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Profile JulieProject donor
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Message 1435145 - Posted: 29 Oct 2013, 13:27:28 UTC

I was just wondering how others feel about the LHC or any other particle accelerator for that matter.
I think it's quite dangerous what they're doing. It's playing with the basic elements of nature.
For instance, they could produce anti matter by accident and thereby annihilate all the matter as we know it!
I really think we should not experiment too much with elements on that scale. It's messing around with the balance that nature built and is still obtaining.
I know I'm not a scientist and I don't know that much about what they're doing but it scares me a bit. Humans can be an intelligent species but we know far from everything and should be very careful with nature. We can read about it all we want but experiments on a level like that are very dangerous IMHO.
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Message 1435149 - Posted: 29 Oct 2013, 13:45:10 UTC

How long has it been running already, and the world's still here ... ?

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Message 1435167 - Posted: 29 Oct 2013, 14:31:09 UTC - in response to Message 1435149.

How long has it been running already, and the world's still here ... ?



True...but I do think they're playing with fire sometimes. Like when they try to reproduce the big bang, is that really necessary? We're way out of our league there!
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Message 1435179 - Posted: 29 Oct 2013, 19:24:46 UTC
Last modified: 29 Oct 2013, 19:28:46 UTC

Note that we see far greater extreme 'atom smashing' every day as cosmic rays hit our atmosphere. There's a few experiments that watch out for the resulting 'air showers' of particles.

The LHC is still a long way off such everyday natural energy extremes. However, the LHC events are created in an exact position that can be carefully studied.

A more realistic question is whether we might be burning out a small spot in spacetime in repeating the same experiment so many times each second at the exact same spot! Kinda like wearing out your carpet at a doorway... (Joke! :-) )


And then also there are the sprites and elves from lightning strikes that also far exceed the LHC for power...

And we're still here...

Keep search in'
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Message 1435184 - Posted: 29 Oct 2013, 19:39:04 UTC

my understanding is that antimatter reacts with equal amounts of matter. If that is true the actual damage is quite small.
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Message 1435199 - Posted: 29 Oct 2013, 20:08:15 UTC

It also just came to mind that they're indeed working with small quantities and I also think it's great we're able to experiment on a quantum scale whereas that's not possible on an astronomical level. I just hope that, even on such a small level, they know what they're doing...
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Message 1435233 - Posted: 29 Oct 2013, 20:56:24 UTC

The Book Earth by David Brin.

A Masterwork.

Speaks to your question.

600 pages of Brilliance.

Corn 'it'
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Message 1435262 - Posted: 29 Oct 2013, 21:36:06 UTC

Now that would be science 'fiction' if you will.
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Message 1435281 - Posted: 29 Oct 2013, 22:05:54 UTC - in response to Message 1435262.

I agree with Julie. Cern, also stands for Nuclear Research. The instruments used at CERN are purpose-built particle accelerators and detectors. Accelerators boost beams of particles to high energies before the beams are made to collide with each other or with stationary targets. Detectors observe and record the results of these collisions.

If anything goes wrong they could blow up Meyrin, Switzerland. You never know.

"Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong". Muphry's law.


The universe wastes nothing, it's simply transferred.





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Message 1435291 - Posted: 29 Oct 2013, 22:18:11 UTC

That's exactly what I was thinking this morning! Thanx Lynn:)
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Message 1435303 - Posted: 29 Oct 2013, 22:40:28 UTC - in response to Message 1435199.

... I just hope that, even on such a small level, they know what they're doing...

'course they don't... That's why we're experimenting!


Keep search in'
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Message 1435309 - Posted: 29 Oct 2013, 22:47:50 UTC - in response to Message 1435281.

... If anything goes wrong they could blow up Meyrin, Switzerland. You never know. ...

It already has and a section has blown up. Spectacular electromagnetic torque that tore apart substantial concrete mounts. We also lost most of the world's supply of helium in a few minutes...

Then, that is merely just one of the hazards of the world's largest superconducting electromagnet...

