control electricity effectively however.

Field theory and circuit theory can each be applied successfully to electrical circuits but they are quite different in conceptualization.

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Message 1437011 - Posted: 2 Nov 2013, 15:12:48 UTC - in response to Message 1436995.

To the electron! May it be useful to nobody!
Toast at the Cambridge Cavendish Laboratory in 1897 after the discovery of the electron by J.J.Thomson.
Tullio
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Message 1437078 - Posted: 2 Nov 2013, 18:13:10 UTC - in response to Message 1436953.

some invisible material must be providing the gravitational glue to hold galaxies together.

I thought that most scientists think that there is a super massive black hole at the centre of each galaxy that holds all the stars in that galaxy together, by means of gravity. Now what holds the galaxies themsevles in position relative to each other may be a different question. Bits floating on the surface of a bowl of water usually clump together after a certain time but that is due to surface tension.

Quite happy to be proved wrong!


Close galaxies do merge. I recall reading somewhere that Andromeda is on its way for a collision with Milky Way in a few billion years. I think there are larger structures of galaxies gravitationally bound as well. Galaxies further apart seem to move away due to universal expansion overpowering gravity.
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Message 1437153 - Posted: 2 Nov 2013, 23:29:13 UTC - in response to Message 1437078.

In the early 1990's, one thing was fairly certain about the expansion of the Universe. It might have enough energy density to stop its expansion and recollapse, it might have so little energy density that it would never stop expanding, but gravity was certain to slow the expansion as time went on. Granted, the slowing had not been observed, but, theoretically, the Universe had to slow. The Universe is full of matter and the attractive force of gravity pulls all matter together. Then came 1998 and the Hubble Space Telescope (HST) observations of very distant supernovae that showed that, a long time ago, the Universe was actually expanding more slowly than it is today. So the expansion of the Universe has not been slowing due to gravity, as everyone thought, it has been accelerating. No one expected this, no one knew how to explain it. But something was causing it.

http://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy/




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Message 1437246 - Posted: 3 Nov 2013, 5:44:28 UTC

Dark matter is proof that what we don't know about the universe far exceeds what we do know. And we may never have the capability to comprehend the whole picture. But it doesn't hurt to try.
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