Spectacular world leading engineering and science and who knows what else!


Keep search in'
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Message 1435315 - Posted: 29 Oct 2013, 22:55:15 UTC - in response to Message 1435309.

... If anything goes wrong they could blow up Meyrin, Switzerland. You never know. ...

It already has and a section has blown up. Spectacular electromagnetic torque that tore apart substantial concrete mounts. We also lost most of the world's supply of helium in a few minutes...

Then, that is merely just one of the hazards of the world's largest superconducting electromagnet...

Spectacular world leading engineering and science and who knows what else!


Keep search in'
Martin



Thank You, Martin!
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Message 1435361 - Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 0:48:09 UTC - in response to Message 1435262.

Now that would be science 'fiction' if you will.

He is very much into fiction. ;)

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Message 1435467 - Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 6:31:34 UTC

There was an interesting documentary regarding the continuing work at Cern on one of the Discovery channels this week and they touched on the subject of potential disasters that could be triggered by the most energetic experiments. Safety is a big concern with the scientists and engineers at Cern and they do acknowledge the possibility of certain kinds of explosions mostly triggered by the loss of coolant that provides the conditions that allow the superconducting magnetic fields to contain the particle stream. That is what happened with the explosion that shut down the project a few years ago. Not much chance of annihilation of the planet or even the region but a failure could destroy the collider and kill several hard to replace scientists.
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Message 1435492 - Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 7:35:32 UTC
Last modified: 30 Oct 2013, 8:01:59 UTC

They are checking all the electrical connections in the 27 km long cavity before restarting LHC in 2015 and bringing its energy to the maximum of 14 GeV from the 7 GeV it was running. Meanwhile we at Test4Theory@home are still running simulations at 7 GeV, with no danger to anyone.
Tullio
PS We just simulated one trillion events. Look at the T4T home page. We were congratulated by CERN.
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Message 1435654 - Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 17:26:36 UTC

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/57093/Existentialist_Cat_The_LHC__amp__Strangelets_Explained/ ;o)

I'm no scientist but from what I understand of the thing, people off-site are many orders of magnitude more likely to be killed in a car accident than they are from some incident at CERN. Yet, I know of no one who sits up worrying at night about getting in a car crash.
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Message 1435661 - Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 17:53:07 UTC - in response to Message 1435654.

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/57093/Existentialist_Cat_The_LHC__amp__Strangelets_Explained/ ;o)

I'm no scientist but from what I understand of the thing, people off-site are many orders of magnitude more likely to be killed in a car accident than they are from some incident at CERN. Yet, I know of no one who sits up worrying at night about getting in a car crash.



I'm sure those people over there know what they're doing but one 'incident' there would have a much bigger effect than just an 'ordinary' car crash, that's for sure!
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Message 1435663 - Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 18:00:54 UTC
Last modified: 30 Oct 2013, 18:01:46 UTC

My thesis adviser,a brilliant young scientist, died in a car crash in 1972. Even a serious accident in a tunnel underground like that of the LHC would have no dire consequences for people on the surface. There are no nuclear materials in the LHC. About 100 km from where I live there are ten or 20 nuclear warheads in an Italian air base but they are American. Any accident there could have much worse consequences.
Tullio
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Message 1435703 - Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 19:47:30 UTC - in response to Message 1435661.

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/57093/Existentialist_Cat_The_LHC__amp__Strangelets_Explained/ ;o)

I'm no scientist but from what I understand of the thing, people off-site are many orders of magnitude more likely to be killed in a car accident than they are from some incident at CERN. Yet, I know of no one who sits up worrying at night about getting in a car crash.



I'm sure those people over there know what they're doing but one 'incident' there would have a much bigger effect than just an 'ordinary' car crash, that's for sure!


I am just trying to understand exactly what it is that you're afraid of. Earth is exposed to far more energetic particles every day than can ever be produced by CERN.

The only danger is to the taxpayer's pocketbook. (Fundamental physics is an expensive obsession.)

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